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Sense Of Gravity In The Vr World Vs. In The Real World


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#1 zivtheawesome

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 01:19 AM

i am currentley reading the alicilization arc in sword art online. i just want to point out something they said in the books and it is that our sense of gravity (by the books) in the vr world is very much different then in the real world. I think we should make it one of the priorities of making a vr machine.


Edited by zivtheawesome, 04 July 2015 - 03:17 AM.


#2 CraigD

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 01:26 PM

i am currentley reading the alicilization arc in sword art online. i just want to point out something they said in the books and it is that our sense of gravity (by the books) in the vr world is very much different then in the real world.

Searching online English version of the SAO manga like this scribd document, I couldn’t find anything about an unusual sense of gravity. Can you give a link, of a volume and page number reference, Ziv :QuestionM:

#3 zivtheawesome

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Posted 04 July 2015 - 11:15 PM

Searching online English version of the SAO manga like this scribd document, I couldn’t find anything about an unusual sense of gravity. Can you give a link, of a volume and page number reference, Ziv :QuestionM:

CraigD,

 this is a paragraph from the second book of the alicilzation arc (alicilzation running page 104) in which they explain that:

 
“Unlike sight or hearing, part of the research on gravity and
balance was a little late. That’s because most of the signals rely on
gravity to adjust our brains, so those who aren’t used to it can’t move
as they please.”
 
of course that we can't know for sure this problem will occur, but just a point of thought, perhaps this info would be usefull in future developing of the machine/ programming.


#4 CraigD

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 06:08 AM

this is a paragraph from the second book of the alicilzation arc (alicilzation running page 104)…
“Unlike sight or hearing, part of the research on gravity and balance was a little late. That’s because most of the signals rely on gravity to adjust our brains, so those who aren’t used to it can’t move as they please.”

I woudn’t worry about the practical implications of this line from the SAO 10 light novel, because it’s not about practical problems about brain-computer interfaces or virtual reality programming.

Getting the context of this, I see it’s talking about Reki Kawahara’s fictional SAO universe’s artificial fluctlights, which are used to make “bottom up AIs”.

Kawahara’s seems to have taken Roger Penrose and Stuart Hammeroff fringe, but real scientific theory about consciousness and the brain, orchestrated objective reduction, mixed in the religious idea of souls, taken artistic licenser with some major quatum mechanical impossibilities, and invented the term “fluctlights” for the evanescent photons Penrose and Hammeroff speculate exist in microtubules in the brain, and give rise to consciousness. Kawahara seems to suggest, via his caracters, that fluctlights not only interact with nerve impulse caused by sense organs, but directly perceive acceleration, an idea I’ve seen in some English language science fiction that links consciousness, souls, and gravity.

Penrose and Hammeroff’s idea is a quantum mind hypothesis, which comes from the new mysterianism philosophical position, which is a rejection of the computational theory of mind position.

Kawahara’s idea, though based on Penrose and Hammeroff’s, are IMHO pure fantasy. It’s philosophically deep and thought provoking, but shouldn’t be considered serious scientific speculation.

#5 zivtheawesome

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 06:20 AM

actually at this specific part Kikuoka (kirito's employer) have spoken about the problem he had with the nervegear "it was  the same kind of discomfort as mine when I

first used the Nerve Gear to test the closed beta of SAO.” so the problem wasn't in the STL but in the first NG.


#6 weamy

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 01:31 AM

i am currentley reading the alicilization arc in sword art online. i just want to point out something they said in the books and it is that our sense of gravity (by the books) in the vr world is very much different then in the real world. I think we should make it one of the priorities of making a vr machine.

 

I would search up "Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation". It affects balance which could be used to imitate gravity (-ish).



#7 NotBrad

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 08:29 AM

I would search up "Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation". It affects balance which could be used to imitate gravity (-ish).

I think some audio company has developed(or is developing) a headset that has that tech built in, it's marketed directly to VR as I recall.



#8 CraigD

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 11:46 AM

I would search up "Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation". It affects balance which could be used to imitate gravity (-ish).

Wow, this technology has come a long way from its late 1700s origins, when Luigi Galvani invented the battery and spent 20 years running currents through various body parts of living and dead nonhuman and human animals! This 2005 NBCNews article describes work by Taro Maeda, then at NTT Communication, where they were able to effectively steer people around by causing a false “leaning” sensation using GVS. Madea’s been an IT professor at Osaka U since 2007, so I’m not sure what’s become of the NTT work, but he seems to still be involved in GVS, having published a paper with it in the title in 2012.

As the NBCNews article mentions, there’s no confident theory of how GVS works, which clearly hinders its development. The 2011 paper "What Does Galvanic Vestibular Stimulation Actually Activate?" by Bernard Cohen, Sergei Yakushin and Gay Holstein leans toward an explanation suggesting it’s application is limited, because it effects only vestibular system nerves that produce leaning (the otholithic organs), not rotating (the ampullary cupulae), sensations, but even if limited, it seems to me it could nicely enhance VR experiences. According to the NBCNews article, people were enjoying it (some people – other found it dizzying and unpleasant) in demonstration race car and music/dancing games back in 2005.

I’ve long wondered it a system that stimulated the vestibular system not by directly electrifying its nerves, but by moving the its fluid, could provide an immersive simulation of linear and angular acceleration. Perhaps a magnetic field could be used to precisely “stir” it, much like magnetic lab stirrer works. A ferromagnetic fluid could be injected into inner ear, or perhaps a strong enough field could move the water in the fluid sufficiently without this.

I think It’s important to understand, though, that the sensation of gravity – of “which way is down” – isn’t entirely, or even mostly, due to the vestibular system. We also sense it through the force exerted by our legs, limbs, and other body parts. So a VR system that doesn’t directly interface with the brain to replace normal nerve input would need not only to fiddle with the vestibular system, but with the body’s many proprioceptor nerves, either by stimulating them artificially, or by pushing and pulling on body parts. I imagined the latter kind of system in this post, this one and this one, which I call a “deep dive waldo” system.
 

I think some audio company has developed(or is developing) a headset that has that tech built in, it's marketed directly to VR as I recall.

Again Wow.

I think you’re referring to an experimental gadget from Samsung called the Entrim 4D. I don’t think you can buy one yet (hence the “experimental” part), but the article I linked to said they were being publicly demoed in a month ago in the South by Southwest vestival in Austin TX.

#9 NotBrad

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 12:23 PM

-snip-
 
Again Wow.

I think you’re referring to an experimental gadget from Samsung called the Entrim 4D. I don’t think you can buy one yet (hence the “experimental” part), but the article I linked to said they were being publicly demoed in a month ago in the South by Southwest vestival in Austin TX.

I wasn't sure, but I think those are the headphones I saw online, possibly even that page. I really hope somebody other than Samsung picks up this tech, in my humble opinion they should stick to the TV market... Well I mean how can I not take a few jabs at Samsung users, IT IS MY SWORN DUTY AS AN APPLE USER WHO HAS NEVER OWNED A SINGLE SAMSUNG PRODUCT THAT HASN'T BROKEN. I mean technically, the TV breaking wasn't a failure on their part, but all their other products are garbage. Have a samsung microwave and a button quite literally collapsed backwards into the housing, and I hadn't even pushed the button hard enough yet to make it turn off. Our Samsung stove fried itself on three separate occasions due to power outages, and my TV wasn't fist proof! Not even kidding, I mean of course these damn panels ought to be designed to deflect a fist!



#10 tardis

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Posted 30 June 2017 - 04:09 AM

hey guys how are u doin? :) 

 

I think this gravity sense is sometimes can be felt with the pressure as well....... i mean that  by a stronger gravity field, more the force u need to move your body. i think it can be sensed with the ears 3d system too.( there is  a minor effect )