davdan

Please read the following: http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/30138-the-comprehensive-einstein-cosmology-model/?p=347881 It should give you basic understanding about the real solution for our Universe.

This is incorrect. The Universe does contain infinite amount of mass as its size is infinite (or at least close to infinite) and its age is also infinite. The science has no clue about the age of the galaxies or the age of stars. The SUN/Earth/Moon had been created at the same time from the same mass at the center of the galaxy. Actually, if we could verify the drifting time from the center of the galaxy, we could set their real age. I would estimate their age for at least 500 Billion years. The age of the Milky Way is much more than that.

Let me tell you clearly. There is no curvature and there is no need for it at infinite Universe as Einstein had stated. However, if this false idea helps the BBT, than it is O.K. In any case, do you have any idea from what kind of matter this curvature is made of?

Well, I assume that based on the BBT the curvature will tend to zero for infinitely large Universe. However, based on Einstein cosmology module there is no need for any sort of curvature to our infinite Universe - As I have already explained.

Yes, the main idea is to keep the radiation in the cavity. So, the hole is small enough to enable the radiation to get in, but prevent it from going out. The radiation should be reflected by the isolated interior wall and gets its unique black body signature.

Thanks I do appriciate all your efforts. Let me start with the black body radiation signature: Why are you using a black hole as an example? Please see the following information about black body: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body In this article, they don't use a black hole. They are using a hole in a cavity. The black body signature is a direct outcome of the radiation energy inside this cavity. So, please try to read pg. 14 and let me know why do you think that my explanation is incorrect. http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/30127-black-body-cmb-radiation-–-indication-for-infinite-universe-as-stated-by-einstein/?p=347798

O.K. Just for the record - let me summarize few obstacles of the BBT 1. Size/Quantity - After the inflation (10-32) the size of the early Universe was about 10 cm (as grapefruit) and it includes particles which could fit info 375 billion trillion galaxies. Is it feasible? 2. Speed - At the end of the inflation process, it is expected that the Universe will expand at lower speed. However, based on the data, at the end of the first second, the size of the universe was 4 LY which means an expansion speed of over 6 Million light speed. Is it feasible? 3. Density distribution - Due to the bang and the Ultra high momentum/speed it is expected that all the plasma will move out from the bang - in some sort of ball shell. So as the plasma is moving in all directions, In the middle - it is not expected to find any sort of plasma. Over time - it is expected that this aria should be clear from all mass/plasma. In all the experiments of bangs it was proved that there is no way to get a smooth density distribution. Hence, how could it be that the BBT set a nice density distribution in space (all over the Universe)? 4. Expansion reduction - At the age of 500,000 years, the size of the universe was 1,500,000 LY - which means a plasma speed of 1.5 Light speed. However, at the first second the speed was 6 Million the speed of light. Therefore we need to verify how could it be that there is so severe speed reduction - from 6 million to 1.5 light speed (reduction of 4 million times). Due to the momentum in space, it is not expected to see that kind of speed reduction. Please also remember that the inflation had ended long before the end of the first second. So, is it feasible? 5. Black body signature - when the age of the Universe was 380,000 years old, the plasma moves faster than the speed of light. At that speed, a photon can't meet the expanding early plasma edge. Therefore, from a photon point of view it is moving in an open space. An open space means no black body signature. 6. Why the science is not taking care about the moment before the Bang? What could be the natural process which leads to this magnificent bang? Why our scientists ignore this section? 7. Repeatable activities in the Nature - In our universe any natural activity is repeatable. Day, night, rain, snow, supernova… So, why the big bang is not repeatable? Why only one bang?

What is your mission? If you just wish to protect the BBT, then why should I upset you? If you had the willing to consider diffrent point of view and understand why Einstein cosmology model is correct, you could also understand why the BBT is incorrect. Let me help you: There is high semilarity between Life progress on Earth and Galaxies progress in space. In the past we belived that there was some sort of bang and then we have got all the versatility of life. That was valid till Darwin. He came with new idea. Our scientists at that time didn't like his approch. It was considered as a sever violation against Christianity. They have claimed that from scientific point of view - we can't be a product of a simple Ameba. It was important for them to highlight that there must be a diven power that set the life versatility. Now it is the same. They can't accept the idea that all of this wonderful Universe can be created out of small black hole. Just one rotatable black hole is needed to set our whole Universe. For someone which believes in diven power - this is atheism. They will fight on that. I really can't understand why it is so important for the Christianity to show that diven power is needed to our life. We can believe in god and in the same time believe in Darwin and Einstein cosmology model. It's time to disconnect diven power from science.

The inflation ends 10-32 after the bang. You confuse between Inflation and expansion. But again - if you wish to protect the BBT, then why should I upset you? Take it easy.

It is clear to me that your main mission is to protect the BBT under any circumstances, and you are not alone. What is there in the BBT that set the whole science community to protect it so strongly? The BBT is at the top, while Einstein is much lower and below. The science community is using Einstein equation as a mathematical proof for the BBT, but they reject all his messages which contradicts the BBT. So, what is there in the BBT that drives the whole community so strongly? It seems to me that if you want to consider yourself as a scientist, your first mission is to believe in the BBT. Actually, if you do not believe in the BBT you won't be considered as a scientist among the science community. Why? Normally - belief goes with religion. If you are Christian - you should believe in Jesus. If you are Islamic - you should believe in Mohammad. If you are Jew - you should believe in God. If you are scientist - you should believe in BBT. Does it mean that the BBT is some sort of religion? If so, then now your reply is quite clear. You have no interest in any other belief. You have no interest in any sort of Einstein cosmology model. You do not want to find any negative evidence for the BBT, as your main mission is to protect the BBT from those people (like me) which set a question mark above the BBT. But what is there in the BBT that you want to believe in it and protect it so strongly? What makes it different from many other theories? Is it because you understand that a diven power is needed to start the first process of the big bang? Is that the cause why the BBT do not try to give any scientific explanation for the moment before the bang? Somehow, in a fraction of a second, incredible quantity of practical -which can easily fit to 375,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 (375 Billion trillion) galaxies - had been created. Just think about this Idea, what a huge power is need for that... Who can set this quantity? How could it be? So, there is a moment before and a moment after. The BBT covers the moment after while the moment before - is under the diven power. Each one with his own diven power. I have heard that even to Pop excepts the BBT. So does it mean that if you are Christian you should believe in the BBT? After all of this - I have no intention to upset you. If you wish to believe - than please go on. Sorry for the interruption.

The current hypothesis about the expansion of the space and its impact, is fully clear to me for quite long time. However, I think that it is a manipulation. It was not part of the BBT as it was introduced at its first phase. As usual - is it one more patch (or fix) for this theory. I wonder how many times our scientists had to fix this theory in order to explain new unexpected discoveries. In any case, let's agree that we disagree on this issue. We are living in free countries and we can't force our opinion on each other. We can share. You also don't have to accept my explanation, but you can't force me to accept this kind of hypothesis. So please, let me know if you can continue the discussion based on our understanding that we disagree on this issue.

In the following article http://www.kheper.ne...se/universe.htm it is stated: 500,000 years 3000o K 1,500,000 LY It means that after 500,000 years the size of the universe is 1,500,000 Ly. So, the plasma is moving at higher speed than light. In this case, the photon moves slower than the plasma. So, from the photon point of view it is moving in an open space. Hence, it can't re-emitted by the edge of the plasma in the early universe life. Therefore - it is clear that there is no way to get a black body signature from the Universe when it was 380,000 year old!!! The science must find better solution for the black body signature.

In the article it is specifically related the "grapefruit" (or even bigger) to the inflation process: "Inflation is a general term for models of the very early Universe which involve a short period of extremely rapid (exponential) expansion, blowing the size of what is now the observable Universe up from a region far smaller than a proton to about the size of a grapefruit (or even bigger) in a small fraction of a second." They also give further information about the inflation process and highlight its size (sphere about 10 cm across): "This may sound modest, but it would mean that in 1032 of a second there were 100 doublings. This rapid expansion is enough to take a quantum fluctuation 1020 times smaller than a proton and inflate it to a sphere about 10 cm across in about 15 x 1033 seconds. At that point, the scalar field has done its work of kick-starting the Universe, and is settling down, giving up its energy and leaving a hot fireball expanding so rapidly that even though gravity can now begin to do its work of pulling everything back into a Big Crunch it will take hundreds of billions of years to first halt the expansion and then reverse it." So, there is same information as in the other article. They do not give any specific information about the expansion process from the end of the inflation (10 -32 of a second) to the end of the first second when it is believed that the size of the universe had been increased to 4 LY. I have no intention to argue, but if you have no real knowledge in this area why do you insist to explain something which isn't clear to you? Please would you kindly move on and consider the next issue.

No Mastin isn't lazy. They have made the calculation and set the size. However, for someone how want to believe, it is much more convenient to hide after a nice words as "Scale factor" and so no. The science do not give us the information about the real expansion from the Inflation phase (grapefruit size) to 4 Ly (just after one second). They just give us some nice words so the believers would believe. I personally have no intention to believe that "Scale factor could be an answer to a velocity which is 60 Million faster than the speed of light. There must be a severe mistake. The Universe can't technically expands from almost zero to 4 Ly in just one second. This is my personal understanding. In any case let's move on. In the following article http://www.kheper.net/cosmos/universe/universe.htm it is also stated: 500,000 years 3000o K 1,500,000 LY Now, after 500,000 years the size of the universe is 1,500,000 Ly. So, the average speed had been reduced dramatically to only 3 speed light. Please remember that objects keep their momentum in space. So how could it be that the speed had been reduced from about 6 Million Speed light to only 3 speed light, a relative speed reduction of 2 Million. Why? What about the expansion? Why it had been reduced so dramatically? Do you agree also for that?

http://www.physicsoftheuniverse.com/topics_bigbang_timeline.html

In the article there is clear information about the inflationary epoch as it is stated: "In physical cosmology the inflationary epoch was the period in the evolution of the early universe when, according to inflation theory, the universe underwent an extremely rapid exponential expansion. This rapid expansion increased the linear dimensions of the early universe by a factor of at least 1026 (and possibly a much larger factor), and so increased its volume by a factor of at least 1078. Expansion by a factor of 1026 is equivalent to expanding an object 1 nanometer (10-9 m, about half the width of a molecule of DNA) in length to one approximately 10.6 light years (about 62 trillion miles) long. The expansion is thought to have been triggered by the phase transition that marked the end of the preceding grand unification epoch at approximately 10−36 seconds after the Big Bang. One of the theoretical products of this phase transition was a scalar field called the inflaton field. As this field settled into its lowest energy state throughout the universe, it generated a repulsive force that led to a rapid expansion of space. This expansion explains various properties of the current universe that are difficult to account for without such an inflationary epoch." However, it is also stated when it ends: "It is not known exactly when the inflationary epoch ended, but it is thought to have been between 10−33 and 10−32 seconds after the Big Bang." At that moment, the size of the universe was as big as grapefruit: "Inflationary Epoch, from 10^–36 seconds to 10^–32 seconds: Triggered by the separation of the strong nuclear force, the universe undergoes an extremely rapid exponential expansion, known as cosmic inflation. The linear dimensions of the early universe increases during this period of a tiny fraction of a second by a factor of at least 10^26 to around 10 centimeters (about the size of a grapefruit)." So how can we explain the expansion from a grapefruit size to 4 light year size (in the first second)?

We are speaking about a theory. Based on the BBT the space expansion is only 67 kilometers per second. I have no problem that they will claim that it is faster. They could say that the space expansion is as high as 6 Million Light speed. In this case, we all must agree with the outcome. However, currently our scientists insist on 67 kilometers per second. Therefore, as long as this is the upper limit of the space expansion - a 6 Million speed of light is just not feasible. Why don't you agree with that?

In any case, when the unive How faster? Do you mean that the space expansion is 6 Million faster than the speed of light? I couldn't find any indication for that kind of expansion speed.

That Idea can give an explanation for the high speed (close to speed of light) of galaxies at the far end of the Universe. However, it can't explain a speed of 6,311,384 Light speed. So how can you accept the idea of such unrealistic speed?

Well, with regards to the expansion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_expansion_of_space the expansion of the universe has been measured using redshift to derive Hubble's Constant: H0 = 67.15 ± 1.2 (km/s)/Mpc. For every million parsecs of distance from the observer, the rate of expansion increases by about 67 kilometers per second You have to distinguish between short range and long rang. A 4 Ly is considered as a very short range. In this range the effect of the expansion is almost neglected. So please show me how can we achieve a speed of 6,311,384 Light speed at any sort of space expansion. If you can, please try to set a mathematical calculation.

Thanks Great article! The issue is quite clear. However, as I have stated: "I fully accept all the starting points of the BBT. However, after setting the starting points, now they have to prove that the process is feasible". So, our scientists have stated that just after the inflation the universe was at the size of grapefruit and it includes particles which could fit to about 357,000,000,000 trillion galaxies. In the following article: http://www.kheper.net/cosmos/universe/universe.htm it is stated that after one sec the size of the universe was 4 Light years (radius - 2 light years): 1 second 1x1010 4 light-years So, if after one year the radius of the Universe was 2 Light year, then we could assume that the velocity is double than the speed of light. But here – after just one second… 1 year = 31 556 926 seconds Hence, the velocity of the plasma is: V = 31 556 926 * 2 = 6,311,384 Light speed. Is it real? We know that nothing can move higher than a speed of light. So, How could it be?

Thanks. Well, I fully accept all the starting points of the BBT. However, after setting the starting points, now they have to prove that the process is feasible. For example: In the article it is stated: "Consider, for example, a cosmic microwave background (CMB) photon that was emitted as visible light about 379,000 years after the big bang and is just now hitting our microwave detectors (the redshift is z=1089):" So, in order to evaluate this information we need to know the following: What was the size of the universe when it was at age of 379,000 years? I would assume that it should be quite compact. If we know the expansion speed of the particles + the expansion of the space, we could calculate the estimated size. Any idea?

In the following article it is stated: https://ned.ipac.caltech.edu/level5/Sept02/Kinney/Kinney3.html 1. T ~ 1015 K, t ~ 10-12 sec: Primordial soup of fundamental particles. 2. T ~ 1013 K, t ~ 10-6 sec: Protons and neutrons form. 3. T ~ 1010 K, t ~ 3 min: Nucleosynthesis: nuclei form. 4. T ~ 3000 K, t ~ 300, 000 years: Atoms form. 5. T ~ 10 K, t ~ 109 years: Galaxies form. 6. T ~ 3 K, t ~ 1010 years: Today. A. How did we estimate the ratio between the temp and time? B. What was the size of the universe at those phases of time?

Please - without divine power, only real evidences.