Queso Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 i was reading this extremely complicated book called "wider than the sky" that somebody gave to me. there were many things i did not understand clearly in this book, in fact i gave up on it. if any of you have read this book, you will totally understand why i gave up. :rant: in it, there was a quote that melted my mind. "we are concious automata" what exactly does this mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harzburgite Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 We are, arguably, controlled by processes occuring without our conscious intervention. Research (using MRI scanning as I recall) has shown that when we make a conscious decision it is in fact triggered by activity in the lower brain milliseconds ahead of the 'decision' in the cortex. If this extends to all or most decisions then the conscious I is no more responsible for the decision than I am for Bruce Willis's actions in Die Hard. In both instances I am simply an observer of actions scripted elsewhere.I have not read or heard of the book you refer to, but that's my take on conscious automata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted June 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 thanks, that's what i figured..but i could not alone get that indepth. and to be honest, just the two words themselves, put together in a sentence: concious automata it just sounds so extraordinary. :rant: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleAl Posted June 18, 2005 Report Share Posted June 18, 2005 "we are concious automata"what exactly does this mean?It doesn't mean anything. It is a concatenation of pretentious jargon like winespeak or artspeak whose goal is to impress authority without bearing content. That is how religion works - and if you question it you are thereby proven unqualfied to comment. If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a sound? 1) If Helen Keller falls in a forest, does she make a sound? 2) LIGO in Washington State. The gravity wave detector can sense trees being felled 100 miles away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harzburgite Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 It doesn't mean anything.Yes it does. Please refer to post 2.It is a concatenation of pretentious jargon Much like the phrase 'a concatenation of pretentious jargon'. Nice touch. I like it.That is how religion works - and if you question it you are thereby proven unqualfied to comment.As noted above, I am not familiar with the work the phrase is quoted from, but even if it is a religious work I can assure you the concept is decidedly scientific and arguably anti-religious. Your whimsical references to falling trees seemed more Busby Berkeley than Bishop Berkeley and as such surely off-topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 ___Automata (plural of automaton) means computer programs these days, as in Conway's game of Life. An initial state is input & then subjected to a set of rules which govern all future development of the inital set on some pre-described matrix. Life is a 2-dimensional cellualr automata.___Concious automata implies AI (arificial intelligence). Multi-dimensional cellualr automata make claims for advancement in AI.___BTW, not only can you produce Sierpinski Gaskets by way of recursive algorithms, you can produce them with 1-dimensional cellular automata. :rant: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boerseun Posted June 19, 2005 Report Share Posted June 19, 2005 An Automaton is machine/device/organism that acts according to a fixed set of rules, and does so by itself. A robot following a white line painted on a floor can be said to be an automaton (plural: automata), whereas a automobile can't, seeing as it is operated by a different organism, following a different set of rules. That explains why cars sometimes end up against trees. An automaton acts purely upon this set of rules, and receives no input as to thoughts or such. It is not conscious, and can't be, per definition. The term "Conscious Automata" is therefore a paradox in terms, and these two words sound to me like they should be mutually exclusive. I have to side with Uncle Al on this one - it smells like pretentious jargon to me as well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harzburgite Posted June 22, 2005 Report Share Posted June 22, 2005 The term "Conscious Automata" is therefore a paradox in terms, and these two words sound to me like they should be mutually exclusive. I have to side with Uncle Al on this one - it smells like pretentious jargon to me as well...I'll have my tame medium let Mr T.H.Huxley know of your scepticism. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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