Theo

We cannot change the laws of physics. We cannot change the Sun. The Sun has many influences on the Earth, even during minimum. And, the Sun was at minimum for sunspots. The Sun has so many direct impacts on our planet that it is mind-boggling. Everything we need comes from the Sun. Without it, the Earth would be a ball of frozen ice with no life. This is our Sun - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html We do not influence the weather on a global scale, only the Sun can do this, and does it very, very well. We cannot raise or lower the temperature of the Earth. All of humanity, even if it tried, could not do it. All we can do is to forecast, to prepare, and to dress for the weather. That is where our power is on this planet. By knowing what kind of global climate is ahead, we can prepare, and refit. We cannot stop it from raining, from snowing, we cannot stop the jet streams, we cannot stop the winds. We cannot stop storms, hurricanes, cyclones, and we cannot raise or lower the temperature of the planet. All this is solar-forced.

Hi Moontanman, The contents of our atmosphere has everything to do with temperature, but this is solar-forced. CO2 lags behind temperature rise, and that is solar-forced. Therefore CO2 is solar-forced. We, as human beings cannot change the climate - the Sun does that for us very well, and has done so since the beginning of time. Water vapor is driven by the oceans, more or less, which are the engines of the Earth's climate, and the oceans are solar-forced. I forecasted ENSO (El Nino) for this time several years ago, and now El Nino is here. It affects 50% of the planet, and if you look to what is happening right now in California, you will see just how powerful El Nino can be. All we can do is to forecast long-range, and to "dress for the climate," so to speak, so we can prepare for the climate changes that are inevitable on Earth. We cannot "reverse" anything when it comes to the climate. We also can learn to live cleaner, and greener, and not to pollute. But, we cannot link what we do pollution-wise onto "global climate change" - only the Sun can do that - not humanity - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060807.html See Top Climate Events - http://www.john-daly.com/topevnts.htm All influences from the weather are astronomically driven. That is how I forecast long-range. All climate begins in space, and that is the reason why it is important to monitor the conditions of space. According to my forecast, we are in the 30th year of solar-driven global warming, with about six (6) years to go. We are seeing cooler anomalies throughout the world, and in my forecast, we start a 36-year global cooling cycle about the year 2016, and this cycle will peak in the mid-2030s. We are going to witness and experience stronger storms, that in a global cooling climate means trouble. We still have time to prepare, but must refit our structures and weatherize our homes to withstand this colder global climate. But CO2 is not a problem for the earth, and the earth cannot turn into a "greenhouse" - that is impossible according to the laws of thermodynamics. We are lucky to have these laws because it is the reason why the Earth is livable, and without the Sun we all would be dead. All the energy our planet requires comes from the Sun. That is why I monitor the Sun closely.

This scientific paper - and the laws of Thermodynamics - has not been disproved. If it is so easy to "respond," as you say, then where is the math? Where is the beef? All I see is "opinion." That's not science. That's ideology, and ideology has no place in Science. This is the whole point behind what is happening in Climategate. Many people, many scientists, are very upset about all this, and for very good reason. There are lives at stake, and trillions involved and the science is not only poor, but bad science. Understand this: in order for climate science to save face, which it has lost because of the acts of a inner core group of AGW proponents, and the IPCC, it is unwise to continue to force ideology onto Science. It is a very, very bad thing to do. Children are being taught a lie which the laws of Thermodynamics proves is a lie. Moreover, it is very distasteful for those who have bought into AGW and put all their eggs into this basket to continue to try to demean, shout down, and debase the astrophysical and geophysical laws that govern the Earth's climate. It is not a bad thing to admit that one is wrong, and to learn from one's mistakes. In fact, those who are able to do so - to admit that they were in error - are helping themselves to remain true to Science. Those who are unable to do this are not fit to remain in science, and are clearly unfit to promote things that have been proven to be impossible as AGW is impossible because of the laws of Thermodynamics. Opinions are not scientific facts. Ideology is not science. However, it is very bad to continue along a path that shows that the people one believed in have been engaged in scientific fraud, to the point of using ideology to block out the Thermodynamic truths that govern our planet's climate. What that shows is ideology - not Science. I prefer the Truth - not ideology, nor do I lean towards those who would force down the throats of the population of this planet a lie that is not true, and is mathematically impossible. So, I ask, again - where is the proof that AGW is valid because the laws of Thermodynamics says AGW is impossible on Earth. See - http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.1161v4.pdf

Just where is my claim "unsupported?" You gave no evidence. If you would like to know why AGW is impossible under the laws of Thermodynamics, then read, and understand that it cannot take place according to these laws. It is an impossibility. No one's "opinion" is going to change these laws either. See - http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.1161v4.pdf What Climategate reveals is just how ideology does not belong in Science. The careers of those who participated are over. And, they know it. It is a sad thing for the world that many people have been lied to in order to create a global business out of the lie of AGW. Moreover, the religious fervor and propaganda that has been created out of this lie has led to many now questioning climate science itself. For, if AGW were to be true, then there would be no need to falsify climate data, alter computer models, and to remove raw global weather data which did not reflect the ideology of AGW. Science is a place for exploration and discovery. There is no place for ideology in science, and over the past 20 years, climate science has been run by ideologues who have obviously lost their intellectual honesty. Climategate shows this, and in the coming months, more revelations will ultimately lead to the full debunking of AGW - which has been disproven as impossible according to the laws of thermodynamics. I agree with John Coleman, who states the truth - YouTube- John Coleman slams global warming (1 of 4) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivkYxslfg9s&feature=related

Yes, that would be nice. For you to read the entire paper so as to clearly understand that AGW is impossible. It cannot happen. Playing around with words does not in any manner mean that these laws that govern the Earth are not in force. Thermodynamic laws are in force on Earth - right now, and there is no such thing as AGW. It cannot happen on this planet. Period.

My reasoning is clear - the laws of Thermodynamics makes clear that AGW is not valid. It is an impossibility on Earth. It cannot take place. At all.

Really? In someone's dream. There is no known theory that has ever been shown - definitively - to break the laws of Thermodynamics that govern the Earth. Not one. See - http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.1161v4.pdf

Come on, let's not lower the level of discussion. The point - again - is how AGW breaks the law of Thermodynamics on Earth - that is not a closed system. Of course the paper proposes this question, and it is a valid question, considering that those who continue to buy into this lie of AGW have not - to this very day - ever proven how man-made global warming, or climate change - is linked to CO2 dominating our atmosphere? Where is the beef? Where is the proof? How is this possible when the great majority of the Earth's atmosphere is water vapor. That is logic. That is a physical fact. So, please, let's not run around from the facts here. Now, we can all play these ideological "games" if you prefer, but that isn't Science, and it surely is not climate science to reject the physical law of thermodynamics. So, again, if you can answer the question please - how does AGW break the law of thermodynamics?

I am not a fool Buffy. I am also not a "skeptic." I am a climate forecaster, a journalist, and a poly mathematician. You know, I strongly support vigor in debate, but never ideology, or banning people because one does not agree with them, that is plain wrong, and should never be done. When this happens - anywhere - it means that the people doing such things are not intellectually honest enough to stand on their own perspectives without resorting to drum out others, and facts, because it does not lean towards their own predispositions, biases, and ideology. Re/ Venus - for one, Venus is not the Earth. The planet rotates backwards, the Earth does not. The atmospheric mass of Venus is 93 times that of Earth's atmosphere, and the pressure at Venus' surface is 92 times that of Earth's surface—a pressure equivalent to that at a depth of nearly 1 kilometer under Earth's oceans. The density of Venus' surface is 65 kg/m³ (6.5% that of water) and its CO2-rich atmosphere, along with thick clouds of sulfur dioxide shows it to have the number #1 greenhouse effect in the Solar System with surface temperatures of over 460 °C (860 °F). Venus is not the Earth, and no, the Earth is not a "closed" system. The Earth cannot become a planet like Venus, it has none of the qualities that would break the law of thermodynamics. The Earth has water vapor as the MAJOR gas - not sulfur dioxide. For more on Venus, see - https://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/Planets/venus.htm I continue to ask how AGW breaks the laws of Thermodynamics? It is impossible for CO2 to become the dominate gas on this planet under the geophysical laws that govern our planet. The major greenhouse gas on Earth is water vapor and I have yet to see anyone make this physical fact an imaginary one, and that is what AGW is - an imaginary theory that uses fear to scare the world into believing something that is not only untrue - but is impossible under the Thermodynamic laws that govern the Earth.

No, it does not. For one, the major greenhouse gas on the Earth is water vapor - the dominant gas on this planet. See - Visible Earth: MODIS Water Vapor The Sun, in my work as a forecaster, is the dominate body that regulates the Earth's climate, and the climate of all the other planets as well. It drives all atmosphere. If the Sun were not radiant then the Earth would be a ball of ice. It is that important to all atmospheric conditions on our planet. It drives temperatures, and CO2 must follow temperature. Not the other way around. For AGW to work - and it does not - it must break thermodynamic principles, which it cannot. See - http://www.schmanck.de/FalsificationSchreuder.pdf

You live on Earth I assume? Well then, you want "evidence?" Look up at that star in the skies above you. It is called the SUN. That's your cause of climate change, global warming, global cooling and everything else in between.

Please. Using the word "denialist" shows that you are an ideologue. And not scientific at all. Man-made global warming is the myth and ClimateGate is proving what many people knew was going on. AGW is a ship that is sinking fast and I am very glad to see it. It is long past due and about time. Now the world can relax and tackle some the real problems the world faces and it isn't "man-made global warming." It never was.

I don't know Brian. I am another person. Is that okay with you? Why do you find a need to write such a thing? For you to lower the level of this discussion? Is there a need for you to get personal with others simply because you disagree? If anything, that is immature. Can you retain dignity in an intelligent discussion without resorting to name-calling, and ideological put downs? Is that possible for you? From the content of your words, you also do not seem to believe in free speech. I do, and I am an American who loves his country, and cherishes the right of all free speech, even when I may disagree with others. You ought to try it sometime. But that is not a reason for you to then tell the moderators to check an IP address of another person because what, you do not agree with the views of another person and want them to be shut up because you do not like it? So, in your world, when you do not respect the right of others to express their views, you what, attack that person, say that that person is another person (whom you seem to be in a tiff with at this time) and then wonder about the phase "AGW wonderland" because it sounds like a person who you are in a tiff with? I am not BrianG. I am another human being. Is that okay with you? Can I go on now? Of course, your highness, with your permission to express myself under the Inquisition you seem to be trying to build up here in discussing the climate that affects little old me who happens to live on this planet too. Is it okay with you to add my two cents without you planning to attack my right to express myself? FYI - I am in my 40s - and far from a being "a sulky 12 year old." Please.

Yoda also said, "You must unlearn what you have learned." I apply that saying to the AGW proponents. But, you know what? That's okay... see for yourself. Climategate is growing, and you will see in the coming weeks and months just how deep the rabbit hole goes in this farce of a AGW wonderland. The facts speak for themselves. Why do you think we're not hearing from Mann, Jones, Hansen, and Co. right now? They know they are in big trouble. And, you know what? They are.

I'm all for playing nice. :rolleyes: As for global warming - As a long-range forecaster, my contention has always been that the Sun is the cause of global warming, and all planetary climate change. It is sad to see how poorly most of the world understands their planet's own climate and weather, but the myth of AGW violates the laws of thermodynamics and when basic astrophysical & geophysical laws are being "broken" I always look to see where the ideologues are who are playing the "wizard of Oz " - pulling the strings behind a drawn curtain. However, it has always been my contention that man-made global warming never existed. It was a lie right from the start. Toto pulled that curtain back in November, and, via Climategate will see something I've known since 1989 - that the IPCC and their companion climatologists and scientists (the careerist ideologues) have hijacked science in general and climate science in particular. Now, this is thankfully being seen by the whole world. We will hear more over the coming weeks and months on Climategate that will shock many who believed in the AGW hook, line and sinker.