pgrmdave Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 Does the idea that the universe is expanding imply that it is finite? Could something that was infinite expand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philosophy Posted January 10, 2005 Report Share Posted January 10, 2005 for me i understand this universe by looking at life everywhere around us... Atoms mimic the universe..... Atoms are not the smallest things..... What makes an atom? What makes the thing that makes an Atom? what makes that thing that makes the thing that makes the atom? (hard to explain) Use Fractal Geometry as an example.... Everything mimics everything... In the end we find ourselves to be nothing but a big concentrated mass of chemicals and energy (i was told i was wrong by a teacher)My teachers obviously dont Break things down to the simplest of forms.. We as Humans... Look at our Spinal Chord and our Brain... IS THIS NOT A MATURE SPERM? yeah it is. (just my insane theory) lol I think people think to highly of themselves too... Think about what we are.. IN REALITY.. We are Nothing... Just Parasites of this world.... DOnt think im crazy... THINK.. T.H.I.N.K. Not in a personall perspective or a worldy perspective.. but in a UNIVERSAL Perspective.. we might do things on this world that may seem to Big So MIND BLOWING... SO ENORMOUS.... THIS world is as big as the the atom on the corner of your computer screen... Can u see that!!?!?!? yeah... and your smaller than that.... we are all small... too small to make a difference where the difference will make a difference... do you understand that?? or am i confusing? The reality that we think we live is FAR far away from the actual reality that surrounds us... HEY U NEED A JOB TO SURVIVE! HEY YOUR GOVERNMENT CAN TELL YOU WHAT U ARE ALLOWED TO DO AND WHAT U ARE NOT ALLOWED!!! HEY HEY HEY!!!!! FAT ALBERT!!!! A CARTOON! Or... A variety of different colors set in the right pattern for your mind to interpret into an african american kid. WE ARE ALL THE SAME THING YOU KNOW.... NO NEED TO HATE EACH OTHER... If you hate other people then you obviously hate your own self in some way. THis is my new quote that i tell people when i hear them Complaining about another person for their differences... We are all the same thing... Humans... the only thing that makes us unique besides genetics is the way we have experience life through the different sensory stimulus we are faced with throughout our lives.... this to me is why we are all unique... not genetics... But I am also a firm believer in genetics.... I know this post was off topic... i Aplogize for that... but i was bored and found this website... so i decided to make a quick little ramble about my scattered thoughts... Peace ComputerPartsUSA Philo AKa Rob C Aka Philosophy Aka 314c|< Rob Aka Skf Aka Damien Prescott YES I DO HAVE ALOT OF ALIAS's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Does the idea that the universe is expanding imply that it is finite? Could something that was infinite expand? The answer would be yes. However, to understand that answer you have to understandthe nature of what infinity means. Admitedly there are an infinite number of integers orrationals (a/:Alien: for that matter. However, there are actually more Real numbers than either integers or rationals even though the real numbers are infinite also. This is justa mathematical example. For size alone - you can double infinity, it is still infinity (not 2 * infinity). Now as for whatever Philosophy was talking about lost me. In summary you can expand an infinite universe. Maddog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlameTheEx Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Does the idea that the universe is expanding imply that it is finite? Could something that was infinite expand?The answer is Yes. Er, but on the other hand it's also No. Let us assume we are talking about a universe where the expansion is uniform, so that acceleration is proportional to distance. Assuming the universe was big enough any point far enough away will be travelling away at above C. That can't happen so we have defined the maximum diameter of the universe, and the answer is Yes. However... a) As The section of the universe travelling away from us above C can never be observed or otherwise effect us, it COULD exist. The logic is the same as that of the inside of black holes - if it can't effect us, it doesn't have to follow the rules. :Alien: This is a bit complicated so bear with me. Think of a space rocket searching for the edge of the universe. It is under orders to keep a constant velocity of, oh lets say 1/2 C. After travelling A million light years (he is a clock watcher - it takes 2 million years, but to pass the time he counts the number of stars passed as well) the captain notices that (relative to the local stars) his ship has slowed down so he boosts it at 1 G for x hours until its back up to regulation speed. Another 2 million years go by, and roughly the same amount of stars - by the captains observations. Again he boosts for x hours. How many boosts of x hours will it take him to reach the speed of light (as observed from base)? The answer is an infinite number! He will travel for an infinite time, and (assuming the stars are evenly spread out) pass an infinity of stars. He is always travelling away from base faster than the local stars, and he NEVER reaches the speed of light. So what is going on here? The point is that if the hubble constant is a true constant, and acts over the entire universe in a constant and uniform manner distance can't be directly converted into acceleration! You have to use the lorentz transform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindagarrette Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Sounds sort of like Zeno's paradox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlameTheEx Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 linda Yep, it is a bit like zeno's paradox. But this one is no paradox. However much an object accelerates, from the objects point of view, it never reaches C from yours. That is a well tested fact, not a paradox. I do wish people would realise that the lorentz transform doesn't just apply to particles in cyclotrons and hypothetical space ships. It applies to ANY acceleration. This includes gravity and the Hubble expansion. View the hubble velocity of a sufficiently distant object, and relativity comes into play. When relativity comes into play you have to use the lorentz transform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindagarrette Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Thanks, Blame. I need to brush up on some basic math. In case anyone else is interested in a refresher on Lorentz transforms and derivation, here are some good links. http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/212_fall2003.web.dir/Eddie_Trochim/Lorentztransform.htm http://arxiv.org/abs/physics/0110076 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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