Majeston

And you call me naive?? Please explain your conception of "equality and justice for all" prevailing on a planet of 6 billion plus people and growing and carrying accumulated baggage. Equality what??? Everybody has the same amount of $$$$,; land? opportunity? water? strength??? genetics???? family???? Should I go on???? Now, who's being naive? You dream is shortsighted and an idealistic fantasy at best. The UB is the best model because it is epochal revelation and provides the detailed analysis as well as the long term solution as well as the inevitable positive result to the problem.

The answer is that nothing is going to stop them. 1934 quote "The formative period of Chinese civilization, opening with the coming of the Andites, continues on down to the great ethical, moral, and semireligious awakening of the sixth century before Christ. And Chinese tradition preserves the hazy record of the evolutionary past; the transition from mother- to father-family, the establishment of agriculture, the development of architecture, the initiation of industry -- all these are successively narrated. And this story presents, with greater accuracy than any other similar account, the picture of the magnificent ascent of a superior people from the levels of barbarism. During this time they passed from a primitive agricultural society to a higher social organization embracing cities, manufacture, metalworking, commercial exchange, government, writing, mathematics, art, science, and printing. And so the ancient civilization of the yellow race has persisted down through the centuries. It is almost forty thousand years since the first important advances were made in Chinese culture, and though there have been many retrogressions, the civilization of the sons of Han comes the nearest of all to presenting an unbroken picture of continual progression right on down to the times of the twentieth century. The mechanical and religious developments of the white races have been of a high order, but they have never excelled the Chinese in family loyalty, group ethics, or personal morality. This ancient culture has contributed much to human happiness; millions of human beings have lived and died, blessed by its achievements For centuries this great civilization has rested upon the laurels of the past, but it is even now reawakening to envision anew the transcendent goals of mortal existence, once again to take up the unremitting struggle for never-ending progress." http://urantiabook.org/newbook/ub/ppr079_8.html#P079_8_13

Einstein was correct, Nationalism is the major problem, but, it was a necessary evolutionary step in the inevitable march towards one world government. And by the way, there will also be one world currency and one world religion eventually and one world blended race. :) a blast from the past..1934 "Sovereignty is power and it grows by organization. This growth of the organization of political power is good and proper, for it tends to encompass ever-widening segments of the total of mankind. But this same growth of political organizations creates a problem at every intervening stage between the initial and natural organization of political power -- the family -- and the final consummation of political growth -- the government of all mankind, by all mankind, and for all mankind. Starting out with parental power in the family group, political sovereignty evolves by organization as families overlap into consanguineous clans which become united, for various reasons, into tribal units -- superconsanguineous political groupings. And then, by trade, commerce, and conquest, tribes become unified as a nation, while nations themselves sometimes become unified by empire. As sovereignty passes from smaller groups to larger groups, wars are lessened. That is, minor wars between smaller nations are lessened, but the potential for greater wars is increased as the nations wielding sovereignty become larger and larger. Presently, when all the world has been explored and occupied, when nations are few, strong, and powerful, when these great and supposedly sovereign nations come to touch borders, when only oceans separate them, then will the stage be set for major wars, world-wide conflicts. So-called sovereign nations cannot rub elbows without generating conflicts and eventuating wars. The difficulty in the evolution of political sovereignty from the family to all mankind, lies in the inertia-resistance exhibited on all intervening levels. Families have, on occasion, defied their clan, while clans and tribes have often been subversive of the sovereignty of the territorial state. Each new and forward evolution of political sovereignty is (and has always been) embarrassed and hampered by the "scaffolding stages" of the previous developments in political organization. And this is true because human loyalties, once mobilized, are hard to change. The same loyalty which makes possible the evolution of the tribe, makes difficult the evolution of the supertribe -- the territorial state. And the same loyalty (patriotism) which makes possible the evolution of the territorial state, vastly complicates the evolutionary development of the government of all mankind. Political sovereignty is created out of the surrender of self-determinism, first by the individual within the family and then by the families and clans in relation to the tribe and larger groupings. This progressive transfer of self-determination from the smaller to ever larger political organizations has generally proceeded unabated in the East since the establishment of the Ming and the Mogul dynasties. In the West it obtained for more than a thousand years right on down to the end of the World War, when an unfortunate retrograde movement temporarily reversed this normal trend by re-establishing the submerged political sovereignty of numerous small groups in Europe. Urantia will not enjoy lasting peace until the so-called sovereign nations intelligently and fully surrender their sovereign powers into the hands of the brotherhood of men -- mankind government. Internationalism -- Leagues of Nations -- can never bring permanent peace to mankind. World-wide confederations of nations will effectively prevent minor wars and acceptably control the smaller nations, but they will not prevent world wars nor control the three, four, or five most powerful governments. In the face of real conflicts, one of these world powers will withdraw from the League and declare war. You cannot prevent nations going to war as long as they remain infected with the delusional virus of national sovereignty. Internationalism is a step in the right direction. An international police force will prevent many minor wars, but it will not be effective in preventing major wars, conflicts between the great military governments of earth. As the number of truly sovereign nations (great powers) decreases, so do both opportunity and need for mankind government increase. When there are only a few really sovereign (great) powers, either they must embark on the life and death struggle for national (imperial) supremacy, or else, by voluntary surrender of certain prerogatives of sovereignty, they must create the essential nucleus of supernational power which will serve as the beginning of the real sovereignty of all mankind. Peace will not come to Urantia until every so-called sovereign nation surrenders its power to make war into the hands of a representative government of all mankind. Political sovereignty is innate with the peoples of the world. When all the peoples of Urantia create a world government, they have the right and the power to make such a government SOVEREIGN; and when such a representative or democratic world power controls the world's land, air, and naval forces, peace on earth and good will among men can prevail -- but not until then. To use an important nineteenth- and twentieth-century illustration: The forty-eight states of the American Federal Union have long enjoyed peace. They have no more wars among themselves. They have surrendered their sovereignty to the federal government, and through the arbitrament of war, they have abandoned all claims to the delusions of self-determination. While each state regulates its internal affairs, it is not concerned with foreign relations, tariffs, immigration, military affairs, or interstate commerce. Neither do the individual states concern themselves with matters of citizenship. The forty-eight states suffer the ravages of war only when the federal government's sovereignty is in some way jeopardized. These forty-eight states, having abandoned the twin sophistries of sovereignty and self-determination, enjoy interstate peace and tranquillity. So will the nations of Urantia begin to enjoy peace when they freely surrender their respective sovereignties into the hands of a global government -- the sovereignty of the brotherhood of men. In this world state the small nations will be as powerful as the great, even as the small state of Rhode Island has its two senators in the American Congress just the same as the populous state of New York or the large state of Texas. The limited (state) sovereignty of these forty-eight states was created by men and for men. The superstate (national) sovereignty of the American Federal Union was created by the original thirteen of these states for their own benefit and for the benefit of men. Sometime the supernational sovereignty of the planetary government of mankind will be similarly created by nations for their own benefit and for the benefit of all men. Citizens are not born for the benefit of governments; governments are organizations created and devised for the benefit of men. There can be no end to the evolution of political sovereignty short of the appearance of the government of the sovereignty of all men. All other sovereignties are relative in value, intermediate in meaning, and subordinate in status. With scientific progress, wars are going to become more and more devastating until they become almost racially suicidal. How many world wars must be fought and how many leagues of nations must fail before men will be willing to establish the government of mankind and begin to enjoy the blessings of permanent peace and thrive on the tranquillity of good will -- world-wide good will -- among men?" Next: Law, Liberty, and Sovereignty http://urantiabook.org/newbook/ub/ppr134_5.html#P134_5_10

Sorry friend, it is not the thought. You will have to point out this quote in the UB for me. You should understand the meaning and implications of what "scaffolding" is in the UB and you should also learn the difference between religion and true religion. I gave you enough links in my last post regarding that for you to understand it. You seem to be trying to put stuff into a box or attach labels or one sentence definitions to something that is much more complex. There is evolutionary religion and there is also revealed religion. There is dogma, and ritual and the trappings around particular belief systems, but that is not true religion. I gave you some links to understand this better but you seem to want to boil religion down to a name like Christianity or Buddhism or Hinduism etc. I think Wikipedia lists something like 37000 different sects of Christianity. So, DDuck my friend what are you really trying to DDeuce? LOL you are trying to avoid doing the hard work of actually knowing what you are talking about On another note, I think I just read yesterday that science is once again mystified, puzzled and confounded because they just found what they think is a new particle in the Tevatron that they never expected and now they might have to completely reformulate everything they previously believed or "knew and proved" 2funny, it happens almost weekly. Just for your information, there is no Higgs/Boson particle to be found. The whole LHC is an almost criminal waste of trillions of dollars of hard taxpayer earned money. It's somewhat ironic that this new particle was found just when funding was about to be cut isn't it? Perhaps instead of spending trillions of dollars they could have purchased a copy of the Urantia revelation for about 12 bucks or read it free online. :blink:

DDuck, First of all, I did answer your question, I said yes, one religion is closer to "truth" than another. Not to "the truth" , but to truth. There is a difference and I don't believe that you can really use the term "the truth" since all truth on this level of existence is partial and relative. I don't mean to be vague or obfuscating, it's just that it's a very open ended subject and you probably have seen it stated somewhere that there is no absolute truth short of God. We just do the best we can, I guess. Truth has different meanings, but in the purest sense it only deals with the "spiritual" values, not the mere difference between right and wrong as for example does 2+2=4. The best example I know of is possible the Pentecost example. Jesus "poured out" his spirit, the "spirit of truth" upon all mankind at Pentecost. Now, what does that mean? Well, if you remember a few posts back, I quoted what it meant. Reread yesterdays post at 8:32 p.m. It is the "conviction" of truth. You know that you know. This is exactly why the apostles were able to go to their deaths even willingly and happily. They did not fear death because they knew what lay beyond, with no doubt and with certainty, with "conviction". No matter what the Romans or Hebrews did to them they would never again deny Jesus, because they knew and they knew that that knew. Now, your question is a bit tricky DDuck, because you preface it with a fallacy because you did not read or understand what the quote actually said because you started with an erroneous conclusion which the passage does not state. You started with "If religion is the medium through which all bestowals come....."it does not say that all bestowals of wisdom come through religion. It says that human religion "develops the capacity". Wisdom is the 7th adjutant mind spirit. It follows "worship" which is the 6th. Animals have the first five as we do, the difference is worship and then wisdom. True wisdom comes only from God, and I believe that it finds lodgement upon the foundation built through worship. It is a sort of feedback loop between you and God. You must wonder why sometimes that when you hear the most beautiful melodies or see the most beautiful paintings or hear the loveliest voices they are all without a doubt spiritual in nature. When man reaches for perfection, he approaches God. When I said it's not about religion, it's about people, what I meant was that religion helps lead you to God, and through this direct interpersonal communication with your creator you learn wisdom. Real wisdom, not simply threatening to cut a baby in half and having the true mother scream NO!!! give the baby to that woman instead. Now, I suppose it is time to relate all my glorious adventures with the divine and to dazzle you with all my own personal enlightenment. Well, for one the Ub is just a book. Probably the most important book on the planet, but still just a book. The sun, the planets, the oceans, they will all sometime be as dust, the only thing that can live for eternity is us. You, me and the others. The universes are "teeming with life", That is what is of real importance. You will also sometime read, P1094:6, 100:1.4 .......The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole. The soil essential for religious growth presupposes a progressive life of self-realization, the co-ordination of natural propensities, the exercise of curiosity and the enjoyment of reasonable adventure, the experiencing of feelings of satisfaction, the functioning of the fear stimulus of attention and awareness, the wonder-lure, and a normal consciousness of smallness, humility. Growth is also predicated on the discovery of selfhood accompanied by self-criticism -- conscience, for conscience is really the criticism of oneself by one's own value-habits, personal ideals. Religious experience is markedly influenced by physical health, inherited temperament, and social environment. But these temporal conditions do not inhibit inner spiritual progress by a soul dedicated to the doing of the will of the Father in heaven. There are present in all normal mortals certain innate drives toward growth and self-realization which function if they are not specifically inhibited. The certain technique of fostering this constitutive endowment of the potential of spiritual growth is to maintain an attitude of wholehearted devotion to supreme values. Religion cannot be bestowed, received, loaned, learned, or lost. It is a personal experience which grows proportionally to the growing quest for final values. Cosmic growth thus attends on the accumulation of meanings and the ever-expanding elevation of values. But nobility itself is always an unconscious growth. So, in somewhat of a summary, it is a question of balance. At the same time you are striving for eternity, you still have to put your pants on one leg at a time. One personal experience you might find interesting, if you enjoyed Cool Hand Luke, is that I spent quite a few years inand around Westport, CT. and ran into Paul quite a few times. The first time was when I was in Weston at the little country store and one pump gas station and was bending down filling a can of gas for my lawn mower and out of the corner of my eye I saw a car drive up and a guy got out and reached down to take the hose from my hand as I was finishing and so I handed it to him and at the same time looked up into his deep azure blue eyes and recognized Paul. It was quite a shocking experience. These were the days when he drove 240Z's for Bob Sharpe Datsun in Wilton/Norwalk. Another interesting point related the the previous topic about frogs, suns, planets, and "people" is how paper 15 begins....... PAPER 15: THE SEVEN SUPERUNIVERSES 15:0.1 As far as the Universal Father is concerned—as a Father—the universes are virtually nonexistent; he deals with personalities; he is the Father of personalities. Anyways DDuck, I see you are moving away from "wisdom" and into "religion. So, remembering the example of the tadpole and the frog, you should really do the basic groundwork and read the revelation in order instead of jumping all around. It's really written in the way it is for a "divine" reason. They actually do know what they are doing. For example regarding religion, they take you from the very beginnings to the highest levels from about paper 85 through 119 and then the Life of Jesus begins it's story. In particular you should read paper 131 The Worlds Religions, and then paper 155 the first and second discourse on Religion. You should take notes along the way with your questions because they will usually all get answered or I can help you if you get stuck on something. The UB doesn't actually quote the bible it quotes a truth in order to reveal a higher overall truth. Usually some part of what you think is an exact quote is changed or corrected. That is the method used throughout including Swann or Hartshorne or anyone else. Regarding W.F.G.Swann's Architecture Of The Universe 1934 Fred Beckner noted the following....... "The Architecture of the Universe was identified by Matthew Block as a possible source for some of the scientific material in the Urantia Book (UB). This is based on correspondences between Swann's book and material in papers 15, 41, and 42 of the UB. Although Swann's book may have been a human source for some of the scientific material in the Urantia Book, there is no evidence of verbatim copying of material from Swann, and in two instances, errors in Swann's material were corrected or avoided by the authors of the UB papers. >>>>>>>> Mass of electron vs tenth of ounce. The UB contains a statement concerning a proportionality between the mass of the electron and one-tenth ounce, and the size of the electron and the size of the earth: If the mass of matter should be magnified until that of an electron equaled one tenth of an ounce, then were size to be proportionately magnified, the volume of such an electron would become as large as that of the earth. (UB477:2) The mass of the electron is 9.10938 x 10-28 gram. An ounce is 28.35 grams. The magnification required to increase the electron mass to one-tenth ounce is then given by 2.835/9.10938 x 10-28 = 3.112 x 1027 The Institute of Physics web site at (http://www.iop.org/Physics/Electron/Exhibition/section1/properties.html) states that the size of the electron has never been measured. It is only known that its radius is less than 10-18 m. The radius of the earth, however, is quite well known to be 6.378 x 106 m. In order for the size of the electron to be proportionately magnified to equal the size of the earth, the electron radius must be 6.378 x 106/3.112 x 1027 = 2.049 x 10-21 m which is 2.049 zeptometers. Thus the Urantia Book implies that the electron radius is about five hundred times smaller than the currently known upper limit of its radius. The corresponding diameter of the electron is thus 4.098 x 10-19 cm. The corresponding passage in AU is: The mass of the electron is so small that if you should magnify all masses so that the electron attains a mass of one tenth of an ounce, that one tenth of an ounce would, on the same scale of magnification, become as heavy as the earth. (AU44:2) The mass of the earth is 5.9736 x 1027 gm. If one magnifies one-tenth ounce (2.835 gm) by the factor of 3.112 x 1027 one has a mass of 8.83 x 1027 gm. This estimate is about 47% greater than the actual mass of the earth. In order to make this statement absolutely accurate, the reference mass must be 0.082 oz rather than 0.1 oz. One-tenth ounce is probably close enough for the purpose of this illustration. What is most interesting about this correspondence is that the UB author, a Mighty Messenger, changed the second ratio from one concerning mass, which is easily verifiable, to one concerning the size of the electron. In doing this, the Mighty Messenger provides a way for Urantians to calculate the size of the electron, scientific information which is unknown to this day. This is an apparent violation of the mandate not to provide scientific information unknown on Urantia. Martin Gardner, in his book Urantia: The Great Cult Mystery, says the following about this correspondence: 12/30/01 3 “Note that the Mighty Messenger made a mighty mistake in copying from Swann. He says the magnified electron would have a volume equal to that of the earth when he should have said mass.” (U:TGCM348:3) Gardner makes the mistake of assuming that the Mighty Messenger intended to copy Swann exactly. If he had read the UB passage carefully he would have found that the Mighty Messenger knew exactly what he was saying. He did not make the mistake of confusing mass and volume. We know this because he explicitly refers to size as the quantity he is proportionately magnifying. He is saying that the magnification factor derived from mass, if applied to size, would make the electron have the same size as the earth. As we have shown above, the value of electron size this implies is not inconsistent with current scientific estimates of the upper limit on the size of the electron. Gardner then goes on the acknowledge that the Mighty Messenger did not copy Swann’s mistake concerning the relative size of the proton. This appears to be a case of Gardner’s belief that he can read the mind of the Mighty Messenger, for he has no factual basis on which to base his statement that a “mighty mistake” was made. In my opinion this is another example of Gardner’s intellectual dishonesty."

DDuck, here's another "nice" hit on "wisdom that you might like in your study of "wisdom" The Spirit Of Truth The Urantia Book; Paper 180, Section 5 The new helper which Jesus promised to send into the hearts of believers, to pour out upon all flesh, is the Spirit of Truth. This divine endowment is not the letter or law of truth, neither is it to function as the form or expression of truth. The new teacher is the conviction of truth, the consciousness and assurance of true meanings on real spirit levels. And this new teacher is the spirit of living and growing truth, expanding, unfolding, and adaptative truth. Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality. Truth exists only on high spiritual levels of the realization of divinity and the consciousness of communion with God. You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. When you undertake the human formulation of divine truth, it speedily dies. The post-mortem salvage of imprisoned truth, even at best, can eventuate only in the realization of a peculiar form of intellectualized glorified wisdom. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind. Intelligence grows out of a material existence which is illuminated by the presence of the cosmic mind. Wisdom comprises the consciousness of knowledge elevated to new levels of meaning and activated by the presence of the universe endowment of the adjutant of wisdom. Truth is a spiritual reality value experienced only by spirit-endowed beings who function upon supermaterial levels of universe consciousness, and who, after the realization of truth, permit its spirit of activation to live and reign within their souls. The true child of universe insight looks for the living Spirit of Truth in every wise saying. The God-knowing individual is constantly elevating wisdom to the living-truth levels of divine attainment; the spiritually unprogressive soul is all the while dragging the living truth down to the dead levels of wisdom and to the domain of mere exalted knowledge. The golden rule, when divested of the superhuman insight of the Spirit of Truth, becomes nothing more than a rule of high ethical conduct. The golden rule, when literally interpreted, may become the instrument of great offense to one's fellows. Without a spiritual discernment of the golden rule of wisdom you might reason that, since you are desirous that all men speak the full and frank truth of their minds to you, you should therefore fully and frankly speak the full thought of your mind to your fellow beings. Such an unspiritual interpretation of the golden rule might result in untold unhappiness and no end of sorrow. >>>>>>>>>>>........ the rest of the passage can be found here.. http://urantiabook.org/newbook/ub/ppr180_5.html#P180_5_3 or.....perhaps you might enjoy this section about "Wisdom" P1302:2, 118:8.5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>....... The whole principle of biologic evolution makes it impossible for primitive man to appear on the inhabited worlds with any large endowment of self-restraint. Therefore does the same creative design which purposed evolution likewise provide those external restraints of time and space, hunger and fear, which effectively circumscribe the subspiritual choice range of such uncultured creatures. As man's mind successfully overstrides increasingly difficult barriers, this same creative design has also provided for the slow accumulation of the racial heritage of painfully garnered experiential wisdom -- in other words, for the maintenance of a balance between the diminishing external restraints and the augmenting internal restraints. The slowness of evolution, of human cultural progress, testifies to the effectiveness of that brake -- material inertia -- which so efficiently operates to retard dangerous velocities of progress. Thus does time itself cushion and distribute the otherwise lethal results of premature escape from the next-encompassing barriers to human action. For when culture advances overfast, when material achievement outruns the evolution of worship-wisdom, then does civilization contain within itself the seeds of retrogression; and unless buttressed by the swift augmentation of experiential wisdom, such human societies will recede from high but premature levels of attainment, and the "dark ages" of the interregnum of wisdom will bear witness to the inexorable restoration of the imbalance between self-liberty and self-control. The iniquity of Caligastia was the by-passing of the time governor of progressive human liberation -- the gratuitous destruction of restraining barriers, barriers which the mortal minds of those times had not experientially overridden. That mind which can effect a partial abridgment of time and space, by this very act proves itself possessed of the seeds of wisdom which can effectively serve in lieu of the transcended barrier of restraint. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>............. http://urantiabook.org/newbook/ub/ppr118_8.html#P118_8_5

DD if it is your intention to make some spiritual progress in your life you are probably going to have to let go of some of your acquired fallacies regarding the "bible" As far as the "divine interpreting methodology that God put in place there is only one that I know of and that is the little fragment that God himself placed within your mind. That is the only "divine interpreting methodology" that you have or will ever have for all eternity. I see you are haviing trouble making progress, so I'll post this little diddy for you personally. Perhaps it has something in it for you. 155:6 THE SECOND DISCOURSE ON RELIGION And so, while they paused in the shade of the hillside, Jesus continued to teach them regarding the religion of the spirit, in substance saying: You have come out from among those of your fellows who choose to remain satisfied with a religion of mind, who crave security and prefer conformity. You have elected to exchange your feelings of authoritative certainty for the assurances of the spirit of adventurous and progressive faith. You have dared to protest against the grueling bondage of institutional religion and to reject the authority of the traditions of record which are now regarded as the word of God. Our Father did indeed speak through Moses, Elijah, Isaiah, Amos, and Hosea, but he did not cease to minister words of truth to the world when these prophets of old made an end of their utterances. My Father is no respecter of races or generations in that the word of truth is vouchsafed one age and withheld from another. Commit not the folly of calling that divine which is wholly human, and fail not to discern the words of truth which come not through the traditional oracles of supposed inspiration. I have called upon you to be born again, to be born of the spirit. I have called you out of the darkness of authority and the lethargy of tradition into the transcendent light of the realization of the possibility of making for yourselves the greatest discovery possible for the human soul to make—the supernal experience of finding God for yourself, in yourself, and of yourself, and of doing all this as a fact in your own personal experience. And so may you pass from death to life, from the authority of tradition to the experience of knowing God; thus will you pass from darkness to light, from a racial faith inherited to a personal faith achieved by actual experience; and thereby will you progress from a theology of mind handed down by your ancestors to a true religion of spirit which shall be built up in your souls as an eternal endowment. Your religion shall change from the mere intellectual belief in traditional authority to the actual experience of that living faith which is able to grasp the reality of God and all that relates to the divine spirit of the Father. The religion of the mind ties you hopelessly to the past; the religion of the spirit consists in progressive revelation and ever beckons you on toward higher and holier achievements in spiritual ideals and eternal realities. While the religion of authority may impart a present feeling of settled security, you pay for such a transient satisfaction the price of the loss of your spiritual freedom and religious liberty. My Father does not require of you as the price of entering the kingdom of heaven that you should force yourself to subscribe to a belief in things which are spiritually repugnant, unholy, and untruthful. It is not required of you that your own sense of mercy, justice, and truth should be outraged by submission to an outworn system of religious forms and ceremonies. The religion of the spirit leaves you forever free to follow the truth wherever the leadings of the spirit may take you. And who can judge—perhaps this spirit may have something to impart to this generation which other generations have refused to hear? Shame on those false religious teachers who would drag hungry souls back into the dim and distant past and there leave them! And so are these unfortunate persons doomed to become frightened by every new discovery, while they are discomfited by every new revelation of truth. The prophet who said, "He will be kept in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on God," was not a mere intellectual believer in authoritative theology. This truth-knowing human had discovered God; he was not merely talking about God. I admonish you to give up the practice of always quoting the prophets of old and praising the heroes of Israel, and instead aspire to become living prophets of the Most High and spiritual heroes of the coming kingdom. To honor the God-knowing leaders of the past may indeed be worth while, but why, in so doing, should you sacrifice the supreme experience of human existence: finding God for yourselves and knowing him in your own souls? Every race of mankind has its own mental outlook upon human existence; therefore must the religion of the mind ever run true to these various racial viewpoints. Never can the religions of authority come to unification. Human unity and mortal brotherhood can be achieved only by and through the superendowment of the religion of the spirit. Racial minds may differ, but all mankind is indwelt by the same divine and eternal spirit. The hope of human brotherhood can only be realized when, and as, the divergent mind religions of authority become impregnated with, and overshadowed by, the unifying and ennobling religion of the spirit—the religion of personal spiritual experience. The religions of authority can only divide men and set them in conscientious array against each other; the religion of the spirit will progressively draw men together and cause them to become understandingly sympathetic with one another. The religions of authority require of men uniformity in belief, but this is impossible of realization in the present state of the world. The religion of the spirit requires only unity of experience—uniformity of destiny—making full allowance for diversity of belief. The religion of the spirit requires only uniformity of insight, not uniformity of viewpoint and outlook. The religion of the spirit does not demand uniformity of intellectual views, only unity of spirit feeling. The religions of authority crystallize into lifeless creeds; the religion of the spirit grows into the increasing joy and liberty of ennobling deeds of loving service and merciful ministration. But watch, lest any of you look with disdain upon the children of Abraham because they have fallen on these evil days of traditional barrenness. Our forefathers gave themselves up to the persistent and passionate search for God, and they found him as no other whole race of men have ever known him since the times of Adam, who knew much of this as he was himself a Son of God. My Father has not failed to mark the long and untiring struggle of Israel, ever since the days of Moses, to find God and to know God. For weary generations the Jews have not ceased to toil, sweat, groan, travail, and endure the sufferings and experience the sorrows of a misunderstood and despised people, all in order that they might come a little nearer the discovery of the truth about God. And, notwithstanding all the failures and falterings of Israel, our fathers progressively, from Moses to the times of Amos and Hosea, did reveal increasingly to the whole world an ever clearer and more truthful picture of the eternal God. And so was the way prepared for the still greater revelation of the Father which you have been called to share. Never forget there is only one adventure which is more satisfying and thrilling than the attempt to discover the will of the living God, and that is the supreme experience of honestly trying to do that divine will. And fail not to remember that the will of God can be done in any earthly occupation. Some callings are not holy and others secular. All things are sacred in the lives of those who are spirit led; that is, subordinated to truth, ennobled by love, dominated by mercy, and restrained by fairness—justice. The spirit which my Father and I shall send into the world is not only the Spirit of Truth but also the spirit of idealistic beauty. You must cease to seek for the word of God only on the pages of the olden records of theologic authority. Those who are born of the spirit of God shall henceforth discern the word of God regardless of whence it appears to take origin. Divine truth must not be discounted because the channel of its bestowal is apparently human. Many of your brethren have minds which accept the theory of God while they spiritually fail to realize the presence of God. And that is just the reason why I have so often taught you that the kingdom of heaven can best be realized by acquiring the spiritual attitude of a sincere child. It is not the mental immaturity of the child that I commend to you but rather the spiritual simplicity of such an easy-believing and fully-trusting little one. It is not so important that you should know about the fact of God as that you should increasingly grow in the ability to feel the presence of God When you once begin to find God in your soul, presently you will begin to discover him in other men's souls and eventually in all the creatures and creations of a mighty universe. But what chance does the Father have to appear as a God of supreme loyalties and divine ideals in the souls of men who give little or no time to the thoughtful contemplation of such eternal realities? While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto. But do not make the mistake of trying to prove to other men that you have found God; you cannot consciously produce such valid proof, albeit there are two positive and powerful demonstrations of the fact that you are God-knowing, and they are: The fruits of the spirit of God showing forth in your daily routine life. The fact that your entire life plan furnishes positive proof that you have unreservedly risked everything you are and have on the adventure of survival after death in the pursuit of the hope of finding the God of eternity, whose presence you have foretasted in time. Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit. You are my apostles, and to you religion shall not become a theologic shelter to which you may flee in fear of facing the rugged realities of spiritual progress and idealistic adventure; but rather shall your religion become the fact of real experience which testifies that God has found you, idealized, ennobled, and spiritualized you, and that you have enlisted in the eternal adventure of finding the God who has thus found and sonshipped you. And when Jesus had finished speaking, he beckoned to Andrew and, pointing to the west toward Phoenicia, said: "Let us be on our way." http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p155.htm

Hi Craig It appears that both you and DDuck have some interest in the Seventh Day Adventist history. Most likely all religions on the planet are continually evolving in one way or another. I posted a link to a very interesting document by Dan Massey earlier regarding the Adventists and Sadler, perhaps it was overlooked; I'll repost it. I hope Furchizedek cools off and comes back when he is feeling calmer -- he has a lot to offer this thread. Dr. William S. Sadler's Connection
with the Adventist Movement
by Dan Massey
5/13/93 http://urantiabook.org/archive/history/doc171.htm

Urantia numbering system If anyone is wondering what these numbers mean in any Urantia quotes such as P655:4, 57:4.8 page 655 section 4 of the first printing or Paper 57 section 4 paragraph 8

Modest- I believe this is what Furchizedek is referring to--- 41:7.7 Only those suns which function in the direct channels of the main streams of universe energy can shine on forever. Such solar furnaces blaze on indefinitely, being able to replenish their material losses by the intake of space-force and analogous circulating energy. But stars far removed from these chief channels of recharging are destined to undergo energy depletion—gradually cool off and eventually burn out. 41:7.8 Such dead or dying suns can be rejuvenated by collisional impact or can be recharged by certain nonluminous energy islands of space or through gravity-robbery of near-by smaller suns or systems. The majority of dead suns will experience revivification by these or other evolutionary techniques. Those which are not thus eventually recharged are destined to undergo disruption by mass explosion when the gravity condensation attains the critical level of ultimatonic condensation of energy pressure. Such disappearing suns thus become energy of the rarest form, admirably adapted to energize other more favorably situated suns. 8. SOLAR-ENERGY REACTIONS 41:8.1 In those suns which are encircuited in the space-energy channels, solar energy is liberated by various complex nuclear-reaction chains, the most common of which is the hydrogen-carbon-helium reaction. In this metamorphosis, carbon acts as an energy catalyst since it is in no way actually changed by this process of converting hydrogen into helium. Under certain conditions of high temperature the hydrogen penetrates the carbon nuclei. Since the carbon cannot hold more than four such protons, when this saturation state is attained, it begins to emit protons as fast as new ones arrive. In this reaction the ingoing hydrogen particles come forth as a helium atom. Modest this is all gross generalization and it appears that it postulates that all stars are basically composed of the same basic material. Perhaps this is one reason why science postulates; speculates, theorizes, conjectures that our sun is 4.5 billion years old as you repeat and will only last 5 billion more years. Urantia tells us that the our sun is 6 billion years old and will last another 25 billion years. You should reread paper 41 and do your best to not say this is wrong and that's wrong. If you can really fathom the following statement and its implications you might not be so certain of what you think you know. P655:4, 57:4.8 6,000,000,000 years ago marks the end of the terminal breakup and the birth of your sun, the fifty-sixth from the last of the Andronover second solar family. This final eruption of the nebular nucleus gave birth to 136,702 suns, most of them solitary orbs. The total number of suns and sun systems having origin in the Andronover nebula was 1,013,628. The number of the solar system sun is 1,013,572. snip...

I think you might be wrong here Norm, I recall the passage stating 25 billion years, let's see what it actually says P465:2, 41:9.2 Atoms and electrons are subject to gravity. The ultimatons are not subject to local gravity, the interplay of material attraction, but they are fully obedient to absolute or Paradise gravity, to the trend, the swing, of the universal and eternal circle of the universe of universes. Ultimatonic energy does not obey the linear or direct gravity attraction of near-by or remote material masses, but it does ever swing true to the circuit of the great ellipse of the far-flung creation. P465:3, 41:9.3 Your own solar center radiates almost one hundred billion tons of actual matter annually, while the giant suns lose matter at a prodigious rate during their earlier growth, the first billion years. A sun's life becomes stable after the maximum of internal temperature is reached, and the subatomic energies begin to be released. And it is just at this critical point that the larger suns are given to convulsive pulsations. P465:4, 41:9.4 Sun stability is wholly dependent on the equilibrium between gravity-heat contention -- tremendous pressures counterbalanced by unimagined temperatures. The interior gas elasticity of the suns upholds the overlying layers of varied materials, and when gravity and heat are in equilibrium, the weight of the outer materials exactly equals the temperature pressure of the underlying and interior gases. In many of the younger stars continued gravity condensation produces ever-heightening internal temperatures, and as internal heat increases, the interior X-ray pressure of supergas winds becomes so great that, in connection with the centrifugal motion, a sun begins to throw its exterior layers off into space, thus redressing the imbalance between gravity and heat. P465:5, 41:9.5 Your own sun has long since attained relative equilibrium between its expansion and contraction cycles, those disturbances which produce the gigantic pulsations of many of the younger stars. Your sun is now passing out of its six billionth year. At the present time it is functioning through the period of greatest economy. It will shine on as of present efficiency for more than twenty-five billion years. It will probably experience a partially efficient period of decline as long as the combined periods of its youth and stabilized function.

Would someone who knows please tell me how to use this MULTIQUOTE function, ? Thanks if i do a reply i get a new screen with some quotes but not all data, if i hit multiquote i get no screen but the multiquote lights up which tells me nothing. thanks again

Actually Modest, That is almost exactly what is going on and quite brilliant besides. Your attempt to play the plagiarism card Modest, is ludicrous at best.

The Big Bang Never Happened by Mike Wisenbaker A Urantia Book perspective http://urantiabook.org/archive/science/big_bang.htm http://nordan.daynal.org/wiki/index.php?title=The_Big_Bang_Never_Happened

I sure would not like to be in your class and try to get a passing grade, how sad. I think we've already proven the 47 day part which really must have floored you, but you recover really quickly Modest, and go right back like it never happened. At least it's comforting to know that one day for sure one of us will really be proven right, and if it's me, or this so-called divinity, what are you going to do? Say I'm sorry, I was wrong?

Thanks, Poly, so now what? Just another coincidence or someone throwing darts at a map?

And you should DDuck, it's a great trait, you should question everything.

are you sure about that, maybe they have just hidden it better. I seem to recall the ongoing Darfur genocide recently and should we list all the other "Darfurs" since the 40s ?? Anyways, you are way off topic here and certainly should try to understand what you are soapboxing about unless you care nothing for truth. Why don't you address the Hudson Bay science-fiction while you are reading up on the pdf file on race and eugenics; if you don't have either the time or inclination to make a serious study of the revelation? It seems that when you are confronted with something you cannot fathom, you revert to your Sci-Fi Nazi propaganda trigger. Being Jewish by birth and education, I personally find that somewhat offensive, but then, I've only studied this revelation for 45 years, what do I know. Furchizedek, from what I understand, goes back over 50 years. One might think you would be asking questions, rather than trying to do the teaching. I know you are more rational and reasonable than this because I have seen your other side.

Furchizedek,, Thank you for your imput. Let's please try to temper our tone here so as not to turn this topic into the nasty free-for-all that the previous related topics exhibited. Thanks