Turtle Posted March 13, 2009 Report Share Posted March 13, 2009 ... Finally, there is a trend in public opinion that is creeping towards the religious right and has been in effect for the last 40 years. ... Mmm....I find that public opinion trend is now actually going against religion in politics or social decision making. Give us a big enough lever and We can move the world. ;) ;) :) Pew Research Center: Public Support Falls for Religion’s Role in PoliticsAugust 21, 2008 Some Americans are having a change of heart about mixing religion and politics. A new survey finds a narrow majority of the public saying that churches and other houses of worship should keep out of political matters and not express their views on day-to-day social and political matters. For a decade, majorities of Americans had voiced support for religious institutions speaking out on such issues. ... Still, I find "fiscal conservative" a political euphemism for stingy and selfish. Seems to me they'uns would/did on principal alone, object to all these historical major expenses and controls by the US government. >> Infrastructure - Science ForumsBut that's just how I roll. :) :hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted March 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Mmm....I find that public opinion trend is now actually going against religion in politics or social decision making. It is easy to be misled by appearances. This is not the first time that the over-conservatives have lost public support for a while. But no Administration achieved more religious power than the Bush one, and Obama Administration is practical more than liberal-ideologically. He is accommodating a lot with the Republicans. Bush should be charged for war crimes, but even the public would not stand for that. Obama has more than he can handle with all the problems the previous administration left him, too many problems to undo all the repressive laws left over. We are in a religious-reaction phase of our civilization that has been going on since about 1970 in reaction to the Vietnam war hippy movement and the liberal-chaotic era that followed. It will undermine the Obama Administration and support for it will decline year after year. We are trapped into wars in Islam by Bush which will grow better, then worse, then better, then worse . . . The way I see it, we need to face the problem realistically if we are ever going to end it. charleshttp://atheistic.science.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Mmm....I find that public opinion trend is now actually going against religion in politics or social decision making. Give us a big enough lever and We can move the world. Pew Research Center: Public Support Falls for Religion’s Role in PoliticsIt is easy to be misled by appearances. This is not the first time that the over-conservatives have lost public support for a while. ...We are in a religious-reaction phase of our civilization that has been going on since about 1970 in reaction to the Vietnam war hippy movement and the liberal-chaotic era that followed. It will undermine the Obama Administration and support for it will decline year after year. We are trapped into wars in Islam by Bush which will grow better, then worse, then better, then worse . . . The way I see it, we need to face the problem realistically if we are ever going to end it. charles Well, whatever the length of the trend, it is registered and it counters your preceding contrary assertion. I thought that was a realistic dichotomy. Morover, since your assertion was a premise to a conclusion, doom & gloom?, and since your premise is false, your conclusion is false. ... A reconstituted "Right" in America is not going to be like this, it's going to be--yes--more centrist, just like Clinton and Obama have been, because that's what most Americans want. ... Good to hear. We the People are after all in charge. :) Now with your strategy laid, what tactics have you in mind? (even a couple brief ones would be fine; i have to file a report monday morning with team leader and so far i got nothin'. ):pirate: In other men we faults can spy,And blame the mote that dims their eye;Each little speck and blemish find;To our own stronger errors blind. :phones: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted March 15, 2009 Report Share Posted March 15, 2009 Personally I am hoping that during one of his tirades Rush Limbaugh will achieve critical mass, implode, and suck all the neocons into a political black hole. But that's just me....... :phones: :) :pirate: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted March 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Well, whatever the length of the trend, it is registered and it counters your preceding contrary assertion. I thought that was a realistic dichotomy. Morover, since your assertion was a premise to a conclusion, doom & gloom?, and since your premise is false, your conclusion is false. Surely you know this is a great example of ancient, simplistic, "black or white,"" good or bad" reasoning a la Ancient Greek. Hasn't it occurred to you that things are not so simplistic and that there is no clear "Truth", that it is only a matter of being more accurate? We are in the scientific, Einstein age with an understanding of the relativeness and complexity of things. You have contributed nothing there except to stoke your ego. charles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 The future of the Right is like the future of the Left - they come back from time to time. Well ... now is an example of the Left coming back. The Left is bound on a course of self destruction since they can, will, and have already made mistakes since they lack the constraints of other voices. They can, will, and have already forced through measures that will cost them in the next election. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 18, 2009 Report Share Posted March 18, 2009 Well, whatever the length of the trend, it is registered and it counters your preceding contrary assertion. I thought that was a realistic dichotomy. Morover, since your assertion was a premise to a conclusion, doom & gloom?, and since your premise is false, your conclusion is false.Surely you know this is a great example of ancient, simplistic, "black or white,"" good or bad" reasoning a la Ancient Greek. Hasn't it occurred to you that things are not so simplistic and that there is no clear "Truth", that it is only a matter of being more accurate? We are in the scientific, Einstein age with an understanding of the relativeness and complexity of things. You have contributed nothing there except to stoke your ego. charlesPardon Chuck? Logic is merely ego-stroking? :hihi: A generalized principle is just that, no matter the "age" in which it manifests. Shall we throw out the laws of levers on account of age? :doh:ΤΑ ΜΕΓΕΘΕΑ ΙΣΟΡΡΟΠΕΟΝΤΙ ΑΠΟ ΜΑΚΕΩΝ ΑΝΤΙΠΕΠΟΝΘΟΤΩΣ ΤΟΝ ΑΥΤΟΝ ΛΟΓΟΝ ΕΧΟΝΤΩΝ ΤΟΙΣ ΒΑΡΕΣΙΝ Satanya said, “Those who forget the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.”, but implicit in that is that if one does know the past, one has the opportunity to not repeat it. The future of the Right is like the future of the Left - they come back from time to time. Well ... now is an example of the Left coming back. The Left is bound on a course of self destruction since they can, will, and have already made mistakes since they lack the constraints of other voices. They can, will, and have already forced through measures that will cost them in the next election. Mmmmm....no other voices? Really? We can't count the voices that elected the President? The ones that support his job performance since he took office? Ah, but that's the left & this thread is about the right. Do you suggest the right has a future only because you expect the left to fail? ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted March 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Pardon Chuck? Logic is merely ego-stroking? :singer: A generalized principle is just that, no matter the "age" in which it manifests. Shall we throw out the laws of levers on account of age? Satanya said, “Those who forget the lessons of history are condemned to repeat them.”, but implicit in that is that if one does know the past, one has the opportunity to not repeat it. Really! Don't you think that the reasoning process has evolved, improved, in the last 2,400 years? Don't you think that thinking has been advanced by Einstein's relativity and all the great scientists in the 1920s and 1930s who discovered that there is no "Truth" and that we only develop a more accurate understanding of ourselves and our universe? I write what is logical, but do not use old Greek logic. Take for example the old "of two contradictory statements, one at least must be false." It sounds so real---to the Ancients. But what do you do with "The sun is round." and then, "The sun is not round"? Actually, it is slightly pear shaped. Not one of the statements is "false" and each is either more or less accurate than the other---slightly pear shaped being the most accurate but "round" being accurate enough for general, practical use. :singer: In dealing with history, it is important to understand what is going on so that you can tell when history repeats itself and when it does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Mmmmm....no other voices? :singer: Really? We can't count the voices that elected the President? The ones that support his job performance since he took office? Ah, but that's the left & this thread is about the right. Do you suggest the right has a future only because you expect the left to fail? :singer: Ha. Ha. No. The left has a future because the right failed. The left fails, then the right, then the left. This election was a lot closer than people admit. Other elections had a much larger spread: Nixon and McGovern right won 60% vote all but MA and DC Johnson and Goldwater left won 61% vote Reagan and Carter right won 51% and 44 states (recall Anderson got 6.6%) Obama and McCain left won 53% So this election was not as big a win as other elections in popular votes or electoral college votes. The flip flop between big wins between the left and right has gone on for years. I suggest you might want to look back at previous post election rhetoric that claims the end of the Democratic party and the Left. Didn't happen. The future of the Right is continue to do what they do and it will win again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 19, 2009 Report Share Posted March 19, 2009 Really! Don't you think that the reasoning process has evolved, improved, in the last 2,400 years? Don't you think that thinking has been advanced by Einstein's relativity and all the great scientists in the 1920s and 1930s who discovered that there is no "Truth" and that we only develop a more accurate understanding of ourselves and our universe? I write what is logical, but do not use old Greek logic. ... :) Yes Chuck; I know about humans' improvement. I'm a product of it. :Alien: I suppose I must ask you what formal system of logic you use. :singer: Ha. Ha. No. The left has a future because the right failed. The left fails, then the right, then the left. This election was a lot closer than people admit. Other elections had a much larger spread....The future of the Right is continue to do what they do and it will win again. Never mind that politics is a dynamic system and that you have applied simplistic linear analysis. Predictions are hard to make, especially when they deal with the future. :singer: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted March 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 20, 2009 ;) Yes Chuck; I know about humans' improvement. I'm a product of it. :Alien: I suppose I must ask you what formal system of logic you use. :)Yes, you are a product of Ancient Greek logic.:) but fitted to modern times scientific knowledge. That IS an improvement I admit. What formal logic do I adhere to? You infer that good logic has been formalized and has a name. I am unaware of that. Perhaps this is where you can educate me!:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 21, 2009 Report Share Posted March 21, 2009 Yes, you are a product of Ancient Greek logic.:) but fitted to modern times scientific knowledge. That IS an improvement I admit. What formal logic do I adhere to? You infer that good logic has been formalized and has a name. I am unaware of that. Perhaps this is where you can educate me!:) The Way is what causes the people to have the same thinking as their superiors; they may be given death, or they may be given life, but there is no fear of danger and betrayal. Heaven is dark and light, cold and hot, and the seasonal constraints. Ground is high and low, far and near, obstructed and easy, wide and narrow, and dangerous and safe. General is wisdom, credibility, benevolence, courage, and discipline. Law is organization, the chain of command, logistics, and the control of expenses. All these five no general has not heard; one who knows them is victorious, one who does not know them is not victorious. Therefore, compare them by means of calculation, and determine their statuses. ...Chapter 1 Sun Tzu The Art of War and Strategy Site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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