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#1 The Transhumanist

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 12:07 PM

The Unlimited Voyager is a shuttle that is propelled by growing explosions, it has unlimited fuel, and unlimited speed.

The first explosion is created by curving a micro inch of space time into a hundredth of a micro inch of space time using countless amounts of energy created from curve less space time (You will see what I mean later), and then shooting particles of matter and antimatter at the opposite sides of the curved space time, this causes them to collide and annihilate at astronomical speeds, which causes the curved space time to bounce back and uncurve, which releases tons of energy, this energy pushes the shuttle at great speeds, the shuttle has a machine that holds hot atoms together that are extremely firmly held together themselves, the energy splits the atoms, and because they are so firmly held together, they recover and trap tons of energy, and then a machine annihilates the atoms to the point in which they can't recover and release the energy, and uses the energy from that to curve more space time into less and repeat the process on and on, and each time it repeats, the explosions get bigger, and the shuttle accelerates even faster until it reaches the cosmic speed limit.

The energy to produce the hot atoms, and to curve space time, and anti matter, come from extremely fast collisions of matter and anti matter, from negative charge using dark matter.


With unlimited fuel we can travel around our galaxy. This shuttle has the same design as the Orion shuttle, and has two shock absorbers instead of one, and encase it passes a planet that can sustain life, it can launch a probe or a smaller shuttle out of itself. The only thing that I designed is the object in between the two shock absorbers, which is the over unity device.

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#2 Jay-qu

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 02:12 AM

Even if your crazy cool firing mechinism worked, you ship would sadly still be limited to the cosmic speed limit of c..

#3 The Transhumanist

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 11:17 AM

By c you mean that if it goes to fast it will go slower, right?


Space Time pressure will send signals to the shuttle causing the explosions to stop at that point. And the shuttle will keep going at the very edge of the cosmic speed limit. The shuttle doesn't stop, but it holds multiple probes that can land on an object and absorb particles or take samples from it. And then the shuttle will turn around using orbit of a heavy object and then the probe will magnetically attach to it, and go flying back to earth for research.

Imagine what we could find out there?

My next space ship design is going to be a war ship that has lasers powered by the same thing that is used to propel this shuttle, in other words, some very powerful ****.

#4 CraigD

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 01:56 PM

The Unlimited Voyager is a shuttle that is propelled by growing explosions, it has unlimited fuel, and unlimited speed.

The first explosion is created by curving a micro inch of space time into a hundredth of a micro inch of space time using lots of energy …

This first step is pretty tricky one. The only think known to curve space-time is gravity. The only thing known to produce gravity is mass. To curve (compress) 1 cm of space by a factor of 100, requires the mass-energy equivalent of about 10[math]^{29}[/math] kg (about 5% the mass of the sun), concentrated somehow within that centimeter of space. (For a look at the math behind these numbers, check out the wikipedia article “gravitational time dilation”) This is way beyond the usual meaning of “using lots of energy”, requiring matter denser greater than even exotic theoretical stuff like quarkium.

A more serious problem is that such a region of space doesn’t result in an explosion – just a region of space gravitationally similar to near the event horizon of a black hole.

… and then shooting particles of matter and antimatter at the opposite sides of the curved space time so they go through more space in less time, this causes them to collide and annihilate at astronomical speeds…

You don’t need to go to any unusual lengths to get matter and antimatter to annihilate – in its ionized form – the way the little bit that’s been created and observed comes – it’s magnetically attracted to its ordinary matter counterpart particles, rapidly annihilating with them. Preventing antimatter from annihilating before researchers have had a chance to observe or do interesting things with it is the current focus of research.

Though colliding anti-particles at relativistic speed will result in more energy being released, matter/antimatter annihilation is already not only a tremendously high-energy event, but the theoretically highest energy event there can be for a given mass.

Though I’m not sure why you’d want to, space-time “curved” into less distance as described above would result in particles taking more time to go through the same space, as observed by someone outside the curved space-time, not less. To get the opposite effect, you need a sort of negative-mass Exotic matter, something nobody has more than the slightest idea can even exist, yet alone how to make.

None of this is of much concern, however, because the next claim,

… which causes the curved space time to bounce back and uncurve, which releases tons of energy, this energy pushes the shuttle at great speeds, the shuttle takes some of that energy by absorbing it, and uses it to curve more space time into less space time and repeat the process on and on, and each time it repeats, the explosions get bigger, and the shuttle accelerates even faster forever.

just isn’t predicted by any theory, or suggested by any experimental observation. What’s being described is, in essence, a perpetual motion machine “of the first kind”, or, if you prefer a newer name, an “over unity device”. Though a popular subject with inventors and science enthusiasts, such devices simply can’t, by any of the known rules of nature, exist.

A note on word usage: As in your previous exotic spacecraft propulsion thread, ”The Explorer Shuttle”, you call your proposed spacecraft a “shuttle”. That word, which comes from an old one for the device used to carry thread back and forth when weaving, is normally used to refer to vehicles that make short, frequent trips between regular destinations. For example, http://en.wikipedia....huttle_program'>NASA’s STS is called a “shuttle” not because it is powerful, fast, or cool (which it is), but because it was intended to routinely travel between the Earth’s surface and low orbit (which its proven not-so-successful at :( ).

The sorts of spacecraft you appear to be most interested in, Gardamorg, though none actually yet exist, are more commonly called “interstellar vessels”, “starships”, or other names conveying “ultra-long-range”.

A note on source citations. Gardamorg, your illustration looks suspiciously like a couple of copies of a 1977 NASA archives illustration of the proposed Project Orion spacecraft (such as the one at the preceding wikipedia link), stuck together only one copy of the nose on that end. The tubes for ejecting little fission bombs are still visible – and the one in the middle of the craft makes very little sense!

Though you do note that they are “same design as the Orion shuttle”, and I’m certain neither NASA, wikipedia, nor any of the Orion designers would be in the least offended by you using these images, its customary, polite, and technically a hypography site rule to mention where you get images from, unless you make them yourself. The image in question is, as are most NASA archive images, in the public domain, but it’s still a good idea not to give the impression they’re you own work.

:thumbs_up Gardamorg, I admire you enthusiasm for and dedication to spacecraft design and space exploration. I recommend, though, that you put at least as much effort into learning the fundamental of physics well. Without a grasp of these basics, you’ll likely be doomed to chase after impossible design ideas, without being able to figure out what’s wrong with them.

#5 The Transhumanist

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 02:37 PM

I called it a shuttle because it doesn't have nice accommodating rooms, and artificial gravity, en fact its not supposed to hold any life at all, just machines.

Would it take more energy to curve and unkink a microscopic worm hole than it would release?

The shuttle has a machine that holds hot atoms that are extremely firmly held together, that absorb energy, and then a machine splits the atoms and uses the energy from that to curve more space time into less, even though curved space time doesn't speed up two particals, would the annihilation even with out as much kinetic energy (or force) from a faster impact still be powerful enough to unkink one hundredth of a micro inch of the curved space time?

How does an over unity device break the laws of physics, or as you call it, "the rules of nature"


I edited the topic, it is more feasible now.

#6 Jay-qu

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 03:53 PM

No it wouldnt produce enough energy. What craig was saying is you have to produce a certian density of matter/energy to curve space time - releasing a whole lot of energy from the nucleus of a hot atom will actually decrease this density and space time would in effect be curved less..

I dont know of any processes that can 'unkink' curved space time - you must understand know one has much of a clue how one ould create and use a wormhole, this is all highly theoretical physics.

Over unity means its efficiency is greater than one, or greater than 100%. That means that you get more energy out than you put in. This violates the conservation of mass/energy in the universe - which we believe to hold true everywhere/when in the universe.

#7 The Transhumanist

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 06:50 PM

Yeah, I thought that their might be a way to break E=MC2, and I swear that I will find a way!:)


JK, so if it breaks E=MC2, then how would the theorized big bang occur, how would all of the mass of the universe be condensed into such a small ball with out creating a HUGE black hole? What you are saying disproves the big bang theory, and our exp;anding universe disproves String Theory, so MY theory (And I have heard this theory before some were) that both the string theory and the big bang theory exist, I believe that their are an infinite number of universes, and that two of these universes collided, creating a new type of universe, one of matter, anti mater, and dark energy, I believe that the collision of the two universes created the big bang!

Its a new theory made by two scientists, or something. Anyway, back on topic, if a collision could create an explosion so big, that the center of the fireball would expand faster than the cosmic speed limit, or "Faster than light" Then imagine what we could do with further research.


Negative charge. And the laws of physics, I'll learn them both!

I recommend, though, that you put at least as much effort into learning the fundamental of physics well. Without a grasp of these basics, you’ll likely be doomed to chase after impossible design ideas, without being able to figure out what’s wrong with them.


If I ever become a scientist, I will have a group of people like you helping me out, chances are, 4 our 5 scientists will find out sooner than 1.

Although I would have to get them to help me first, and thats where propaganda comes in handy.:(

#8 Jay-qu

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:52 AM

No, what I say doesnt dissprove big bang theory - it is accepted that our current laws of physics break down at the extremes on the universe. That is when singularities are considered, such as a big bang singularity.

#9 The Transhumanist

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Posted 23 May 2007 - 11:59 AM

Here are two ideas, one is something that produces the energy to do the other.

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#10 TheFaithfulStone

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Posted 31 May 2007 - 10:39 AM

As long as we're making stuff up willy-nilly, can I have talking dog?

I'd say if these are for a sci-fi story or something, you've got just the right amount of plausible sounding bs. If you actually expect to build them someday, you've got some studying to do.

It doesn't seem particularly clear to me what the aim is.

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