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On Einstein's Aether - The Way Forward For General Relativity


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#35 Dubbelosix

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 10:45 AM

I would listen to you if I thought you knew what you are talking about, but since you don't, I won't.

 

He4PD.gif

 

 

 

Phasehe3log.gif

 

 

 

The reason for the different behavior of 4He and 3He is quantum mechanics. 4He is a boson. The appearance of the superfluid phase in 4He is related to Bose condensation, where a macroscopic fraction of the atoms is in the lowest-energy one-particle state. 3He is a fermion (like electron) and it is forbidden by the Pauli exclusion principle that more than one fermion is in the same one-particle state. The superfluidity arises from formation of weakly bound pairs of fermions, so called Cooper pairs. The pairs behave as bosons. In the superfluid state there is a macroscopic occupation of a single Cooper pair state.

 

Link: here

 

But, don't let that stop you from carrying on  :good: 

 

Of course I know what I am talking about, I wouldn't parrot this stuff if I didn't.  zero point temperatures are unattainable, a classical phase transition from liquid to solid is not a true case of a frozen system. Only amateurs could get this wrong, like you. 


Edited by OceanBreeze, 05 September 2019 - 11:39 AM.


#36 OceanBreeze

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 11:38 AM

You might want to consider reading the site rules before posting.

 

 

Rude and offensive behavior will not tolerated. The staff reserves the right to decide what behavior is deemed offensive, and this rule applies to all areas of the site including private messages.

 

I consider your comment about puny little mind to be rude and offensive.

 

So, what I will do, this time only, is delete that part of your post, for your sake.

 

If you continue to be rude and offensive, I will delete your entire post.

 

If you still continue, I will delete YOU.


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#37 VictorMedvil

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 04:57 PM

No, because you can remove all the visible matter and energy from an area of space and still detect zero point fluctuations. 

Ya, I am going to have to do some reading about Zero Point Energies before I comment about this anymore, I am not personally well versed about the dynamics of the Zero Point Energy itself, but my understanding is that you cannot have energy without a field giving rise to it.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 05 September 2019 - 04:58 PM.


#38 exchemist

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 01:51 AM

I would listen to you if I thought you knew what you are talking about, but since you don't, I won't.

 

He4PD.gif

 

 

 

Phasehe3log.gif

 

 

 

The reason for the different behavior of 4He and 3He is quantum mechanics. 4He is a boson. The appearance of the superfluid phase in 4He is related to Bose condensation, where a macroscopic fraction of the atoms is in the lowest-energy one-particle state. 3He is a fermion (like electron) and it is forbidden by the Pauli exclusion principle that more than one fermion is in the same one-particle state. The superfluidity arises from formation of weakly bound pairs of fermions, so called Cooper pairs. The pairs behave as bosons. In the superfluid state there is a macroscopic occupation of a single Cooper pair state.

 

Link: here

 

But, don't let that stop you from carrying on  :good: 

Nice phase diagrams. 

 

For any readers who may not know, the abbreviations "hcp" and "bcc" refer to the packing arrangements of the atoms, "hexagonal close packed" and "body centred cube", respectively. 



#39 Dubbelosix

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 04:31 AM

Ya, I am going to have to do some reading about Zero Point Energies before I comment about this anymore, I am not personally well versed about the dynamics of the Zero Point Energy itself, but my understanding is that you cannot have energy without a field giving rise to it.

 

Zero point energy is a field, it is just the ground state of a field. 



#40 VictorMedvil

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Posted 06 September 2019 - 09:50 AM

Zero point energy is a field, it is just the ground state of a field. 

 

So you are saying there are amount of energy in a field even without the property present, that is true in gravitational and Electromagnetic fields as the range of them is infinite thus even matter or charge from one side of the universe will have some attraction to another object with a similar property thus it could be viewed as a static amount of energy gained, but at what point do you consider to be the ground state? The Magnitude of such a long distance field would still vary based on distance, Even Higg's like fields require a specific amount of energy dumped into them before they take effect and create something such as mass or to create a charge the mass of a electron or Up/Down Quark is required, so are you saying that these ground states act on smaller particles than Quarks and Leptons? What are the properties of a ground state particle, I guess I am asking? If they do exist then the only effect you may see is the effect of gravity as that effects all energy-mass in the universe.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 06 September 2019 - 10:03 AM.


#41 Dubbelosix

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 08:46 AM

So you are saying there are amount of energy in a field even without the property present, that is true in gravitational and Electromagnetic fields as the range of them is infinite thus even matter or charge from one side of the universe will have some attraction to another object with a similar property thus it could be viewed as a static amount of energy gained, but at what point do you consider to be the ground state? The Magnitude of such a long distance field would still vary based on distance, Even Higg's like fields require a specific amount of energy dumped into them before they take effect and create something such as mass or to create a charge the mass of a electron or Up/Down Quark is required, so are you saying that these ground states act on smaller particles than Quarks and Leptons? What are the properties of a ground state particle, I guess I am asking? If they do exist then the only effect you may see is the effect of gravity as that effects all energy-mass in the universe.

 

What I am saying, is that the fundamental forces, all fields of nature, but not necessarily gravity or even magnetism, all are described by a quantization of a field. These fields cannot ever be ''frozen'' in a classical sense, meaning it doesn't matter how much energy you pump into a refrigerator, it is not possible for a system to exist at zero point temperatures because there is always residual motion. 



#42 VictorMedvil

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Posted 07 September 2019 - 09:57 AM

What I am saying, is that the fundamental forces, all fields of nature, but not necessarily gravity or even magnetism, all are described by a quantization of a field. These fields cannot ever be ''frozen'' in a classical sense, meaning it doesn't matter how much energy you pump into a refrigerator, it is not possible for a system to exist at zero point temperatures because there is always residual motion. 

 

Which that part makes sense that you can never reach absolute zero within even a vacuum but I would still like to know about the "State" of the particles left behind, what exists at that little energy if it is not photons, electrons or quarks? I would not think they would even have the energy-mass to attain the lowest energies of the bosons or fermions being their rest mass or in the case of a photon their frequency equivalent Momentum. You are speaking about the Quantization of the field, but however has this left over energy been quantified.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 07 September 2019 - 10:05 AM.


#43 Dubbelosix

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 04:56 AM

These fluctuations exist as virtual particles. They are different to normal ordinary matter. 



#44 Flummoxed

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 05:45 AM

These fluctuations exist as virtual particles. They are different to normal ordinary matter. 

 

This sounds like what I SED earlier, zero point energy of the vacuum is likely what drives the expansion of space. You mentioned radiation pressure as a cause of expansion on one of your previous threads. We have the idea of virtual particles and waves, could those virtual particles popping into and out of existence cause waves and a pressure. The calculated energy of the vacuum is enormous and doesnt appear to fit what is observed? a bit of a puzzle apparently https://en.wikipedia...i/Vacuum_energy

 

Edit cosmological constant problem, isnt even constant it seems :)

 

See 2.1 http://www.calphysics.org/problems.pdf


Edited by Flummoxed, 09 September 2019 - 07:21 AM.


#45 exchemist

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 07:41 AM

This sounds like what I SED earlier,

 

Arf arf. :)



#46 Flummoxed

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 09:57 AM

Arf arf. :)

 

You enjoyed my little pun :)



#47 exchemist

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 03:01 PM

You enjoyed my little pun :)

Yes. But don't get SED on the brain. It is not accepted science by any means. None of these hidden variable theories is taken very seriously at the moment, according to what I read. I don't think Ana Wossername et al have yet put forward any way to test their hypotheses. And I would not be surprised to find that, rather as with the Casimir effect, it may turn out that their way of looking at it and the conventional way are simply equivalent. Unfortunately I didn't study QED so I am not myself equipped to say. 



#48 GAHD

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 04:16 PM

So...at what point do you consider to be the ground state? The Magnitude of such a long distance field would still vary based on distance...What are the properties of a ground state particle, I guess I am asking?

I'd venture true ground-state would be an absence of external effects and affects. Even gravity itself seems to be an artifact of an energy/field type. A free photon outside of a well (and obviously outside of a superconducting medium) might qualify.

 

What I am saying, is that the fundamental forces, all fields of nature, but not necessarily gravity or even magnetism, all are described by a quantization of a field. These fields cannot ever be ''frozen'' in a classical sense, meaning it doesn't matter how much energy you pump into a refrigerator, it is not possible for a system to exist at zero point temperatures because there is always residual motion. 

Yeah, insulating vs Casimir forces certainly seems to be a PITA. I think it could be possible to use that very effect to fully insulate and heat pump the right kind of meta-material down to true null/void though.



#49 FreelanceScientists

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Posted 09 September 2019 - 05:14 PM

I already have all of this subject covered, only with a very different theory. Chaos in the universe results in a physical geometry situation where charge deviates from a spacial point and extends outward without any real direction to a possible point B reference. So this makes the ground state H atom a conical varying charge cloud unit. Done. Entangle would be the interconnections. This works for me.



#50 exchemist

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 01:11 AM

I already have all of this subject covered, only with a very different theory. Chaos in the universe results in a physical geometry situation where charge deviates from a spacial point and extends outward without any real direction to a possible point B reference. So this makes the ground state H atom a conical varying charge cloud unit. Done. Entangle would be the interconnections. This works for me.

Word salad.



#51 ralfcis

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Posted 10 September 2019 - 09:14 AM

Maybe XC's racist views are correct, there is a type of physics forum person with probably a mental illness which manifests itself in the spewing of word salad.  Sometimes it's thought salad, and in rare cases math salad. The latter being impossible for XC to diagnose but he tries anyway. 


Edited by ralfcis, 10 September 2019 - 09:20 AM.