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Alternative Expectations Of Reality


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#1 Rade

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 07:24 PM

I think this is the best place to put this thread topic, what I call alternative expectations of reality. By expectation I mean what is predicted to be the outcome of some constraint on possible variety of one of the four fundamental forces humans use to explain reality: [em=electromagnetism, s=strong, w=weak, g=gravity]. [{edit} OK, the em and w can be united, but let us keep them separate for this discussion].

I would like to open discussion to the alternative expectations to physical reality predicted where different combination of the four fundamental forces are logically excluded. Thus, what type of physical reality is predicted if there is no electromagnetic(em) force, yet the other three remain ? Perhaps no type of reality is possible, perhaps yes ? Obviously, whatever is predicted would not be the reality we experience. I think this a valid and interesting philosophic questions, and I know I will learn much from answers provided.

Mathematically, there are 16 different combination of the 4 forces (4^4=16), which I show below. Current models and theory of physics require all four fundamental forces for a complete explanation of physical reality at classical and quantum scales. This can be called Reality I (+ em,s,w,g). The (+) sign indicates that all four forces are available to explain physical reality. Alternative Reality II would be the situation (-em,s,w,g), that is, none of the four forces can be used for any explanation of physical reality, which is a mathematical possibility that results in a physical impossibility as to human explanation. Perhaps some Reality II situation exists where none of the four fundamental forces are present, but such is outside the possibility of human explanation.

My goal is to see where it would be possible, in theory, for a physical reality to exist when one or more of the four fundamental forces are removed from consideration. Please respond specifically to one or more of the 16 situations shown below. The minus sign (-) indicates that force does not exist in that alternative reality, a plus sign (+) indicates it does exist. In your response, please explain if such an alternative physical reality is possible in theory, and if yes, how would it differ from the reality we experience(i.e.,Reality I). The ideal answer will include both classical and quantum possibilities.

==== Alternative Expectations of Reality ====

Reality I {(+ em,s,w,g)}: what we experience, forces we use to explain reality.

Reality II {(-em,s,w,g)}: no forces exist, impossible to explain type of reality that would exist.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reality III {(-w)(+em,s,g)}: weak force(w) does not exist, all others remain.

http://en.wikipedia....akless_Universe
http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0604027
http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0609050

Reality IV {(-s)(+em,w,g)}: strong force(s) does not exist, all others remain.

Reality V {(-g)(+em,s,w)}: gravity(g) does not exist, all others remain.

Reality VI {(-em)(+s,w,g)}: electromagnetic(em) does not exist, all others remain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reality VII {(-w,s)(+g,em)}: weak(w) and strong(s) do not exist, gravity(g) and (em) remain.

Reality VIII {(-w,g)(+s,em)}: weak(w) and gravity(g) do not exist, strong(s) and (em) remain.

Reality IX {(-w,em)(+s,g)}: weak(w) and (em) do not exist, strong(s) and gravity(g) remain.

Reality X {(-s,g)(+w,em)}: strong(s) and gravity do not exist, weak(w) and (em) remain.

Reality XI {(-s,em)(+w,g)}: strong(s) and (em) do not exist, weak(w) and gravity(g) remain.

Reality XII {(-g,em)(+s,w)}: gravity(g) and (em) do not exist, strong(s) and weak(w) remain.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reality XIII {(-s,g,em)(+w)}: only weak(w) force remains.

Reality XIV {(-w,g,em)(+s)}: only strong(s) force remains.

Reality XV {(-w,s,em)(+g)}: only gravity(g) remains.

Reality XVI {(-w,s,g)(+em)}: only electromagnetic(em) force remains.

Edited by Rade, 03 December 2010 - 09:52 PM.


#2 Moontanman

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Posted 30 November 2010 - 09:15 PM

Weakless universe...

http://en.wikipedia....akless_Universe
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#3 Rade

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Posted 01 December 2010 - 11:42 AM

weakless universe...
http://en.wikipedia....akless_Universe

Thanks...exactly what I was looking for. I posted a link under the appropriate alternative Reality # III.

#4 ErlyRisa

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:25 AM

Here's one for ya

 

come up with something different



#5 Rade

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 01:48 AM

Here's one for ya

 

come up with something different

OK, thanks.  Correct me if I error, but it seems you mean adding additional forces rather than the four now used in the Standard Model ?  There are a few models of physical reality that use five or more fundamental forces, so yes, I agree that your suggestion should be added as an alternative expectation of reality. 



#6 ErlyRisa

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 02:12 AM

OK, thanks.  Correct me if I error, but it seems you mean adding additional forces rather than the four now used in the Standard Model ?  There are a few models of physical reality that use five or more fundamental forces, so yes, I agree that your suggestion should be added as an alternative expectation of reality. 

There are so many "alternates" ... we need alot more.



#7 Rade

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 12:02 PM

There are so many "alternates" ... we need alot more.

Hi, well, at least you have some interest.   Please read the OP.  Current theory of particle physics only recognizes four fundamental forces of nature in what is called the Standard Model.  In the OP I said:

 

My goal is to see where it would be possible, in theory, for a physical reality to exist when one or more of the four fundamental forces are removed from consideration.

 

I would like to limit the thread discussion to the above goal.  

 

To date, only one alternative expectation has been presented...that is, remove the weak force.   However, if you read the cited links, there may be a problem that such a physical reality without the weak force could support life. 


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