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Crackpottery And Dunning-Kruger Effect


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#1 VictorMedvil

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Posted 10 June 2020 - 08:05 AM

From what I understand the reason we have cranks is because of the Dunning-Kruger effect, what do you think it is that makes stupid people think they are smart with such arrogance to know nothing about the subject and think they are smarter than Einstein?

 

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Edited by VictorMedvil, 10 June 2020 - 08:06 AM.

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#2 montgomery

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Posted 18 June 2020 - 09:58 AM

I'll give you my opinion but first I'll narrow the question down to Christian beliefs.

Childhood indoctrination is the key to holding even the most intelligent adults to being  believers. 

 

For the religious believers, you'll have to consider that explanation for other cases of stupidity if you want to consider my answer. 

It doesn't cover all instances of stupidity but it likely covers a lot of it.



#3 VictorMedvil

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 03:26 AM

I just wanted to say, I hate ****ing cranks for this very reason, because of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Getting a crank to admit he is wrong is like pulling teeth because of them being up on Mt. Stupid. They make me so mad I cannot see straight sometimes, as they insult everyone's intelligence around them and insult science with their crank theories, acting like they are smarter than everyone else, people that spent their entire lives studying science. Personally, it makes me Furious!


Edited by VictorMedvil, 29 June 2020 - 03:51 AM.


#4 montgomery

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 11:16 AM

I just wanted to say, I hate ****ing cranks for this very reason, because of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Getting a crank to admit he is wrong is like pulling teeth because of them being up on Mt. Stupid. They make me so mad I cannot see straight sometimes, as they insult everyone's intelligence around them and insult science with their crank theories, acting like they are smarter than everyone else, people that spent their entire lives studying science. Personally, it makes me Furious!

See my explanation for why it's not always stupidity. If you can't address that then we can't even begin to discuss your pet peeve. And if you can't accept there are other explanations for what people think other than being 'stupid', then why would any rational person care what you think?



#5 Thoth101

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Posted 29 June 2020 - 10:00 PM

I'll give you my opinion but first I'll narrow the question down to Christian beliefs.

Childhood indoctrination is the key to holding even the most intelligent adults to being  believers. 

 

For the religious believers, you'll have to consider that explanation for other cases of stupidity if you want to consider my answer. 

It doesn't cover all instances of stupidity but it likely covers a lot of it.

Adding on that and we aren't only indoctrinated by religious beliefs but political beliefs also. For one example many people still think the FED is part of the US Gov when it is a separate entity. That is just one example of the many. Or many believe that the US is actually free.



#6 montgomery

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 10:39 AM

Adding on that and we aren't only indoctrinated by religious beliefs but political beliefs also. For one example many people still think the FED is part of the US Gov when it is a separate entity. That is just one example of the many. Or many believe that the US is actually free.

Well, you've made a decent point on the US not being free. Why didn't you join in and help me prove the point when I was debating the issue with GAHD?

You Americans need to get over the flagwaving and patriotism and just start accepting that you're being taken to the cleaners. Pretty well everything you say is admitting that but you're not connecting the dots yet. Remember how you think that America had no other choices? 

 

You've made my point for me albeit accidentally. Now you'll have to say that other countries are no more free, or something like that?



#7 GAHD

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 11:31 AM

Well, you've made a decent point on the US not being free. Why didn't you join in and help me prove the point when I was debating the issue with GAHD?

You Americans need to get over the flagwaving and patriotism and just start accepting that you're being taken to the cleaners. Pretty well everything you say is admitting that but you're not connecting the dots yet. Remember how you think that America had no other choices? 

 

You've made my point for me albeit accidentally. Now you'll have to say that other countries are no more free, or something like that?

Not to put words in Vic's mouth, but...Probably because most of your arguments appear to be before the slope of enlightenment and before the valley of despair.

The USA has more freedom objectively, both coded in the Constitution and from the prevailing cultural systems. Seriously, compare the Constitutions of Canada vs USA. There's a big difference, particularly in the 1982 act. While both countries are suffering from the bloat, consolodation and failures all government invariably gravitates to; only ONE of the constitutions actively tells the populous to be ready to flip the table and enshrines the method of doing that. 

 



#8 montgomery

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 12:17 PM

GAHD said:

 

Not to put words in Vic's mouth, but...Probably because most of your arguments appear to be before the slope of enlightenment and before the valley of despair.

 

Thanks for your opinion, it's better than silence on the issues, even though it's non-specific on any of my arguments and so has little meaning. Yeah, I know you're busy but that's the price you have to pay.

 

 

 

The USA has more freedom objectively, both coded in the Constitution and from the prevailing cultural systems. Seriously, compare the Constitutions of Canada vs USA. There's a big difference, particularly in the 1982 act. While both countries are suffering from the bloat, consolodation and failures all government invariably gravitates to; only ONE of the constitutions actively tells the populous to be ready to flip the table and enshrines the method of doing that.

 

I think your Constitution may be superior to Canada's in some ways. I've heard it said quite a few times. If you can find the time, we could discuss together the points on how the US only pretends to live by it's Constitution. I would offer the example of how everybody is supposed to be born equal, (is that in your Constitution?), and it doesn't work out that way.

 

So if you find time, refer back to those two links I posted for you. One on 'quality of life', and then when you didn't like that one, the one on 'freedom', and I'll be here to follow up.

 

Thank you so far for allowing me to post on your forum and have fun with everybody! 

 

Breifly, on Victor. He calls people stupid when he should be trying to understand that some people have different opinions than his. He's yet to provide a good example of how I'm, or we, are stupid. 


Edited by montgomery, 02 July 2020 - 12:20 PM.


#9 GAHD

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 01:29 PM


Thanks for your opinion, it's better than silence on the issues, even though it's non-specific on any of my arguments and so has little meaning. Yeah, I know you're busy but that's the price you have to pay.

 

I think your Constitution may be superior to Canada's in some ways. I've heard it said quite a few times. If you can find the time, we could discuss together the points on how the US only pretends to live by it's Constitution. I would offer the example of how everybody is supposed to be born equal, (is that in your Constitution?), and it doesn't work out that way.

 

So if you find time, refer back to those two links I posted for you. One on 'quality of life', and then when you didn't like that one, the one on 'freedom', and I'll be here to follow up.

 

Thank you so far for allowing me to post on your forum and have fun with everybody! 

 

Breifly, on Victor. He calls people stupid when he should be trying to understand that some people have different opinions than his. He's yet to provide a good example of how I'm, or we, are stupid. 

We share the same Constitution. I find it REALLY hard to think that you can't get it through your skull that I'm Canadian, like you. I just live in central canada while you live in the lower BC area. If I can keep that in my skull, the fact that you cannot do likewise indicates a severe mental deficiency in you.

It's probably selective memory like that that makes you such a left-wing person: inconvenient facts are simply tossed off like water from a duck's back. Not a good thing, and again a perfect example of the public education system failing to actually teach you concrete thinking skills. I mean, its obviously not YOUR fault that your communication is incoherent so it must have been all your teachers failing to teach.



#10 A-wal

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 02:59 PM

It's probably selective memory like that that makes you such a left-wing person: inconvenient facts are simply tossed off like water from a duck's back. Not a good thing, and again a perfect example of the public education system failing to actually teach you concrete thinking skills. I mean, its obviously not YOUR fault that your communication is incoherent so it must have been all your teachers failing to teach.

Wow, the mods here are such damn trolls!

 

Would you like me to show you the data on how left-leaning political stances tend to be directly correlated to how formally educated a person is?

Not that being generally of a more highly educated background automatically validates the left but it does make a complete mockery of your point.



#11 GAHD

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:13 PM

Wow, the mods here are such damn trolls!

 

Would you like me to show you the data on how left-leaning political stances tend to be directly correlated to how formally educated a person is?

Not that being generally of a more highly educated background automatically validates the left but it does make a complete mockery of your point.

My point is that I've directly mentioned to that user no less than 3 times in the past 2 weeks to them that I'm Canadian, and at least twice the area of Canada I'm from. They've even directly quoted me pointing that out, then 6 lines later discarded that and treaded me as an American in the very same post. School MUST have failed to imprint concrete thinking skills.

I understand that people who are university grads (Particularly in social studies) are more likely to be liberals, the same way that people with a net-positive financial situation are more likely to be conservatives. Correlation != causation though...


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#12 A-wal

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:21 PM

My point is that I've directly mentioned to that user no less than 3 times in the past 2 weeks to them that I'm Canadian, and at least twice the area of Canada I'm from. They've even directly quoted me pointing that out, then 6 lines later discarded that and treaded me as an American in the very same post. School MUST have failed to imprint concrete thinking skills.

How do you know he didn't get hit on the head? :)

 

I understand that people who are university grads (Particularly in social studies) are more likely to be liberals, the same way that people with a net-positive financial situation are more likely to be conservatives. Correlation != causation though...

But that would mean that there can't be much of a correlation between university grads and people in a net-positive financial situation? You heard it here kids, uni education is worthless.



#13 GAHD

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:30 PM

How do you know he didn't get hit on the head? :)

 

But that would mean that there can't be much of a correlation between university grads and people in a net-positive financial situation? You heard it here kids, uni education is worthless.

Usually no. Usually university grads are net-negative (student loans) and remain so for a long time. They usually become net-positive well-later in life, and like most older people and net-positive people become conservative. That's again a correlation metric.

The causation of it I'd think is that people with "something to lose" (net-positive) want to keep it so vote "less tax less government meddling in my property" and people who are "in debt" (Net-negative) want "more handouts and more control of that-person-I'm-jealous-of's property."  That's only my personal thoughts on it though. I might be on Mt stupid there.



#14 A-wal

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 03:44 PM

Usually no. Usually university grads are net-negative (student loans) and remain so for a long time. They usually become net-positive well-later in life, and like most older people and net-positive people become conservative. That's again a correlation metric.

The causation of it I'd think is that people with "something to lose" (net-positive) want to keep it so vote "less tax less government meddling in my property" and people who are "in debt" (Net-negative) want "more handouts and more control of that-person-I'm-jealous-of's property."  That's only my personal thoughts on it though. I might be on Mt stupid there.

No you're not, that's obvious. People tend to want what's best for themselves and this trumps what they think is right often enough for the wealthy to think that less taxes is what's right and the poor to think that more benefits is what's right.

 

People who want less taxes consider benefits to be taking what's theirs and people who want more benefits consider people on high wages to be taking what's theirs. It all comes down to whether you think that who gets what is done fairly so people will obviously favour what works best for them.



#15 montgomery

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Posted 02 July 2020 - 06:15 PM

We share the same Constitution. I find it REALLY hard to think that you can't get it through your skull that I'm Canadian, like you. I just live in central canada while you live in the lower BC area. If I can keep that in my skull, the fact that you cannot do likewise indicates a severe mental deficiency in you.

 

 

I think it's because I understood that you were a Canadian living and working in the US, and maybe that's because I didn't pay much attention to what you said after you started the childish insulting behaviour.

 

Or if you prefer, I'm just stupid.

 

Can I still be a leftie if I'm a retired person who is worth a bit less than 2 million? I think I can because I'm not an American who thinks the poor and middle class are trying to steal all my money. 

 

I vote Liberal so is that leftist? I think it's still middle of the road because the only thing that's right of me is the batsh-t crazy fascists who want to make our health care the same as America's failed system.

 

I mean really, who would promote that kind of evil except an American?

Which reminds me GAHD. .



#16 VictorMedvil

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Posted 03 July 2020 - 01:57 AM

Well, you've made a decent point on the US not being free. Why didn't you join in and help me prove the point when I was debating the issue with GAHD?

You Americans need to get over the flagwaving and patriotism and just start accepting that you're being taken to the cleaners. Pretty well everything you say is admitting that but you're not connecting the dots yet. Remember how you think that America had no other choices? 

 

You've made my point for me albeit accidentally. Now you'll have to say that other countries are no more free, or something like that?

See what you don't understand not living in the US is we know the system is broken but because of the military strength of the government we cannot do anything about it.(Valley of Despair) There is nothing we can do about the military strength of the US however we can try to change it from within along with this government is still better than China and Russia as long as you don't oppose it they won't do anything to hurt you(Slope of Enlightenment). If you get into a position of leadership in the US you can affect changes you want via bribery quite easily line their pockets and they obey like minions.(Guru Status)


Edited by VictorMedvil, 03 July 2020 - 02:01 AM.

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#17 Thoth101

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Posted 03 July 2020 - 02:36 AM

See what you don't understand not living in the US is we know the system is broken but because of the military strength of the government we cannot do anything about it.(Valley of Despair) There is nothing we can do about the military strength of the US however we can try to change it from within along with this government is still better than China and Russia as long as you don't oppose it they won't do anything to hurt you(Slope of Enlightenment). If you get into a position of leadership in the US you can affect changes you want via bribery quite easily line their pockets and they obey like minions.(Guru Status)

Very good points Victor. Although I kind of see our government losing power and the corporations and technocrats getting more and more power. Which is not good at all because these corporations don't follow any kind of constitution. Not to mention it is a revolving door between corporations and government. How do you even fight a global technocracy as this world is becoming. As Bush said in the 90's there will be New World Order. And here it is staring us right in the face. The really sad thing is this Technocracies blueprint is of the way China's government is run.

 

Maybe the really only thing we can do is start educating the US military. I mean most Veterans know, but while you are in the military you really don't know much.


Edited by Thoth101, 03 July 2020 - 02:38 AM.