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Trump's Veto


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#1 Moronium

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 05:53 PM

was pretty well orchestrated and presented a message which I believe most Americans will agree with. It will be interesting to see what happens from here, eh?

 

 

P.S.:  I replaced the 26 minute video from CBS which I originally posted, and which purported to present his comments.  I should have known that CBS never allow his message to reach the public, but would instead almost immediately supersede his comments and talk over them by having their puppets declare how wrong he is.


Edited by Moronium, 15 March 2019 - 09:49 PM.


#2 VictorMedvil

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:52 AM

I think that Trump made the correct choice here, rather than be lynched for calling a national emergency now he gets his wall.



#3 montgomery

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:12 AM

Moronium, I would like to give you the perspective of what I highly suspect is the feeling of the rest of the modern world's people who are not Americans.

 

Trump is maybe trying to do what is good for America financially or economically, but his ideas come with a very high cost socially. So the actual cost in that respect to America needs to be considered. There are many indications that Trump's changes he is making are beginning to cost America on it's social performance in the eyes of the world. I have some examples of that but for now I'll save them for later. 

 

America's social performance can no longer be ignored by Americans. It's no longer a simple question of, if you don't like it, it doesn't matter if you're not an American. It's very important now in this age of real competition springing up to give America a run for it's money because America's social performance is going to be weighed against that of the big world powers such as China and Russia. And it's going to play a big part in deciding who wins the global struggle to be the world's leading power.

 

I'm bringing the issue up with you because I think you are capable of rising above the lowlife politics on the question. Trump's lack of consideration of social responsibility for America is going to cost America dearly. That's why the choice America makes from here on in is going to be important.

 

I'm suggesting that Trump's way is not a winning strategy. For that reason I have to say that I'm anxious to see Trump extend his presidency for another 4 years. The damage he will do to America will settle the question on whether or not China leaves the US behind or not.

 

And fwiw, I'll also say that Trump is banking on military might to be the factor that can answer the question in America's favour. He's wrong because the nuclear deterrent in the hands of his enemies skews the outcome against the US. (mutually assured destruction)

 

Is Trump's strategy a winning strategy for America? It appears that it's not too eary to say NO. China has already come out on top on Trump's trade war.



#4 montgomery

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:14 AM

Moronium, I would like to give you the perspective of what I highly suspect is the feeling of the rest of the modern world's people who are not Americans.

 

Trump is maybe trying to do what is good for America financially or economically, but his ideas come with a very high cost socially. So the actual cost in that respect to America needs to be considered. There are many indications that Trump's changes he is making are beginning to cost America on it's social performance in the eyes of the world. I have some examples of that but for now I'll save them for later. 

 

America's social performance can no longer be ignored by Americans. It's no longer a simple question of, if you don't like it, it doesn't matter if you're not an American. It's very important now in this age of real competition springing up to give America a run for it's money because America's social performance is going to be weighed against that of the big world powers such as China and Russia. And it's going to play a big part in deciding who wins the global struggle to be the world's leading power. When I talk about 'social' correctness I'm including what's right both morally and legally in the eyes of the world.

 

I'm bringing the issue up with you because I think you are capable of rising above the lowlife politics on the question. Trump's lack of consideration of social responsibility for America is going to cost America dearly. That's why the choice America makes from here on in is going to be important.

 

I'm suggesting that Trump's way is not a winning strategy. For that reason I have to say that I'm anxious to see Trump extend his presidency for another 4 years. The damage he will do to America will settle the question on whether or not China leaves the US behind or not.

 

And fwiw, I'll also say that Trump is banking on military might to be the factor that can answer the question in America's favour. He's wrong because the nuclear deterrent in the hands of his enemies skews the outcome against the US. (mutually assured destruction)

 

Is Trump's strategy a winning strategy for America? It appears that it's not too eary to say NO. China has already come out on top on Trump's trade war.



#5 Flummoxed

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:49 AM

I guess the departments he is getting the money from must have been over funded 

 

https://www.cnbc.com...-come-from.html

  • $1.375 billion from the Homeland Security appropriations bill
  • $600 million from the Treasury Department's drug forfeiture fund
  • $2.5 billion from the Department of Defense's drug interdiction program
  • $3.6 billion from the Department of Defense's military construction account

Illegal Drugs may be easier to get in America, than prescription ones :) Is this a sign that Trump has liberal views on drug usage :innocent:   

 

Will defence contractors now get away with cutting corners, or were some projects not needed after all, ie a waste of money.  :shocked:


Edited by Flummoxed, 16 March 2019 - 10:50 AM.


#6 montgomery

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 11:20 AM

I guess the departments he is getting the money from must have been over funded 

 

https://www.cnbc.com...-come-from.html

  • $1.375 billion from the Homeland Security appropriations bill
  • $600 million from the Treasury Department's drug forfeiture fund
  • $2.5 billion from the Department of Defense's drug interdiction program
  • $3.6 billion from the Department of Defense's military construction account

Illegal Drugs may be easier to get in America, than prescription ones :) Is this a sign that Trump has liberal views on drug usage :innocent:   

 

Will defence contractors now get away with cutting corners, or were some projects not needed after all, ie a waste of money.  :shocked:

I would suggest that nearly anything is possible with Trump's low intelligent base. But I suspect (fear) that his base won't be sufficient to carry him through. 

 

An ace in the hole for Trump at this point in time is going to be the upping of the demonization of China. That is a play that can be successful with more people than just his low intelligence base. The tactic can be used as successfully as it was used by Hitler's demonization of the Jews. The failing of that tactic in the 21st. century is the prohibiting of allout world war because of MAD and nuclear weapons.

 

Social justice in America is the only winning strategy for America's future and that is the furthest issue from Trump's fatally flawed psychotic mind.

 

4 more years! 

 

edit: I'm suggesting that China will overtake the US in the near future. The only hope for the US to ramain anywhere near equal and peaceable is in coopertion with China. Everything else will be a losing strategy. 


Edited by montgomery, 16 March 2019 - 11:24 AM.


#7 Moronium

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 01:59 AM

Your extreme hatred of America has always been apparent, and it certainly doesn't surprise me that you are rooting for China to supplant the the USA.

 

 

America's social performance can no longer be ignored by Americans.  And it's going to play a big part in deciding who wins the global struggle to be the world's leading power....Trump's lack of consideration of social responsibility for America is going to cost America dearly

 

I'm suggesting that Trump's way is not a winning strategy. For that reason I have to say that I'm anxious to see Trump extend his presidency for another 4 years. The damage he will do to America will settle the question on whether or not China leaves the US behind or not.

 

 

The irony of it is that you try to justify your hatred on the basis of the USA's alleged lack of social responsibility.  You prefer China, which has one of most oppressive regimes on the planet and routinely shows its "social responsibility" by depriving its residents of basic human rights:

 

Members of the [Chinese] Communist Party are officially required to be atheists...In Mao's China, the CPC openly repressed all opposing political groups. This behaviour is now reflected in the judicial system, and has evolved into the selective repression of small groups of people who overtly challenge the CPC's power or its people's democratic dictatorship.

 

Numerous human rights groups have publicized human rights issues in China that they consider the government to be mishandling, including:... the political and legal status of Tibet, and neglect of freedom of the press in mainland China. Other areas of concern include the lack of legal recognition of human rights and the lack of an independent judiciary, rule of law, and due process. Further issues raised in regard to human rights include the severe lack of worker's rights (in particular the hukou system which restricts migrant labourers' freedom of movement), the absence of independent labour unions (which have since been changing[5]), and allegations of discrimination against rural workers and ethnic minorities, as well as the lack of religious freedom – rights groups have highlighted repression of the Christian, Tibetan Buddhist, Uyghur Muslim, and Falun Gong religious groups. Some Chinese activist groups are trying to expand these freedoms, including Human Rights in China, Chinese Human Rights Defenders, and the China Human Rights Lawyers Concern Group. Chinese human rights attorneys who take on cases related to these issues, however, often face harassment, disbarment, and arrest.

 

The concept of 'rule of law' has been emphasized in the constitution, and the ruling party has embarked on campaigns to promote the idea that citizens have protection under the law. At the same time, however, a fundamental contradiction exists in the constitution itself, in which the Communist Party insists that its authority supersedes that of the law.[15] Thus, the constitution enshrines the rule of law, yet simultaneously stresses the principle that the 'leadership of the Communist Party' holds primacy over the law.

 

The judiciary is not independent of the Communist Party, and judges face political pressure; in many instances, private party committees dictate the outcome of cases.  In this way, the CPC effectively controls the judiciary through its influence.. This influence has produced a system often described as 'rule by law' (alluding to the CPC's power), rather than rule of law.  Moreover, the legal system lacks protections for civil rights, and often fails to uphold due process.   

 

The People's Republic of China is the only country which currently abuses psychiatry for political purposes in a systematic way, and despite international criticism, this abuse seems to be continuing as of 2010...People who are imprisoned for their political views, human rights activities or religious beliefs have a high risk of being tortured.  The Government of the People's Republic of China has argued that its concept of 'Asian values' requires that the welfare of the collective should always be put ahead of the rights of any individual whenever conflicts between these arise.

 

Freedom House rates China as a 6 (the second lowest possible rank) in political freedoms.

 

https://en.wikipedia...rights_in_China

 

If you're the least bit interested (which I already know you're not)  in the details of how China brutally oppresses religious and ethnic minorities,  women, immigrants, workers, and human rights in general, then read the entire wiki article cited here.

 

Ya looking for "social responsibility?"  Well, then, China is the ticket, sho nuff!


Edited by Moronium, 18 March 2019 - 06:44 AM.


#8 VictorMedvil

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 03:10 AM

I would suggest that nearly anything is possible with Trump's low intelligent base. But I suspect (fear) that his base won't be sufficient to carry him through. 

 

An ace in the hole for Trump at this point in time is going to be the upping of the demonization of China. That is a play that can be successful with more people than just his low intelligence base. The tactic can be used as successfully as it was used by Hitler's demonization of the Jews. The failing of that tactic in the 21st. century is the prohibiting of allout world war because of MAD and nuclear weapons.

 

Social justice in America is the only winning strategy for America's future and that is the furthest issue from Trump's fatally flawed psychotic mind.

 

4 more years! 

 

edit: I'm suggesting that China will overtake the US in the near future. The only hope for the US to ramain anywhere near equal and peaceable is in coopertion with China. Everything else will be a losing strategy. 

 

The United States will not fall the china, China doesn't have the technological nor Industrial base like the United States, The US was on the same par as china today about 30 years ago to say the Chinese are back in the 90s with much of their military technology and industrial technology, they don't really pose a threat now Russia and China is another thing, but I could Always bring the Europeans into this discussion which makes Russia and China vastly weaker than NATO in general as the Europeans are closer to being on Par with the United States than China. So basically to say, over our dead bodies, There would be a nuclear war way before China was able to overtake The United States.


Edited by VictorMedvil, 17 March 2019 - 03:13 AM.


#9 Flummoxed

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 04:00 AM

Your extreme hatred of America has always been apparent, and certainly doesn't surprise me that you are rooting for China to supplant the the USA.

 

 

 

 

The irony of it is that you try to justify your hatred on the basis of the USA's alleged lack of social responsibility.  You prefer China, which has one of most oppressive regimes on the planet and routinely shows its "social responsibility" by depriving its residents of basic human rights:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...rights_in_China

 

If you're the least bit interested (which I already know you're not)  in the details of how China brutally oppresses religious and ethnic minorities,  women, immigrants, workers, and human rights in general, then read the entire wiki article cited here.

 

Ya looking for "social responsibility?"  Well, then, China is the ticket, sho nuff!

 

Did you know that America is Amnesties list, https://www.cnbc.com...ns-in-2017.html



#10 Moronium

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 04:35 AM

Did you know that America is Amnesties list, https://www.cnbc.com...ns-in-2017.html

 

 

Yeah, so?  They are classical left wing Trump haters, what else is new?

 

Criticism of Amnesty International includes claims of excessive pay for management, underprotection of overseas staff, associating with organizations with a dubious record on human rights protection, selection bias, ideological and foreign policy bias against either non-Western countries[102] or Western-supported countries, or even bias for terrorist groups,[103] as well as criticism of Amnesty's policies relating to abortion.[104][105] A recent report also shows an internal toxic work environment.

.

https://en.wikipedia...d_controversies

 

You think that makes China better than the USA on human rights and "social justice" issues?  Think again.


Edited by Moronium, 17 March 2019 - 05:30 AM.


#11 Flummoxed

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 08:55 AM

Yeah, so?  They are classical left wing Trump haters, what else is new?

 

.

https://en.wikipedia...d_controversies

 

You think that makes China better than the USA on human rights and "social justice" issues?  Think again.

 

I only pointed out that America is on the list of human rights abusers as well as China, whom you clearly have something against. Water boarding is a torture I understand was invented by the Chinese, using it away from American soil, does not make it any nicer.

 

If a country wants to use torture they should be on amnesties list, wouldn't you agree ? 



#12 Moronium

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 09:11 AM

I only pointed out that America is on the list of human rights abusers as well as China, whom you clearly have something against. 

 

My contrast with China was based solely on Monty's suggestion that it was far superior to the USA in terms of "social justice."

 

As far as torture goes, I'm all for it, under the right circumstances.

 

 

If you haven't seen the movie, the "suspect" revealed where the dying girl was, god bless him.


Edited by Moronium, 17 March 2019 - 09:12 AM.


#13 montgomery

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:02 AM

Your extreme hatred of America has always been apparent, and certainly doesn't surprise me that you are rooting for China to supplant the the USA.

 

 

 

 

The irony of it is that you try to justify your hatred on the basis of the USA's alleged lack of social responsibility.  You prefer China, which has one of most oppressive regimes on the planet and routinely shows its "social responsibility" by depriving its residents of basic human rights:[/quote]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great comments Moronium! I couldn't have asked for better. My hate for the US is not it's lack of social responsibility, simply because that doesn't effect me negatively. My hate is based nearly 100% of the US's military aggression and the slaughter of innocents in foreign lands who don't subscribe to US political ideology.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...rights_in_China

 

If you're the least bit interested (which I already know you're not)  in the details of how China brutally oppresses religious and ethnic minorities,  women, immigrants, workers, and human rights in general, then read the entire wiki article cited here.

 

But Moronium, China has elevated hundreds of millions of it's people up out of poverty, to a degree that has never been duplicated in the earth's history. I would suggest that China has been justified in lopping off the heads of political dissidents within their ranks in order to bring about the overall good they have succeeded in bringing. And now Moronium, fwiw, socialism is the way of the future and it's closely related to communism. We need to talk about the new way many Americans are finding of late.

 

Ya looking for "social responsibility?"  Well, then, China is the ticket, sho nuff!

 

Yes, sho nuff! For the greater good, as I've just explained. The greater good for hundreds of millions as weighed against the brutal measures found necessary to deal with political dissidents within.


Ya looking for "social responsibility?"  Well, then, China is the ticket, sho nuff!



#14 montgomery

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 11:09 AM

Communism evolved to become socialism, which evolves to become socially responsible capitalism. All three steps are necessary for a third world country as it gradually moves up to become among the ranks of the first world countries. 

 

Without the three necessary steps we see examples such as Haiti or most other third world hellholes with which the US has interfered.

 

Vietnam's success in defeating the US proves to be an exception, expressly because they didn't lose the fight. Cuba too is an exception even though they are still struggling to eliminate US interference and dirty tricks. Not for much longer though in Cuba because China has come to their rescue! 



#15 Moronium

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 02:19 PM

I would suggest that China has been justified in lopping off the heads of political dissidents within their ranks in order to bring about the overall good 

 

 

 

Spoken like a true hard-core commie, sho nuff.

 

The goal of effectuating "land redistribution" certainly "justifies" exterminating 50 million peasants at random, eh?

 

In official study materials published in 1948, Mao envisaged that "one-tenth of the peasants" (or about 50,000,000) "would have to be destroyed" to facilitate agrarian reform.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...mmunist_regimes

 

And you want to pontificate about "social justice," eh?


Edited by Moronium, 17 March 2019 - 02:30 PM.


#16 montgomery

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 03:08 PM

Spoken like a true hard-core commie, sho nuff.

 

The goal of effectuating "land redistribution" certainly "justifies" exterminating 50 million peasants at random, eh?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia...mmunist_regimes

 

And you want to pontificate about "social justice," eh?

China has raised hundreds of millions up out of poverty. That's an accomplishment that capitalism can never claim to be able to accomplish, just by it's very nature. You know that too don't you.

 

Communism is a stepping stone to socialism and socialism is a stepping stone to socially responsible capitalism. Supposing there is really any difference in the two latter.

 

You're a reasonably smart person, tell me something I don't know. something enlightening?

 

You're too smart to be among  the last to understand that the American way is a failure.

 

But in fairness to your priorities, if you insist we can also talk about America's crimes against humanity in which the US is guilty of the slaughter of tens of millions in the name of converting people to the American way of thinking politically.


Edited by montgomery, 17 March 2019 - 03:11 PM.


#17 Moronium

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Posted 17 March 2019 - 03:50 PM

You're too smart to be among  the last to understand that the American way is a failure.

 

Save it for your fellow-traveling commie comrades, eh?  They'll agree with you.