SteveKlinko Posted November 24, 2022 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 19 hours ago, Halc said: Well, you seem to actually study nothing at all. It's not like you're sticking probes into human brains here. You've provided no evidence so far, which makes it mere philosophy at best, and pseudoscience at worst. Neither of those is going to help you try to get a designed device to do it. I actually agree with that, but you do need something to get this design, and you don't have that. You need to know how the biological connection works, and there's apparently zero evidence of even the presence of one at all, let alone something that shows how this hypothetical connection works. You're apparently jumping straight to the design of a wardrobe that gets you to Narnia when you still have zero evidence of the existence of Narnia, let alone a clue how the wardrobe should accomplish the portal. And yet your comment was saying something about its true nature. You're contradicting yourself now. How can anything that exists in a timeless realm make a decision, complete a concept, or be impatient? This is what I was calling an avatar. My drone was the example, not conscious (unconscious means something else), externally controlled by the controller from which the commands come (volition), and at which the video feed is displayed (experience). You didn't disagree with the terminology. Careful. Halting neural activity would be fatal unless the body was say frozen. I don't think you understand what anesthesia does. I claim no expertise myself. Loss of connection would still leave the mind conscious, but in a sort of sensory deprivation state. If memories are difficult to retrieve, does that mean that memories are stored in physical space and not with the consciousness? The personality would be nonexistent since the avatar is now mindless without the connection. OK, you're maybe talking about partial disruption, but still, a full disruption should have completely different experience. You assert that the CM is unaffected, and yet it obviously is. You ignored my first response to this. Why is the human brain so large and inefficient if it doesn't do anything that isn't done by a similar mass animal like a deer, which accomplishes the task at under a quarter of the metabolic cost. It's also not totally out of view. I pay attention to mine and am quite aware of at least the communications. It's much faster for instance at calculus than the conscious mind, but it doesn't speak the mathematical language one is taught in school. There has to be, or naturalistic physics would be sufficient to explain all behavior. There could be no supernatural volition. The steps for implementing the Scientific Method for a Machine Conscious Experiment can be stated as follows: Ask a Question: Are there such things as Conscious Minds in Conscious Space? Background Research: Read and Study everything possible about Consciousness and Conscious Experience. Emphasis will be on Human Brain Physiology and especially what happens at the Neural Activity Level with regard to Conscious Experience. Unfortunately, and Surprisingly, it was found that no Scientific Explanation, using known Scientific Phenomena, exists for Consciousness and Conscious Experience. Hypothesis: Conscious Experience happens in a separate Conscious Space from the normal Physical Space. It is hypothesized that Conscious Minds in Conscious Space can Connect with and affect Physical Brains or other Material in Physical Space. It is further hypothesized that Quantum Mechanical principles may be involved in this Connection process. Experiment: Use the Quantum Mechanical Tunneling Phenomenon to see if it can be used to show a Connection between Physical Space and Conscious Space. (Details below.) Analyze Data: Let Experiment run for a long time to collect massive amounts of Data. Try to find behavior in the data that indicates Non Random behavior. Make Conclusions: Decide if there is Non Random behavior. If there is, then analyze and reanalyze to be sure there is no normal Physical reason for the results. The Connection Perspective of the Inter Mind Model (IMM) enables the conceivability of actually designing Experiments for Machine Consciousness (MachCon). The Connection Perspective stipulates that there is a separate Conscious Space (CSp) concept apart from normal Physical Space (PSp). The IMM also stipulates that there is an Inter Mind (IM) concept that bridges the Gap between PSp and CSp. The basic premise of any MachCon Experiment having this structure is that something in CSp is able to affect something in PSp. This would correspond to a Conscious Volition (CV) concept existing in CSp. The CV will need the resources of an IM in order to have an effect on anything in PSp. There are two Quantum Mechanical (QM) phenomena that can be considered as a resource that the IM might implement. The first QM phenomena involves the Wave Function of an Electron and the second QM phenomenon involves the effect of Quantum Fluctuations on Electrons. The following Phase 1 Experiment descriptions depend on the existence of a latent Consciousness of some kind in CSp. It is also assumed that this Consciousness can use QM principles to affect PSp. Each Experiment provides a method to detect changes in some parameter that can be controlled by a QM principle. A series of measurements will have the characteristics of a random signal when there is no Conscious control. If there seems to be a bias or correlation in the data that is not purely random then that could be evidence of Conscious control. This is what we will look for. It is known that Electrons can travel through Energy barriers and actual Physical barriers due to the Quantum Tunneling effect. The probability that an Electron will Tunnel through a barrier is controlled by the Wave Function of the Electron. The speculation is that maybe something in CSp is able to control Wave Functions in a way that will enable higher or lower probabilities of Tunneling. This speculation can be tested with certain Electronic devices that exist today. Tunnel Diodes and Floating Gate Transistors have been used in separate Experiments. The Tunnel Diode based experiment is described in Machine Consciousness Experiment Legacy. The Floating Gate Transistor based experiment is currently running and generating data for analysis. The Tunnel Diode experiment ran for 2 years and generated GBytes of data. Unfortunately the results were swamped by the random noise in the system. There was never any indication that a Conscious Mind was controlling the experiment. This first experiment was really a Hail Mary Pass in order to try to at least Do Something. The first problem was that the Experiment used only two Diodes which probably was the equivalent of having only two Neurons. The second problem was that it was measuring the changes in a 1nA current which is 6.24 billion electrons per second. It was the best that could be done using bread board level electronics in a spare bedroom lab situation. The coarseness of the measurement doomed it from the start. Practically speaking there is no way to reduce the coarseness to a low enough level to make an analog experiment like this sensitive enough. The Floating Gate Transistor version of the MachCon Experiment has been running for a couple of months. See Machine Consciousness Experiment. However it too has not exhibited anything except random behavior. But it is early and maybe given more time some positive results can be realized. A 1 Mega bit Flash memory is used in this Experiment. Now we effectively have 1 Million Neurons. To program a Zero into the memory about 50000 Electrons must Tunnel onto the Floating Gate. This is vastly less coarse than the Tunnel Diode situation but is still pretty coarse. The next MachCon Experiment will have to incorporate an array of Single Electron Tunnelinig (SET) Transistors. As its name implies these devices can handle single electron charge movements. This will enable a Coarseness that is Billions of times less than the situation with the Tunnel Diode and 50 Thousand times less than the Flash Memory. Unfortunately, the SET Transistor is still at the experimental laboratory stage. Even if there is a latent Consciousness in CSp that is ready to interact with the world through QM principles, the question could be asked as to why this Consciousness would want to interact with the world in a case like this? A Consciousness would probably need some kind of Motivation to act. Maybe an act of CV will be activated only when we understand how to produce a Discomfort or Pleasure in CSp. This might motivate an act of CV that will affect the Tunneling characteristics of an Electron. The Experiment should be programmed to then reward the act of CV by lessening the Discomfort or increasing the Pleasure to close the loop. This could be how it all works at the single cell level or at the Amoeba level. Quantum Fluctuations are highly hypothetical events where small bursts of Energy or Particles appear briefly and randomly out of supposedly empty space. It is thought that if a Quantum Fluctuation occurs near an Electron that it could have an effect. There is anticipation that the SET Transistor could be exploited to measure these Quantum Fluctuations. The speculation is that maybe there could be evidence of Consciousness in the occurrence of Quantum Fluctuations given the right circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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