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Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking


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#69 Don Blazys

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Posted 01 November 2008 - 10:12 PM

To: Turtle.

Really impressive. I was inspired to join this forum by your math writings, but this thread is more fun than the book itself. Your style of writing is clear, informative, friendly and very entertaining. If you are not making a living as a science writer, then you should be! Thanks!

Don.

#70 Turtle

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 02:58 AM

To: Turtle.

Really impressive. I was inspired to join this forum by your math writings, but this thread is more fun than the book itself. Your style of writing is clear, informative, friendly and very entertaining. If you are not making a living as a science writer, then you should be! Thanks!

Don.


:bow: Thanks Don. Your not one of my old professors are you? :hyper: I'll entertain any job offers by PM anytime ;), and tomorrow or so I'll be back here with the free stuff picking up with §180.00. :hihi:

#71 Turtle

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 09:34 PM

§180- Design Science and Human-Tolerance Limits; pgs 21&22 volume 2

This section builds on Fuller's earlier assesment of the limits of the senses in regard to what we peeps take in, and addresses the structural limits of our bodies and how it affects what actions we take without. The last 2 paragraphs sum it up well enough and they leave us with a sense of Fuller's hopefullness that we won't screw things up.

186.00 As long as the 30-day, seven-day, two-minute tolerances, respectively, for lack of food, water, and air are not exceeded, humans' minds tend to remain in ascendance over their brain-reflexive sensing, and people are considerate of their fellow humans. When the human is stressed beyond these tolerable limits, the preconditioned-reflexing brain function takes over from the thoughtful, loving, orderly reasoning of mind. Then the secondary utterly thoughtless behavior occurs.
187.00 It is at least scientifically plausible, and possibly even scientifically validated, to say that not only all humans but all creatures are designed to behave spontaneously in a benign manner and that all creatures have toleration limits within which they continue to function with subconsciously spontaneous amiability, but that many have been stressed and distressed beyond those limits early in their lives and consequently have developed aggressive, belligerent, or outright mad proclivities. This is not to say that this switch by both creatures and humans from dominance by their primary proclivities to dominance by their secondary proclivities is an irreparable condition of life on Earth. Though Humans as yet know little about complete repair of their innate propensities, there are promising signs that such cures are not beyond attainment by the human mind.


This offers a segue of sorts to my question on the overlap of Bucky and Benoit, and I can find nothing yet to indicate they met or studied one another's works. Buckster passed in 1983 and Benoit's Fractal Geometry of Nature came out in 1980 so it's not a shut case, and as Benoit Mandelbrot is still living I may yet find an E-mail address for him and write to inquire. When I read Bucky's phrases such as the above "Humans as yet know little about complete repair of their innate propensities", I keep in mind that he wrote it mid-70's and wonder what the Buckster would make of us now.

I also mentioned looking into Gibb's phase rule and as I'm light on my chemistry I can only offer what I found in a bit of reading and that is that it is integrally congruent to Euler's formula. >>

Once the form of the phase diagram is known from thermodynamics principles, Gibbs' phase rule can be syntactically transformed into the polyhedral formula of Leonhard Euler (1707-1783), so that chemical students knowledgeable in Gibbs' phase rule can learn to memorize Euler's polyhedral formula, and vice versa. ...

Gibbs' phase rule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I see in reading ahead a bit that the next 'section' is a deep & double shuffle in the hardcover books betwenn volume 1 & volume 2, and if the book page references seemed to be getting out of hand I may dispense with them for awhile. This brings us then to the next 2 page 3 minute meal to feed us Fuller. ;) :)

:doh: §200.01-201.03; pgs22-23 volume 1 & pg25 volume 2

#72 Turtle

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Posted 04 November 2008 - 01:47 PM

:read: §200.01-201.03; pgs22-23 volume 1 & pg25 volume 2

200.01 Synergetics promulgates a system of mensuration employing 60-degree vectorial coordination comprehensive to both physics and chemistry, and to both arithmetic and geometry, in rational whole numbers.
200.02 Synergetics originates in the assumption that dimension must be physical; that conceptuality is metaphysical and independent of size; and that a triangle is a triangle independent of size.
200.03 Since physical Universe is entirely energetic, all dimension must be energetic. Synergetics is energetic geometry since it identifies energy with number. Energetic geometry employs 60-degree coordination because that is nature's way to closest-pack spheres.
200.04 Synergetics provides geometrical conceptuality in respect to energy quanta. In synergetics, the energy as mass is constant, and nonlimit frequency is variable.
200.05 Vectors and tensors constitute all elementary definition.
200.06 Synergetics shows how we may measure our experiences geometrically and topologically and how we may employ geometry and topology to coordinate all information regarding our experiences, both metaphysical and physical. Information can be either conceptually metaphysical or quantitatively special case physical experiencing, or it can be both. The quantized physical case is entropic, while the metaphysical generalized conceptioning induced by the generalized content of the information is syntropic. The resulting mind-appreciated syntropy evolves to anticipatorily terminate the entropically accelerated disorder.


After 5 or so readings of this in an attempt to weed out any...erhm...weeds :hyper: from a quote of it, I found none. Nothing here but crisp concision and definition. I boldened the information I found most interesting. :turtle:

The next reading is entirely within volume 2, and reading in the books and seeing what enhancements Fuller wished to add 5 years later to volume 1 is quite interesting in its own right. The online version does not afford this insight. :clue: :D

:read:
§201.10-201.22;pgs25-28 volume 2

#73 Don Blazys

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Posted 07 November 2008 - 11:32 PM

To: Turtle,

In post # 71, you ask: "I wonder what the Buckster would make of us now?"

Well, I think that he would be filled with hope, at least in us Americans. He lived through two world wars, and the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam where neither side really cared that much about "collateral damage" and the killing was quite indiscriminant. We now use a lot more precision weaponry (computer/laser targeting of missles, bombs etc.) to greatly reduce the number of innocent civilian casualties, and this is often done at our own peril.

He also lived through a time when women and minorities were truly treated as second class citizens, and would be pleasantly surprised at the enormous progress that we made on those issues.

He would also be very proud of the "green movement" that he helped start and would be most hopefull in that the conciousness of most Americans, and perhaps most of the worlds population, does indeed seem to be moving in a more humanitarian direction.

That's my guess.

Don.

#74 Turtle

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 11:55 AM

To: Turtle,

In post # 71, you ask: "I wonder what the Buckster would make of us now?"

Well, I think that he would be filled with hope, at least in us Americans. He lived through two world wars, and the conflicts in Korea and Vietnam where neither side really cared that much about "collateral damage" and the killing was quite indiscriminant. We now use a lot more precision weaponry (computer/laser targeting of missles, bombs etc.) to greatly reduce the number of innocent civilian casualties, and this is often done at our own peril.

He also lived through a time when women and minorities were truly treated as second class citizens, and would be pleasantly surprised at the enormous progress that we made on those issues.

He would also be very proud of the "green movement" that he helped start and would be most hopefull in that the conciousness of most Americans, and perhaps most of the worlds population, does indeed seem to be moving in a more humanitarian direction.

That's my guess.

Don.


I agree Fuller has an element of hopefullness, but I think his request to have his epitath say "Call me Trimtab" is indicative of that element in small quantity. On the whole though, if that's good enough for him it's good enough for me. :hyper: That he felt it necessary to write a second volume indicates to me that his feeling that common folks would understand his geometry (expressed in the first volume) didn't pan out the way he thought even in his own lifetime.

On another aside, I wrote to Mr. Mandelbrot to ask if he ever met Fuller and I received a prompt & courteous reply in the negative; Mandelbrot never met Fuller.

Getting back to the reading, I found only a bit I thought worth quoting.

201.22 All of the exact sciences of physics and chemistry have provided for the accounting of the physical behaviors of matter and energy only through separate, unique languages that require awkward translation through the function of the abstract interpreters known as the constants. But synergetics now embraces the comprehensive family of behavioral relationships within one language capable of reconciling all the experimentally disclosed values of the XYZ__CGtS mensuration systems adopted by science. The adoption of the tetrahedron as mensural unity, as proposed in Table 223.64, and the recognition of the isotropic vector matrix as the rational coordinate model, are all that is needed to reveal the implicit omnirationality of all chemical associating and disassociating....


I haven't previewed ahead yet, so no new reading assignment. I'm off to reconcile with this being Saturday. B) :)

#75 Turtle

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Posted 08 November 2008 - 07:44 PM

YouTube - Synergetics 2: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking

#76 Turtle

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Posted 04 May 2009 - 12:49 PM

Well, nearly 1/2 a year has passed since my last post and I have found during the interval that Bucky's Synergetics books make the most fine & excellent doorstops. :shrug: Poor ol' pompous, bamboozling, condescending, misdirecting, flatulent and dead Mr. Fuller has said so much of so little substance that one can scarecely imagine anything short of the Urantia Book nears Synergetics in it bombasity & obfuscations. :)

No but really. There is some interesting geometry here, but on the whole, going after it is akin to wading through a sewer treatment plant to retrieve a nickel. That said, I withdraw my opening restrictions and admonitions to stay the course and all bets are off and all sections cleared for random acts of criticism.

Let the lambasting begin and should anyone wish to acquire a pair of fine doorstops, just let me know. :confused:

#77 Turtle

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Posted 16 May 2009 - 08:06 PM

Back on track, we come to some interesting assertions. (As if. :Alien: ;)) Taking up then where we last left our hero, we read §202.00-203.10

200.00 SYNERGETICS

202.00 Angular Topology
202.01 Synergetics is a triangular and tetrahedral system. It uses 60-degree coordination instead of 90-degree coordination. It permits conceptual modeling of the fourth and fifth arithmetic powers; that is, fourth- and fifth-dimensional aggregations of points or spheres in an entirely rational coordinate system that is congruent with all the experientially harvested data of astrophysics and molecular physics; that is, both macro- and micro-cosmic phenomena. It coordinates within one mensurational system the complete gears-interlocking of quantum wave mechanics and vectorial geometry.


Seems the dear ol' fudge heard me from the grave. :rip: :hyper: 4th & 5th dimensions and quantum wave mechanics get tossed around a lot here at the ol' Hypog, or so I have heard, and here we have a full explication from one Mr. R.B. Fuller geometer extraordinaire and no takers. What to do!? :D :read:

#78 Turtle

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 07:35 PM

someone said there is no real science to discuss at Hypography. i say just not many want to get dirty with real science. for all the supposed geniuses here with a hyper-theory of this and squirrel-wave function that & bleh bleh bleh ad nauseum, when presented with similarly themed work from a bona fide genius like bucky the silence gets deafening.

meh :confused:

#79 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:15 PM

Well, nearly 1/2 a year has passed since my last post and I have found during the interval that Bucky's Synergetics books make the most fine & excellent doorstops. Poor ol' pompous, bamboozling, condescending, misdirecting, flatulent and dead Mr. Fuller has said so much of so little substance that one can scarecely imagine anything short of the Urantia Book nears Synergetics in it bombasity & obfuscations.

:confused:

someone said there is no real science to discuss at Hypography. i say just not many want to get dirty with real science. for all the supposed geniuses here with a hyper-theory of this and squirrel-wave function that & bleh bleh bleh ad nauseum, when presented with similarly themed work from a bona fide genius like bucky the silence gets deafening.

have we flipped or flopped or are yins just bored?:doh:

#80 DFINITLYDISTRUBD

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 08:17 PM

That said, I withdraw my opening restrictions and admonitions to stay the course and all bets are off and all sections cleared for random acts of criticism.

Let the lambasting begin and should anyone wish to acquire a pair of fine doorstops, just let me know

yins did sayz:P




sorry my friend...I'll behave;)

#81 Turtle

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Posted 14 July 2009 - 11:27 PM

yins did sayz:P

sorry my friend...I'll behave ;)


no worries; you have me on a technicality that i freely offered. feel free yourself of course to take this anywhere within the text you want. ya got stones just showin' up. :Alien:

here's the online mostly-complete-text table of contents of Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking by the right Honorable, and still Dead, Mr. Richard Buckminster Fuller. have at 'er! :eek2: >>R. Buckminster Fuller's SYNERGETICS

#82 Turtle

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Posted 16 July 2009 - 01:41 AM

don't everyone talk at once now, or we'll never get this rock off the tetrahedron. ;) :rant:

winds have been light here so 1 volume of Synergetics is sufficient to keep the door from slamming and i have a mind to get up the volume with the numerology chapter in it & have a look see of the hard-cover kind. :hyper: hell, the chapter title alone is an invitation to automatic wave off. that bucky's a caution, aint he!? :evil: read what? uhm...erhm...uh...i would but i...erhm... have an appointment...my wife is calling me...dentist appointment...gotta go. :doh:

1200.00 NUMEROLOGY

#83 Turtle

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Posted 17 August 2009 - 11:52 AM

well i got right on that reading yesterday. :doh: :D i read pgs. 727 through 750. some of it sounds familiar, like an acquaintance's voice heard after a 40 year lapse, and some of it seems quite new, like a bee sting of 5 minutes ago. :loser:

most poignant this time around is the buckster's assertion people have been sailing the earth for thousands of millenniums (pgs.742 & 750). :jab:

a rather odd style change in this first section of 1200.00, as it is all formatted like poetry & reads like history. that bucky! he's a pistol. :Guns: anyway, here's the online version and as there are no pages because of the style issue, you'll have to scroll on your own to find my poignant references. :read: fascinating! :evil: :ud:

1200.00 NUMEROLOGY

opening stanza:

1210.00 Numerology

Historically long perspective
Suggests it as possible
That many of the intriguing
Yet ineffable experiences
Which humanity thus far
Has been unable to explain,
And, therefore, treats with only superstitiously,
May embrace phenomena
Which in due course
Could turn out to be complexes
Of physically demonstrable realities
Which might even manifest
Generalized principles of Universe.



#84 Turtle

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 02:37 PM

Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking. i don't recall if i conciously borrowed "exploration" from buckster's title for my katabatak thread title or not, but no matter; it's all the out bucky needs when assertion comes to criticize. :Alien:

section 1210.00 epitomizes exploration-in-geometric-thinking, and while i chose to minimize "numerology" in describing my work with modulo arithmetic, bucky saw fit to make it a headliner. possibly a difference of his interest in the thinking of it, and my interest in the doing of it. fortunately, our thinking is in congruence. :) :clue:

pages 751&752 §1210.00 Synergetics: Explorations in the Geometry of Thinking

1200.00 NUMEROLOGY

The Mayans used base twenty in their numerical system
By counting with both their fingers and toes.
The number twenty often occurs
In a "magically" strategic way.
For an example
We can look at symmetrical aggregates
Of progressively assembled spheres
Closest packed on a plane__a pool table.
First take two balls and make them tangent.
Tangent is the "closest"
That spheres may come to one another.
We may next nest a third ball
In the valley between the first tangent two.
Now each of the three spheres is tangent to two others
And none can get closer to each other.
These three make a triangle.
There is no ball in the center
Of the triangular group.
We can now add three more balls to the first three
By arranging them tangentially in a row
Along one edge of the first three's triangle.
As yet, all six balls are arranged
As outside edges of the triangle.
Not until we add a fourth row of balls
Nested along one edge of the triangular aggregate
Does a single ball become placed as the nuclear ball
In the center of the triangular "patterned" ball pool-table array.
Ten is the total number of balls
In this first nuclear-ball-containing triangle:
Nine surround the nuclear tenth ball.
And since a triangle is a fundamental structural pattern,
And since the triangular aggregate
Of nine balls around a nuclear one
Is a symmetrical array,
Man's intuitive choice of "congruence in modulo ten"
May have been more subtly conceived
Than simply by coincidence
With the ten digits of his hands.
...



#85 freeztar

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Posted 18 August 2009 - 06:16 PM

some of it sounds familiar, like an acquaintance's voice heard after a 40 year lapse, and some of it seems quite new, like a bee sting of 5 minutes ago.


I know it wasn't necessarilly meant to be deep, but it is. Poetry in motion. Right then...

We can now add three more balls to the first three
By arranging them tangentially in a row
Along one edge of the first three's triangle.
As yet, all six balls are arranged
As outside edges of the triangle.
Not until we add a fourth row of balls
Nested along one edge of the triangular aggregate
Does a single ball become placed as the nuclear ball
In the center of the triangular "patterned" ball pool-table array.
Ten is the total number of balls
In this first nuclear-ball-containing triangle:
Nine surround the nuclear tenth ball.
And since a triangle is a fundamental structural pattern,
And since the triangular aggregate
Of nine balls around a nuclear one
Is a symmetrical array,
Man's intuitive choice of "congruence in modulo ten"
May have been more subtly conceived
Than simply by coincidence
With the ten digits of his hands.


Ha, I was quoting this to ask you to explain it and then when I read it again (while copy/pasting) it clicked!

Nine balls with one in the center...Can't a symettrical array be fathomed around any one digit integer?

I still think it was fingers, call me shallow if you will. :hyper: