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Sound And Light Speed Barriers. One Has Been Broken. Light Barrier Is Next?


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#1 rhertz

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 09:40 AM

For long time I've tried to figure out if the constancy of the speed of light at vacuum was an "universal constant", as science today assume that G, h, permittivity and permeability are alleged to be.

 

To state that some parameter poses an universal value is, at least, arrogant (IMHO).

 

I know that science need certainty to advance. At any field.

 

I can't imagine a scientist trying to go ahead with theories, backed by historical data, if he/she has doubts about fundamentals.

 

These doubts could eat them alive, freezing their thoughts in the fear to deepen the wrongness of the influencial knowledge that is currently accepted.

 

But, to talk about universal is a little too much for me. The reasons couldn't be simpler: we are living in a place within the visible universe

(not to talk about observable or, worse, real universe) that occupies a volumetric portion of one part in 1058 Earth's volumes.

 

To pretend that something discovered in our surroundings (Earth or Solar System) can be assumed to be true at every place in such

enormous place like the Hubble's universe is, falls into a narcisism and arrogance that's unforgivable.

 

The once believed as unsurpassable speed of sound barrier only needed to know a little better about several branches like aerodynamics, thermodynamics, hydrodynamics, compressibility, mechanics, etc. With a learning curve that took about 10 years,

the whole body of knowledge needed was developed, tested and put into the industrial arena.

 

Some thing happened in water whith the performance of torpedos. Almost same branch of physics applied to fluids were involved.

There was a barrier for speed under water, arround 60 Km/hr. But, at the USSR and back in the '70s, they started to think out of the

box and developed a "proper enviroment" for torpedos using air bubbles as a shell between water and the torpedo, inventing the super-cavitating torpedo, which travels at 400 Km/hr or higher (noisy yes, but it works and is lethal).

 

When I thought about the constancy of the speed of light at vacuum, decades ago, and being familiar with Maxwell theory, I only had to look at the theoretical value of the speed of light that he calculated by 1864 (incredible genius beyond human understanding), I asked myself: BUT, if somehow permittivity or permeability varies along the space, then the speed of light changes.

 

 

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In a second line of thought, I asked myself some years ago: Would be possible for a spacecraft to create its "proper" permittivity

or permeability around it, in such a way that it could work as with the sound barrier or the water barrier?

 

What if, somehow and with electromagnetic technology (undiscovered yet), the spacecraft could navigate surrounded by a field

at which (for instance) permittivity is four times lower? It would project around the spacecraft a new c' = 2c, and in this way AND preserving current theories, it would not violate relativity but EXTEND IT, so that travelling at 1.3c is OK.

 

Do any of you believe that this is a possible way? To create a "proper" ambient around the ship to travel in the outer space?

 

Several questions arise, like the energy it could require and IF the electronics within the spacecraft could be isolated from this

change, so the known behavior of this technology is preserved "indoors".

 

It would be not supraluminal speed. It would be "local subluminal speed". It would be like cheating nature. But it happened before.

 

What do you think about this?

 

Note (May 17 @ 10:11 AM Western Time)

 

I've edited this OP by dismissing two paragraphs at which I wrote about personal feelings of scientists working on

new theories, as this is subjective.

 

For the rest of this OP, I can't find any reason by which it was moved to the Strange Claims section.

 

I find it not only offensive to my freedom of thought but also I doubt about the real reasons by which this was done,

without notifying me of such a move. This idea is not different from any other ideas that I observed on the main body

of this forum, and also is backed by numerous experiments conducted in decades, at laboratories around the world,

to modify the "impedance" of the free space in different ways, to allow light to propagate at higher speeds than "c".

 

And everyone of them is related to modifications in permittivity and permeability. The differences are that the enviroment

has been circunscripted to the laboratory.

 

I've read your policy for posting, and I don't find this OP to violate any.

 

The root of my claims is HOW such parameters are defined today, after Maxwell, being that BOTH are

the only basis for the theoretical calculation of the speed of light at vacuum, c0.

 

There is nothing which forbids that mu0 = B0/H0 to be changed in a particular context. And this is the same with permittivity.

 

So, I'm reporting myself with this OP to gain your attention and to receive the due apologies for your action, besides reposting this

at its original place. You can delete this note if you do so.

 

If I don't get the due satisfaction, and being a serious person, I'm leaving this forum for good.

 

Best regards,

 

Richard.


Edited by rhertz, 17 May 2019 - 07:44 AM.


#2 Flummoxed

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Posted 15 May 2019 - 12:30 PM

Warp drive is currently science fiction. But it is amusing to think about. https://en.wikipedia...wiki/Warp_drive

 

No one knows what is at the centre of a blackhole, perhaps it is devoid of quantum fluctuations, and a wormhole exists to other places in the universe without going through space time. I have a friend who is a budding sci fi writer. His space ship generates a transient black hole in the direction he wants to go via pulsing magnetic fields, to separate virtual particles, the particles momentarily have a mini blackhole between them, before more virtual particles appear. The separated virtual particles become antimatter and matter, which are guided back into the ship as fuel, via magnetic fields. The ship ionizes air around it leaving a massive positive charge, which causes the negative earth systems of cars on earth to draw electrons out of the batteries causing them to stop and the electrics to fail. The ship also glows when the ions around it recombine with electrons. At least that is what I think he said. 

 

Quantum teleportation is achievable, perhaps in the future you could teleport a copy of yourself at c across the universe.

 

Blue shift in the CBR could cause an additional attractive force or inbalance of forces around a ship causing it to accelerate. ie any moving object might continue to accelerate until acted on by an external force due to blue shift :) in the CBR 

 

If the permeability and permittivity of free space are dependent on the CBR for instance :) or quantum foam, then in the past it is possible c might have been faster. 

 

To state c is constant everywhere is standard model BUT if it is dependant on the characteristics of space locally it might vary  https://www.livescie...t-constant.html

 

" Photons of light, as they fly through space, are captured and re-emitted by virtual particles. " this MIGHT be what limits c, a different density of quantum foam for example near a planet :) (Cahill) for example might result in slower c, conversely in a higher density more packed quantum foam c might increase beyond the current limit. 

 

Beam me up Scottie.  


Edited by Flummoxed, 16 May 2019 - 04:41 AM.


#3 Flummoxed

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 03:31 AM

I found the theory of your friend extremely funny. But, hey, no pain no gain. Science has to progress and has collateral damages. LOL!

 

Those amusing ideas were the first that popped into my head, there is more. :) You haven't explored worm holes or teleportation, ideas played with in one of Kip Thornes books :) or N dimensional creatures yet etc etc 

 

I guess the bit you highlighted in red is what you find funny, but I suspect it might be the most plausible part of his book.

 

If you think about it. > Car with insulated tyres > battery -ve terminal connected to metal chassis > Induce very large +ve charge on chassis > A battery has a ready source of electrons, which given a large enough charge can be drawn out of the battery in the opposite direction. 

 

I guess the big question is just exactly how does space work, and how can it be manipulated in any useful way ?

 

Many other alternative approaches to gravity exist, but ultimately if it is to be manipulated in any way, you need to know exactly how it works at the quantum level. 

 

With modern theories extra dimensions might exist, to explain things like entanglement. Entropic Gravity by Eric Verlinde incorporates entanglement, to explain how gravity and dark energy work. (He doesn't need dark matter either in his gravitational model, and it has been tested against a few thousand galaxies and doesn't need any dark matter) In this model degrees of entanglement between different regions of space apply. He approaches gravity from a quantum approach, which gives support to MOND.  

 

One of your papers using a a version of MOND mentioned Reg Cahills Quantum Foam approach. Quantum Loop Gravity is another approach etc etc.

 

Warp drive, might be the way to go :) If we could create a transient gravitational distortion in some way ??

New Physical laws might be discovered, that can be manipulated :) For science fiction writers, theorists etc, warp drive is easy. Just manipulate space, simple.



#4 Dubbelosix

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 03:33 AM

Light speed has been broken, in special mediums. Electrons for instance moving in superconductors will give off Cherenkov radiation which is analogous to the sonic boom, or Larmor radiation for accelerated charges.

 

It's just that light speed cannot be broken in free space. You need special physics to make it happen.



#5 Dubbelosix

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 03:42 AM

Some facts of those special conditions goes like this:

 

''Cherenkov radiation is electromagnetic radiation emitted when a charged particle passes through a dielectric medium at a speed greater than the phase velocity of light in that medium.''



#6 Flummoxed

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 04:40 AM

Some facts of those special conditions goes like this:

 

''Cherenkov radiation is electromagnetic radiation emitted when a charged particle passes through a dielectric medium at a speed greater than the phase velocity of light in that medium.''

 

The speed of light in free space is  about 2.98x108 m/s. Cherenkov radiation happens because the speed of light is slowed down in a medium to less than c. Allowing relativistic particles to exceed the speed of light in that medium. 

 

Like you say that cant happen in free space, unless maybe there is a superconducting rock floating around out there, which at near absolute zero, might not be a stupid thought. 

 

A pop science link on Cherenkov radiationhttps://www.physlink...perts/ae457.cfm

 

Edit I just noticed the link I posted above wasnt working, https://www.livescie...t-constant.html


Edited by Flummoxed, 16 May 2019 - 04:43 AM.


#7 exchemist

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 07:52 AM

The speed of light in free space is  about 2.98x108 m/s. Cherenkov radiation happens because the speed of light is slowed down in a medium to less than c. Allowing relativistic particles to exceed the speed of light in that medium. 

 

Like you say that cant happen in free space, unless maybe there is a superconducting rock floating around out there, which at near absolute zero, might not be a stupid thought. 

 

A pop science link on Cherenkov radiationhttps://www.physlink...perts/ae457.cfm

 

Edit I just noticed the link I posted above wasnt working, https://www.livescie...t-constant.html

Why do you think superconductivity would change the situation?  



#8 Flummoxed

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Posted 16 May 2019 - 08:05 AM

Why do you think superconductivity would change the situation?  

 

A Charged particle in a superconductor, or any kind of conductor, might move faster than a photon can move through the same material, and produce Cherenkov radiation.

 

Super conductivity is easiest achieved at near absolute zero, not unlike we might find in space. 

 

Any rocks bobbing about in space, will be cold. 

 

Some rocks are metals, some will be ice etc.

 

Metals passing through magnetic fields of planets etc will have currents induced in them.

 

Ice could be ionized by gamma rays.

 

and the thread is speculative :)