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Active Photon Is Against Special Relativity.

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#1 maheshkhati

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 03:23 AM

I have read some papers for example

 http://vixra.org/pdf/1302.0127v1.pdf by Hans W Giertz* 

&

http://phys.org/news...efore-seen.html

    This experiments proves that even moving with velocity C. Photons are active internally & externally for rest observer.

I think this is against Special theory of relativity because for any system moving with velocity C , time t  slows down infinitely or 1/0 or stops.

 

Means, for rest observer, photon must be dead horse. Observer will not find any action from photon internally or externally.

Why length contraction, time slow down is not get applied to photon? 



#2 OceanBreeze

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 04:37 AM

I didn’t see anything in that paper, or the experiment, to lead to your conclusion:

 

for rest observer, photon must be dead horse. Observer will not find any action from photon internally or externally.

 

As for your question:

 

Why length contraction, time slow down is not get applied to photon?

 

These things Do apply to the photon.

From the reference frame of an observer at rest (not travelling with the photon) the photon is oscillating as an electromagnetic radiation, changing between E and H fields as it propagates through space.

IF an observer could travel at light speed (none can) the photon would be length contracted to 0 length and time dilated to 0 time, in fact, the photon would cease to exist. This is one reason why a reference frame travelling at the speed of light is not even meaningful to talk about. There can be no observer there, and a photon cannot observe itself!

 

 

 



#3 maheshkhati

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 05:05 AM

You are speaking about Maxwell wave equation not about particle nature of light i.e. photon.  This particle is moving with you with velocity C.

In 1st paper scientist proved that photon is made from +ve & -ve charge cloud moving with velocity C  & also revolving.

in 2nd paper moving photons with velocity C when comes out from medium & reacting with other photon to produce photonic molecule.

remember in both cases photon (particle) is particle, moving with observer with velocity C & active & occupies some moving space reacting with other moving photon. 

1)Quantum physics is very clear, every moving particle associated with wave but as particle it obeys Special relativity rules like time dilution. For example, some particle life time increases due to time dilution.

then why not photon is not a dead particle & occupies zero space for observer of the experiment?  


Edited by maheshkhati, 18 November 2016 - 05:12 AM.


#4 333

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 02:03 PM

Free electrons in a conductor synchronized vibrate, produce vibrating EM field. Other free electrons in other conductors follow the vibrating energy/EM force and vibrate at the same frequency. 

The mechanism of EM radiation. Maxwell is busted. http://www.badscienc...php?f=3&t=41156



#5 exchemist

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Posted 19 November 2016 - 03:49 PM

Free electrons in a conductor synchronized vibrate, produce vibrating EM field. Other free electrons in other conductors follow the vibrating energy/EM force and vibrate at the same frequency. 

The mechanism of EM radiation. Maxwell is busted. http://www.badscienc...php?f=3&t=41156

Oh Christ this is jcc. He's been banned from two science forums I was a member of. And he is still talking crap. :sad:  



#6 maheshkhati

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 02:15 AM

When we call photon then it is particle nature of light, whose total energy is kinetic energy (This is already mathematically proved)

This kinetic energy can be use to run small very light weight fly wheel by using momentum of photons. (already experimentally happen) 

So, very clear photon is a particle moving with velocity C whose total energy is kinetic energy.


Edited by maheshkhati, 21 November 2016 - 03:15 AM.


#7 OceanBreeze

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 03:37 AM

No doubt, I am wasting time and effort here, but someone will benefit?

 

The fact that a photon has momentum in no way implies that it has particle mass.

 

A lot of confusion arises because many people who are not physicists think that the equation for momentum is:  p = mv

 

That solution is a particular solution for a particle that has mass. It is not the general solution for momentum.

 

When a particle has no mass, the particular solution for momentum is: p = E/c

That is, Energy divided by speed of light.

 

These two equations are perfectly consistent with each other because they are particular solutions to the more general equation for momentum:

 

P = Ev/c^2

 

To see how the particular solutions derive from the general:

In the case of a particle with mass, E = mc^2

 

Therefore, p = mc^2 v / c^2 = mv, so p = mv for a particle with mass

 

In a case of a massless particle, v = c

 

So: p = Ec/c^2 = E/c

 

This agrees with De Broglies’ equation: p = h/l , where h is the Planck constant and l is lambda (wavelength)

Photon energy  E = hc/l,

So for a massless particle momentum p = h/l = E/c

 

Everything is consistent and no contradiction.

 

When physicists say a photon is a particle, they mean it behaves as a particle and it also behaves like a wave. What it really is, is energy, and none can be properly called kinetic energy while in the possession of the photon.  It is electromagnetic energy, which can be converted into other kinds of energy, including kinetic, through interactions with other molecules of matter.

 

 


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#8 exchemist

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 03:50 AM

No doubt, I am wasting time and effort here, but someone will benefit?

 

The fact that a photon has momentum in no way implies that it has particle mass.

 

A lot of confusion arises because many people who are not physicists think that the equation for momentum is:  p = mv

 

That solution is a particular solution for a particle that has mass. It is not the general solution for momentum.

 

When a particle has no mass, the particular solution for momentum is: p = E/c

That is, Energy divided by speed of light.

 

These two equations are perfectly consistent with each other because they are particular solutions to the more general equation for momentum:

 

P = Ev/c^2

 

To see how the particular solutions derive from the general:

In the case of a particle with mass, E = mc^2

 

Therefore, p = mc^2 v / c^2 = mv, so p = mv for a particle with mass

 

In a case of a massless particle, v = c

 

So: p = Ec/c^2 = E/c

 

This agrees with De Broglies’ equation: p = h/l , where h is the Planck constant and l is lambda (wavelength)

Photon energy  E = hc/l,

So for a massless particle momentum p = h/l = E/c

 

Everything is consistent and no contradiction.

 

When physicists say a photon is a particle, they mean it behaves as a particle and it also behaves like a wave. What it really is, is energy, and none can be properly called kinetic energy while in the possession of the photon.  It is electromagnetic energy, which can be converted into other kinds of energy, including kinetic, through interactions with other molecules of matter.

What a succinct explanation! 



#9 maheshkhati

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 05:11 AM

Now, I am giving one link to you, which says that when photon is traveling with velocity c.

Total energy of photon is kinetic energy

 

http://www.greatians...y of photon.htm

 

 

When the M&E and Kong vectors of photon are perpendicular, the photon is traveling at the speed of light. The deform angle of M&E vectors is zero. Therefore, the total energy of photon becomes the kinetic energy, where eq. WD.1.2 becomes

 

E = Kp = hf = pc                                                                                … eq. WD.1.5

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(I only consider when photon behaves as particle as experiment require.)

I am not against your mathematics at all but see

E=p.C

means, photon is in existence when its velocity C (moving) with respect to you.  

 

Can you even consider non moving photon?

Now, talk about above experiments which is important.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Point 2:-

In 2nd experiment, photons inter into the medium, interacting with each other forming photonic molecules & again coming out interacting with each other. 

    & in 1st experiment, scientist proved that photon is made from +ve & -ve charge cloud moving with velocity C  & also revolving.

In both experiment, photon is moving with velocity C but still active & interacting internally or with each other.

Any system moving with you with velocity C can not be active as time slow down infinitely.

 

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Edited by maheshkhati, 21 November 2016 - 06:14 AM.


#10 333

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:23 AM

Light is not wave or particle but vibrating EM force.

 

 the electrons on your screen are connected with the electrons on your eyes right now and share their vibrating force so you can read my comment.

all atoms are constantly vibrating due to kinetic energy carried by charged particles within.

all atoms are connected by electrostatic force f=kq1q2/rr.

the mechanism of light/photon/em wave/radiant energy.



#11 333

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:32 AM

After you understood atom/matter and light/energy, you will know the sun is not a nuclear reactor. 

 

If earth temperature suddenly becomes as hot as the sun, all nuclear fuel will be ignite instantly, am I right?



#12 OceanBreeze

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:39 AM

Now, I am giving one link to you, which says that when photon is traveling with velocity c.

Total energy of photon is kinetic energy

 

http://www.greatians...y of photon.htm

 

 

When the M&E and Kong vectors of photon are perpendicular, the photon is traveling at the speed of light. The deform angle of M&E vectors is zero. Therefore, the total energy of photon becomes the kinetic energy, where eq. WD.1.2 becomes

 

E = Kp = hf = pc                                                                                … eq. WD.1.5

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

(I only consider when photon behaves as particle as experiment require.)

I am not against your mathematics at all but see

E=p.C

means, photon is in existence when its velocity C (moving) with respect to you.  

 

Can you even consider non moving photon?

Now, talk about above experiments which is important.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Point 2:-

In 2nd experiment, photons inter into the medium, interacting with each other forming photonic molecules & again coming out interacting with each other. 

    & in 1st experiment, scientist proved that photon is made from +ve & -ve charge cloud moving with velocity C  & also revolving.

In both experiment, photon is moving with velocity C but still active & interacting internally or with each other.

Any system moving with you with velocity C can not be active as time slow down infinitely.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I see! You are referencing a blog that belongs to someone named Kok-Haw Kong.

In that blog, he introduces such esoteric novelties as The Kong Vector , The Kong Equation , and The Kong Atom Model, all of which are evidently Mister Kong’s own Personal Physics and not found anywhere else.

While it is all very interesting, it is also all very questionable and certainly not peer-reviewed physics. Until Mr. Kong has his work peer reviewed, I will ignore it.

 

 


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#13 OceanBreeze

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 09:43 AM

Light is not wave or particle but vibrating EM force.

 

 the electrons on your screen are connected with the electrons on your eyes right now and share their vibrating force so you can read my comment.

all atoms are constantly vibrating due to kinetic energy carried by charged particles within.

all atoms are connected by electrostatic force f=kq1q2/rr.

the mechanism of light/photon/em wave/radiant energy.

 

Almost all correct!

 

The term Kinetic Energy has one accepted meaning in physics: It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. If the body begins from rest, KE = 1/2mv^2.

 

Since photons have no mass, are never at rest, and travel at constant velocity, the term Kinetic Energy does not apply to them. Photons have energy in the form of electromagnetic radiation. The energy of a photon is given by the equation E = hf, where E is energy, h is Planck's constant, and f is frequency.


Edited by OceanBreeze, 21 November 2016 - 10:18 AM.

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#14 333

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 10:04 AM

Almost all correct!

 

The term Kinetic Energy has one accepted meaning in physics: It is defined as the work needed to accelerate a body of a given mass from rest to its stated velocity. If the body begins from rest, KE = mv.

 

Since photons have no mass, are never at rest, and travel at constant velocity, the term Kinetic Energy does not apply to them. Photons have energy in the form of electromagnetic radiation. The energy of a photon is given by the equation E = hf, where E is energy, h is Planck's constant, and f is frequency.

There is NO such thing as photon. Electrons repel each other with the force f=kqq/rr, that force is the carrier of radiant energy/light. 

 

put strong magnet in both hands, same pole face each other, feel the repelling force/tension? yes.

now move 1 hand back and forth to the other hand, what do you feel?

that is the mechanism of light/em wave/photon/quantum.

instead of magnets, all electrons in the space are connected by electrostatic force f=kee/rr. they repel each other all the time. any 1 is moving, all other electrons share the force according to distance.



#15 333

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 10:08 AM

Electrons change energy level and emit photon is total BS.  What energy level? What is energy? How electrons change energy level? How many photons can an electron emit per second? What frequency? What mechanism?



#16 OceanBreeze

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 10:23 AM

There is NO such thing as photon. Electrons repel each other with the force f=kqq/rr, that force is the carrier of radiant energy/light. 

 

put strong magnet in both hands, same pole face each other, feel the repelling force/tension? yes.

now move 1 hand back and forth to the other hand, what do you feel?

that is the mechanism of light/em wave/photon/quantum.

instead of magnets, all electrons in the space are connected by electrostatic force f=kee/rr. they repel each other all the time. any 1 is moving, all other electrons share the force according to distance.

 

OK. You are obviously more advanced than I am. :bow:


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#17 333

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 10:27 AM

After you understood atom/matter and light/energy, you will know the sun is not a nuclear reactor. 

 

If earth temperature suddenly becomes as hot as the sun, all nuclear fuel will be ignite instantly, am I right?

Hot plasma on the sun surface able to bend light just like atmosphere on earth. Gravity cannot bend light. Think about it. Don't just believe anything science told you.





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