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Bronze Age Impact Event: New Evidence


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#1 Essay

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:07 AM

*
"...have allowed us to interpret the 4kyr BP dust-event as the fallout of a distal impact-ejecta rather than a sudden drought.


I ran across this recently, and wondered if there is any archaeological, historical/biblical, or anectodal records of dramatic changes in the time following this impact event.
===

*
Posted Image
....still studying soils and their (recently recognized) strong influence upon climate;
...but impact events affect climate too....


*New Trends in Soil Micromorphology
Kapur, S., Mermut, A. R., Stoops, Georges
Published: 2008
LC Call Number: S593.2 /.N48 /2008
Hardcover, ISBN 978-3-540-79133-1

"...have allowed us to interpret the 4kyr BP dust-event as the fallout of a distal impact-ejecta rather than a sudden drought.

"...link the fallout of the far-traveled dust with high temperature effects at the soil surface and violent deflation of surface horizons by high speed winds."

"Results are based on soil data from the Eastern Khabur basin (North-East Syria), the Vera Basin (Spain), and the lower Moche Valley (West Peru) compared with a new study at the reference site of Ebeon (West France)."

"In the four regions studied, the intact 4kyr BP signal is identified as a discontinuous burnt soil surface with an exotic dust assemblage assigned to the distal fallout of an impact-ejecta."

"Studies showed how a high quality signal allows [science] to discriminate the short-term severe landscape disturbances linked to the exceptional 4 kyr BP dust event from more gradual environmental changes triggered by climate shift at the same time."

http://espace.library.curtin.edu.au/R/?func=dbin-jump-full&object_id=118212&local_base=GEN01-ERA02

The co-occurrence of a sharp dust peak, low lake levels, forest reduction, and ice retreat at ca. 4-kyr BP throughout tropical Africa and West Asia have been widely explained as the effect of an abrupt climate change. The detailed study of soils and archaeological records provided evidence to re-interpret the 4 kyr BP dust event linked rather to the fallback of an impact-ejecta, but not climate change. Here we aim to further investigate the exceptional perturbation of the soil-landscapes widely initiated by the 4 kyr BP dust event. Results are based on soil data from the eastern Khabur basin (North-East Syria), the Vera Basin (Spain), and the lower Moche Valley (West Peru) compared with a new study at the reference site of Ebeon (West France). The quality of the 4 kyr BP dust signal and the related environmental records are investigated through a micromorphological study of pedo-sedimentary micro-fabrics combined with SEM-microprobe, mineralogical, and geochemical analyses.

In the four regions studied, the intact 4 kyr BP signal is identified as a discontinuous burnt soil surface with an exotic dust assemblage assigned to the distal fallout of an impact-ejecta. Its unusual two-fold micro-facies is interpreted as (1) flash heating due to pulverization of the hot ejecta cloud at the soil surface, and (2) high energy deflation caused by the impact-related air blast. Disruption of the soil surface is shown to have been rapidly followed by a major de-stabilisation of the soil cover. Local factors and regional settings have exerted a major control on the timing, duration, and magnitude of landscape disturbances. Studies showed how a high quality signal allows to discriminate the short-term severe landscape disturbances linked to the exceptional 4 kyr BP dust event from more gradual environmental changes triggered by climate shift at the same time.


just fyi....

http://www.springer.com/earth+sciences+and+geography/earth+system+sciences/book/978-3-540-79133-1

The book contains state of the art new research results in micromorphology as well as other disciplines of soil science. It provides very useful up-to-date information for researchers, educators, graduate students interested in microscopic and submicroscopic studies of soils and sediments. In the past, micromorphology has been considered almost solely as a descriptive and interpretative branch of science. Attempts are now made to obtain quantitative data. There has been much progress in applying soil micromorphology in Quaternary geology, in particular identifying and characterizing palaeosols. The new areas for soil micromorphology are soil ecology, materials sciences and archaeology.


There is lots of literature about shifting civilizations, as well as the climate shifting, at ~4000 BP.
Googled: trend in climate "4,000 years BP"
===

This could help explain observations in both climate history and anthropology.


http://www.stanford.edu/~meehan/donnellyr/3000bc.html
4000 BC: Global; Holocene delta development worldwide
Holocene delta development worldwide transgressive sequence of deltaic deposits

4000 BC: Mesopotamia; Mesopotamia delta Stratigraphic relations by the author showing the rapid development of a rich, fertile delta in Mesopotamia



...also
http://hol.sagepub.c.../1/117.abstract
"Our results show that this aridification trend began around 8000 yr BP, and culminated around 4000 yr BP."

...and
http://www.sciencedi...033589499921087

Title:
"Age-constrained pollen data and magnetic susceptibility of an alpine peat profile from the Garhwal Higher Himalaya display a continuous record of climate and monsoon trends for the past 7800 yr."

About 7800 cal yr B.P., dominance of evergreen oak (Quercus semecarpifolia), alder (Alnus), and grasses in the pollen record reflect a cold, wet climate with moderate monsoon precipitation. From 7800 to 5000 cal yr B.P., vegetation was progressively dominated by conifers, indicating ameliorated climate with a stronger monsoon. A warm, humid climate, with highest monsoon intensity, from 6000–4500 cal yr B.P. represents the mid-Holocene climatic optimum. Between 4000 and 3500 cal yr B.P., the abundance of conifers sharply decreased, with the greatest increase in evergreen oak. This trend suggests progressive cooling, with a decrease in the monsoon to its minimum about 3500 cal yr B.P. Two relatively minor cold/dry events at ca. 3000 and 2000 cal yr B.P. marked step-wise strengthening of the monsoon until ca. 1000 cal yr B.P. After a cold/dry episode that culminated ca. 800 cal yr B.P., the monsoon again strengthened and continued until today.

A sharp decrease in temperature and rainfall at 4000–3500 cal yr B.P. represents the weakest monsoon event of the Holocene record. This cold/dry event correlates with proxy data from other localities of the Indian subcontinent, Arabian Sea, and western Tibet.


http://books.google.com/books?id=ZWNtHLz3fXYC&pg=PA99&lpg=PA99&dq=trend+in+climate+%224,000+years+BP%22&source=bl&ots=mpQkp1Wjjg&sig=9vlxFibLEQOmGaBJynfs1dKneX8&hl=en#

"Forest Ecosystems" By David A. Perry
"In the eastern North America.... A very warm and dry period from 8000 to 4000 years BP produced major changes in vegetation patterns.... The cooling trend that began approximately 4000 years BP readjusted these boundaries to roughly those we see today.

Similar changes occurred in western North America."

"A major warming trend beginning around 8000 BP was accompanied by both the appearance of Douglas-fir and an increase in fire frequency. With the return to a cooler, moister climate around 4000 BP, fire frequency declined and community composition shifted to western hemlock/red cedar/Douglas-fir, a forest type that persists today."

===

From Peru to Syria, "...the intact 4kyr BP signal is identified as ...the distal fallout of an impact-ejecta."

Wow!

I'd appreciate any links that highlight what civilizations (or agriculture/mining) were doing around that time, which might be related to any effects from an impact event--such as these high temperature effects at the soil surface and violent deflation of surface horizons by high speed winds."

~ ;)

#2 Turtle

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:48 AM

[quote name='Essay' timestamp='1319782053' post='311515']
From Peru to Syria, "...the intact 4kyr BP signal is identified as ...the distal fallout of an impact-ejecta."

Wow!

I'd appreciate any links that highlight what civilizations (or agriculture/mining) were doing around that time, which might be related to any effects from an impact event--such as these high temperature effects at the soil surface and violent deflation of surface horizons by high speed winds."

~ ;)
[/quote]

i don't see any mention of irridium, which is an often used identifier of impact deposits. note that volcanos can deposit iridium as well. as i recall, other things expected from an impact would be helium 3 and carbon nanospheres. can't remember the gal's name that is a specialist in this analysis. :doh:

anyway, found these bits for you. >> :read:

No Evidence for Climate-Perturbing Cosmic Impact Around 4000 BC
[quotename='doug keenan']The following was posted on the Cambridge Conference Network (24 September 1999).

The soil analysis of Courty [1998]. Courty reports the absence of the materials usually associated with a cosmic impact: this is evidence against such an impact. (M.A. Courty [private comm.] has agreed that a possible explanation for her data--which shows intense burn - is an eruption whose ejecta contained oil/gas; no other credible explanation has been suggested, as far as I know.)
...This obviously does not mean that there wasn't a climate-perturbing cosmic impact c. 4000 BP. I believe, though, that there is no evidence available specifically for such an event.

Cheers, Doug Keenan [/quote]

much more at that source. :sherlock:

here's a few leads on what cultures were up to. >> 40th century BCE @ wiki

#3 Sunshine 2118

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:53 AM

[color="#FF0000"]*

I'd appreciate any links that highlight what civilizations (or agriculture/mining) were doing around that time, which might be related to any effects from an impact event--such as these high temperature effects at the soil surface and violent deflation of surface horizons by high speed winds."

~ ;)



Hi, Essay thank you for introducing me to your post. I hadn’t heard of a possible impact causal effect for all the disruptions in the Middle East nearing the Early Bronze Age (EBA I). The evidence of the downfalls is extensive and well known. The links to such information would be vast and rather easy to find on the net. Instead of links, I offer some of the best source experts in the field for you. To lead you on your own search, if you really need supporting links. I hope you don’t mind.

In Egypt, just within the last decade there has been growing understanding of the loss of delta townships due to drought within that 4,000BP era. At the time of the infamous 6th dynasty that saw the collapse of the Old Kingdom. The latest book by Dr. Toby Wilkinson (2010) mentions the drought on page 97. It is a notable mention as it offers for the first time a real scientific possible reason. Instead of the normal speculation, the field historically had been limited.

In 2008, a documentary was done titled “Why Ancient Egypt Fell?” It deals with the result of the drought at the time considered due to climate change.

With the growing understanding based upon science not speculation the old bad guy theories of the Middle East- the Amorites are beginning to collapse (Redford 1992: 62-65)in the Levant.

While the events of our time in Iraq, has greatly reduced the ability for scholarly in-depth investigation into the fall of the Akkadian, the first true empire of Mesopotamia founded by Sargon the Great. It’s fall normally dated to ca. 2200 is usually blamed upon the mega mania of King Naram Sin and his demand to be treated as god on earth. I do believe a more scientific suggestion one day, will be considered and supported by the evidence.

The growing consensus appears to be that drought caused vast changes throughout my area of study, but the cause is yet unknown. Leading to an increased rejection of whimsical and invented reasons as to why the empires of the time failed and this is only good.


Since the impact theory was so new to me, I did take some time looking for links to supporting information. I enclose what I consider to be some of the better links for consideration by others, if interested.

http://www.mendeley....orthwest-china/ suggests there are other research programs that are finding agreement.

http://www.barry.war...m/4related.html unable to support the sites underlying premise it does contain real and usable source citations.

http://cassiopaea.or...pic=7318.0;wap2 offers more evidence and suggestions for further investigation.


What a cool way to spend time, thanks again Essay :) Have a good day :)

Please consider adding your vote to my poll question in history, I would appreciate it.

#4 Sunshine 2118

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:23 PM

Greetings Turtle, I considered your post and visited the link, very interesting thank you. Then I have been enjoying many of your other posts.

Now for the not so sunny-side IMHO, and I assure you it is very humble in reality.

The date of 1999, is getting old when compared to newer publications such as Essay’s "New Trends in Soil Micromorphology" (2008) and some of the sites I visited earlier investigating the possibility.

Then there is the timespan (from the link) - spanning from 2,900BCE to 1,600BCE. Those dates give a substantial gap of time, in looking for an event dating closer to 4,000BP or 2,000BCE.

The 1,600 date is the furthest, I would dare to consider as viable for a comparison to 2,000BCE.

In most cases, Wiki is an excellent resource and has only gotten better over the years. Thanks for inserting the link.


2118

#5 Turtle

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 11:43 PM

Greetings Turtle, I considered your post and visited the link, very interesting thank you. Then I have been enjoying many of your other posts.

Now for the not so sunny-side IMHO, and I assure you it is very humble in reality.

The date of 1999, is getting old when compared to newer publications such as Essay’s "New Trends in Soil Micromorphology" (2008) and some of the sites I visited earlier investigating the possibility.

Then there is the timespan (from the link) - spanning from 2,900BCE to 1,600BCE. Those dates give a substantial gap of time, in looking for an event dating closer to 4,000BP or 2,000BCE.

The 1,600 date is the furthest, I would dare to consider as viable for a comparison to 2,000BCE.

In most cases, Wiki is an excellent resource and has only gotten better over the years. Thanks for inserting the link.


2118


what is 2118?

anyway, either there is iridium in these layers essay's book refers to as from ~4000 bce, or there is not; the age of my reference notwithstanding. the dates you question are for known seismic events, and not specifically impact caused seismic events. i think the reason it is put up as an argument against a 4000 bce impact and/or volcanic event is that no catastrophic event deposits are known for that time. as in, these are the dates of identified catastrophic deposits closest to the date of inquiry.

essay, did they even look for iridium? is it mentioned? it's pretty standard impact analysis. :shrug:

i haven't found the source again on the gal who is finding carbon nano-spheres with helium 3 in them -a sure sign of an extraterrestrial origin- but i have some sources here in one or more of our threads on impacts. i'll look those references up if you want them. it's rather a new technique so i doubt such analysis has been done on the soils in question, but having not read the book i can only guess. essay? anything in there on he3 in buckyballs?

#6 Turtle

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:18 AM

[quote name='Essay' timestamp='1319782053' post='311515']
*
"...have allowed us to interpret the 4kyr BP dust-event as the fallout of a distal impact-ejecta rather than a sudden drought.


I ran across this recently, and wondered if there is any archaeological, historical/biblical, or anectodal records of dramatic changes in the time following this impact event.
...[/quote]

ok. i found one of my references on the helium 3 in fullerenes. the event under discussion is this case is earlier than ~4000 bce, but you can search "Luann Becker" for more details on this type of analysis of impact ejecta. :turtle: :read:

Ancient Meteor Blast May Have Caused Extinctions, Report UC Santa Barbara Scientists
[quotename='standard newswire']Contact: Luann Becker, 206-465-1005, lbecker@crustal.ucsb.edu; Gail Gallessich, 805-893-7220, gail.g@ia.ucsb.edu

...The scientific team visited over a dozen archaeological sites in North America where they found high concentrations of iridium, an element that is rare on Earth, and is almost exclusively associated with meteors. They found microspherules of glass-like carbon, which form at high temperatures and are thought to be a result of the impact blast. Also present were another type of impact tracer -- carbon molecules called fullerenes with gases trapped inside....[/quote]

#7 Sunshine 2118

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 10:44 AM

what is 2118?

anyway, either there is iridium in these layers essay's book refers to as from ~4000 bce, or there is not; the age of my reference notwithstanding. the dates you question are for known seismic events, and not specifically impact caused seismic events. i think the reason it is put up as an argument against a 4000 bce impact and/or volcanic event is that no catastrophic event deposits are known for that time. as in, these are the dates of identified catastrophic deposits closest to the date of inquiry.



What is 2118? It is part of my screen name. Thank you for your explanation it is appreciated. Let me continue briefly since my field is the Bronze Age Middle East.

One of things I enjoy about science is its absolutes are only absolute until more knowledge that disproves what had been known, turns up. Could it be, iridium from impacts is limited to a certain type of impact for some yet unknown reason, and the fact is Turtle, I don't know. This un-knowledge makes some science more than just factoids for me.

The destruction of Middle Eastern civilization was so complete in the years between 2,200 and 1900BCE it is understandable that people look for reasons. The proof of seismic destruction of human civilizations is worse than null. Peru, Italy, Japan to name a few of the major civilizations facing seismic destruction, all manage to thrive despite the constant threat of seismic destruction.

Cosmic destruction offered another and viable reason, for the destruction of writing human Middle Eastern civilizations during that 300-year period of mass destruction.

My preference remains climate change, because of the total length of time the destruction took to show effect, but until more information (knowledge) is obtain- I remain open to causal reasons. In the case of Middle Eastern, Bronze Age destruction ca. 2,000BCE almost anything is better than the excuses traditionally offered by early scholars for the destruction.

2118

#8 Essay

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:55 PM

essay, did they even look for iridium? is it mentioned? it's pretty standard impact analysis. :shrug:


Well, these folks are soil scientists. But they do add this note at the end of their chapter:

"The detailed analytical characterization of the impact signal will be presented elsewhere." -p.234

This seems fairly well confirmed as some sort of impact ejecta....
But here are some more quotes from:
New Trends in Soil Micromorphology
Kapur, S., Mermut, A. R., Stoops, Georges
Published: 2008
Call Number: S593.2 /.N48 /2008


"Various types of sulphates (Ca, Mg, Sr, Ba), and chlorides (K, Na) occur together with iron sulphide, phosphide, phosphate, and silicon-phosphate either as inclusions within the glassy debris or as individual grains. --p.219

"The debris assemblage also comprises dumbbell millimetre-sized reddish brown to dark brown, carbonaceous aggregates with highly resistant, charred fine roots." --p.219

"It comprises the full range of spherules, droplets, teardrops and dumbbells that are often welded, glazed vesicular beads with an irregular shiny, sub-metallic, greyish-yellow surface spread with spherules, and grey vesicular fragmented beads." --p.219

"Vesicular beads showing partial devitrification and igneous-like coarse-textured re-crystallization are frequent. Black vesicular carbonaceous grains are common, and green carbonaceous materials associated with metallic deposits...." --p.219

"The direct stratigraphic continuity between the two microfacies and the lack of turbation of the incinerated burnt layer suggest the flash heating to have immediately been followed by violent wind swirls. The explosive fragmentation of coarse ejecta masses could have triggered the hot air turbulence, thus producing at a small scale the expected effects of impact air blast (Kring 1997, Kring & Druda 2002)." --p.225

"Fig. 7: Pulverization of the hot ejecta cloud at the soil surface. (a) Charred fine root... (d) Vesicular glass bead... (g) Melted bone fragment showing injection of a metal-rich carbonaceous impact glass within the osteocytes." --p.221 (picture captions)
"Melted bone fragment showing injection of a metal-rich carbonaceous impact glass within the osteocytes." WOW!!!

"The timing of the dust event related to the impact-pulverization process at the ground surface appears abrupt and rather short from the succession of the pedosedimentary micro-fabrics.... The maximum phase of dust remobilization occurred at the paroxysm of the 4 kyr BP event and persisted for some years due to the fragility of the soil-landscapes before the regeneration of the soil cover was completed. The occurrence of glass shards typical of the 4 kyr BP exotic assemblage (Cullen et al. 2000) confirms that the spike from core M5-422 in the Arabian Gulf can be assigned to the distinctive 4 kyr BP dust." --p.233

"Water-transport and accumulation in micro-depressions of the exotic microdebris suggests the rainfall increase to not have lasted more than a few months." --p.227

"...climate expresses significant acidification, possibly triggered by the impact-induced changes in atmospheric chemistry... ...from the production of nitrous oxides and other chemicals due to the injection in the upper atmosphere of carbon-rich aerosols (Toon et al. 1997). The incorporation of black carbon into the clay coatings also suggests acidification by the carbonaceous aerosols remaining in suspension at great altitude before being washed by rainwater." --p.227

"In contrast to the widely accepted occurrence of a rapid climate change during the 4200-3800yr BP time interval (Mayewski et al. 2004), we propose that the widespread pronounced environmental changes recorded at about 4 kyr BP correspond to the direct and indirect consequences of the 4 kyr BP impact-ejecta fallback." --p.233

"This distinctive event might have exerted an influence on the global climate, in particular through injection in the upper atmosphere of volatile components and carbon-rich aerosols, known to induce cloud condensation nuclei effects and albedo changes (Toon et al. 1997)." --p.233

ALSO....

2.5 The Neolithic Ditch Fill At Chemin Saint-Jean, France:
"The ditch dug into late Jurassic clay-rich limestone occupies a high position in the weakly undulating landscape. The Regosol of about 50 cm thick shows only weak horizonation due to deep ploughing up to the underlying limestone. The distinct burnt layers contrast from the underlying and overlying filling units by their fine texture and low amount of coarse limestone fragments derived from the collapse of the unstable ditch sides." --p.217

Cool! There was a neolithic ditch showing signs of anthropological use, before and after the event.
===

Some more sources!!!

http://www.epoc.u-bo..._et_al_2009.pdf

Note: fig.2 (and caption); & table 1; & p.9; & p.10 (5.2.2.3 hypsithermal 2)
This has amazing details on Antarctic Holocene climate!!!
===

Below: an Author's Copy of some new book chapter!

This chapter was originally published in the book Interpretation of Micromorphological Features of Soils and Regoliths. The copy attached is provided by Elsevier for the author’s benefit and for the benefit of the author’s institution, for non-commercial research, and educational use. This includes without limitation use in instruction at your institution, distribution to specific colleagues, and providing a copy to your institution’s administrator.

From Nicolas Fedoroff, Palaeosoils and Relict Soils.
In: Georges Stoops, Vera Marcelino and Florias Mees, editors,
Interpretation of Micromorphological Features
of Soils and Regoliths.

Elsevier, 2010, p. 623.
ISBN: 978-0-444-53156-8.
© Copyright 2010, Elsevier B.V.
Elsevier.

http://sourcedb.cas.cn/sourcedb_igg_cas/cn/zjrck/200907/W020101217628552114548.pdf

"Disruption of palaeosoils can also result from a violent airburst due to the impact of a
cosmic bolide (Courty et al., 2008). In thin sections, such disruption can be expressed as
loose packing of angular to subangular aggregates of various sizes, initially described as
frost-shattered soil (Guo, 1990)." -p.643

"Heated fragments of palaeosoils and in situ heated palaeosoils have been recognised, for instance as subangular fragments and ellipsoidal aggregates in Java, where they are related to an occurrence of tektites (Courty et al., 2007) (see Fig. 16). In this study, heating, up to a few hundred degrees Celsius is recognised in thin section by (i) a complete loss of birefringence of the originally smectitic groundmass, (ii) an opaque aspect of the groundmass (Courty et al., 1989) and (iii) compaction of ellipsoidal aggregates probably by heating. In this case, heating is thought to result of a blast of hot air resulting from a meteorite impact. Heat-transformed palaeosoils have also been described for volcanic regions (Usai, 1996)." -p.649

"Charcoal fragments that cannot be the result of human activity are common in
palaeosoils (Van Vliet-Lanoe¨, 1976) and relict soils. Their abundance is underestimated,
or their presence is not even recognised, when micromorphological investigations are
not carried out. They can be in the form of (i) randomly distributed or aligned fragments
in reworked soil material, (ii) nodules consisting of ferruginised charcoal fragments (see
Fig. 11) or (iii) silty textural features containing abundant small charcoal fragments.
Charcoal fragments are at least partly related to wildfires associated with discontinuities
in soil development (rhexistasic episodes). Some extensive wildfires, such as those of the
Younger Dryas, may have been caused by cosmic impacts (Kennett et al., 2008)." -p.649

Courty, M.A., Goldberg, P. & Macphail, R., 1989. Soils and Micromorphology in Archaeology. Cambridge Universiry Press, Cambridge, 344 p.

Courty, M.A., Marlin, C., Dever, L., Tremblay, P. & Vachier, P., 1994. The properties, genesis and environmental significance of calcitic pendants from the High Arctic (Spitsbergen). Geoderma 61, 71–102.

Courty, M.A., Brasseur, B. & Fedoroff, N., 2007. The soil record of instantaneous processes linked to cosmic events and related consequences. Geophysical Research Abstracts 9, 10859.

Courty, M.A., Crisci, A., Fedoroff, M., Grice, K., Greenwood, P., Mermoux, M., Smith, D. & Thiemens, M., 2008. Regional expression of the widespread disruption of soil-landscapes by the 4 kyr BP impact-linked dust event using pedo-sedimentary micro-fabrics. In Kapur, S., Mermut, A. & Stoops, G. (eds.), New Trends in Soil Micromorphology. Springer Verlag, Berlin,
pp. 211–236.

Oh, that last one (2008) is our original source!
===

Also, there is the Holocene Impact Working Group...

http://tsun.sscc.ru/hiwg/activity.htm

"2004 December - Ted and Slava participate at the ICSU Conference on Comet/Asteroid Hazards in Canaries and met there Bruce Masse. In his presentation at the conference Bruce demonstrates the figure showing the hypothesized location of the "Comet Flood" impact in the south-western part of the Indian Ocean. Within two days after learning about it, Dallas finds the Burckle crater candidate some 800 km NE of Bruce's location. Ted, Bruce and Slava meet at the end of the ICSU conference and decide that Holocene impacts are more common than generally perceived by the astronomic community, that there impacts can be detected on the seabed and that no one is researching these aspects systematically. They decide to form a working group that becomes the Holocene Impact Working Group."

"January 2007 - Katherine Cagen starts working with Dallas Abbott on tsunami layer in the Hudson river. Katherine quickly finds impact ejecta in the tsunami layer (Feb. 2007). Tsunami layer originally found on Eastern Long Island by Steve Goodbred. Tsunami layer in Hudson first dated by Goodbred et al., 2006 as 2300 B.P."

"2007 May - Slava participates at the Joint AGU Assembly in Acapulco, Mexico, meets there with Richard Firestone and presents a joint (with Dallas, Ted and Bruce) paper at the Symposium PP05 "New Insights into Younger Dryas Climatic Instability, Mass Extinction, the Clovis People, and Extraterrestrial Impacts". Also in Acapulco, at the same symposium the first public presentation of the Clovis Comet hypothesis is given by Rick, Allen West, Jim Kennett, Luann Becker, and George Howard. Also, the first public presentation of the Clovis Comet hypothesis is given by Rick, Allen West, Jim Kennett, Luann Becker, and George Howard."

"2007 December - Poster "Micrometeorite Impacts in Beringian Mammoth Tusks and a Bison Skull" presented at the San Francisco AGU Meeting by Rick Firestone. Poster describes impact 35 ka ago."

"2008 January - 2nd edition of Bryant's book "Tsunami: The Underrated Hazard" published by Praxis. New Zealand Mahuika event proposed as occurring late evening 13 February 1491."

"2008 February - Publication of Haslett and Bryant paper in Atlantic Geology on the possibility of a cosmogenic tsunami in the Irish Sea around 1014 AD."

===

http://cosmictusk.co...ary-of-research
"...the presence of crater candidates (29-km Burckle crater about 1500 km southeast of Madagascar which dates to within the last 6000 years...." -Holocene Impact Working Group

===

http://archaeology.a...asse_king_4.htm

"...there is a possible impact crater on the sea floor 1500 kilometers southeast of Madagascar. Named Burckle Crater and discovered only recently by Masse's colleague Dallas Abbott from Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory, it is a little under 30 km in diameter and is visible on bathymetric maps. Stratigraphic cores taken near there suggest that it is an impact crater, but are not definitive. The Burckle Crater needs more study, but it is 3800 meters deep, so it's not an easy place to explore. More readily accessible is the southern coast of Madagascar where recently studied chevron-shaped dune deposits of potential tunamic origin may be indicative of giant waves more than 200 meters in height. Masse and Abbott have joined together with more than 25 other scientists to form the "Holocene Impact Working Group," to better explore Burckle Crater, Madagascar, and other locations bearing potential Holocene physical evidence of impact.

If Masse is right, a comet impact big enough to have devastating effects on human civilization occurred in 2807 BC--a bit under 5,000 years ago."

===

"Holocene-Impact-Working-Group"
http://www.facebook....116705371710716

They've only got 6 friends, so feel free to give them a poke.

~ :)

#9 Turtle

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 05:13 PM

Well, these folks are soil scientists. But they do add this note at the end of their chapter:

"The detailed analytical characterization of the impact signal will be presented elsewhere." -p.234

This seems fairly well confirmed as some sort of impact ejecta....
But here are some more quotes from:
...
"Melted bone fragment showing injection of a metal-rich carbonaceous impact glass within the osteocytes." WOW!!!
...
"This distinctive event might have exerted an influence on the global climate, in particular through injection in the upper atmosphere of volatile components and carbon-rich aerosols, known to induce cloud condensation nuclei effects and albedo changes (Toon et al. 1997)." --p.233

Below: an Author's Copy of some new book chapter!
http://sourcedb.cas....28552114548.pdf
Oh, that last one (2008) is our original source!
===
...
Also, there is the Holocene Impact Working Group...
===

http://cosmictusk.co...ary-of-research
"...the presence of crater candidates (29-km Burckle crater about 1500 km southeast of Madagascar which dates to within the last 6000 years...." -Holocene Impact Working Group

===

http://archaeology.a...asse_king_4.htm

"...there is a possible impact crater on the sea floor 1500 kilometers southeast of Madagascar. Named Burckle Crater and discovered only recently by Masse's colleague Dallas Abbott from Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory, it is a little under 30 km in diameter and is visible on bathymetric maps. Stratigraphic cores taken near there suggest that it is an impact crater, but are not definitive. The Burckle Crater needs more study, but it is 3800 meters deep, so it's not an easy place to explore. More readily accessible is the southern coast of Madagascar where recently studied chevron-shaped dune deposits of potential tunamic origin may be indicative of giant waves more than 200 meters in height. Masse and Abbott have joined together with more than 25 other scientists to form the "Holocene Impact Working Group," to better explore Burckle Crater, Madagascar, and other locations bearing potential Holocene physical evidence of impact.

If Masse is right, a comet impact big enough to have devastating effects on human civilization occurred in 2807 BC--a bit under 5,000 years ago."

===

"Holocene-Impact-Working-Group"
http://www.facebook....116705371710716

They've only got 6 friends, so feel free to give them a poke.

~ :)


:thumbs_up Luann is part of that working group. there are some youtube videos of some of the presentations as i recall; i may have linked to some in one of the impact threads. i think we even have a thread on halocene impact. :sherlock:

so, this all sounds very good then. these are all the right people. if this impact was large enough we could expect volcanic activity at the antipode to the impact. fortunately i have bookmarked a calculator that gives antipodes. :D

good stuff essay!! :agree:
hold on...

http://www.antipodemap.com/

i'll post this much and then go do the calculation. :earth:

#10 Turtle

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 05:50 PM

ok. found our thread and took a screen shot of the antipode map of the proposed berkle impact crater. the antipode is just off the coast of baja california. while there are a lot of hotspots there, they predate this proposed impact. this is not to say berkle isn't an impact site, and it may be the case that an antipodal shock wave may have been sufficient to trigger eruptive events at an already historicaly volcanic area. might be worth looking for deposits there in the date range in question. :sherlock:

>> Mammoth Comet Extinction...

#11 Sunshine 2118

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 02:10 PM

… Also, there is the Holocene Impact Working Group...===

http://cosmictusk.co...ary-of-research
"...the presence of crater candidates (29-km Burckle crater about 1500 km southeast of Madagascar which dates to within the last 6000 years...." -Holocene Impact Working Group===

http://archaeology.a...asse_king_4.htm

"...there is a possible impact crater on the sea floor 1500 kilometers southeast of Madagascar. Named Burckle Crater and discovered only recently by Masse's colleague Dallas Abbott from Lamont Doherty Earth Observatory, it is a little under 30 km in diameter and is visible on bathymetric maps. Stratigraphic cores taken near there suggest that it is an impact crater, but are not definitive. The Burckle Crater needs more study, but it is 3800 meters deep, so it's not an easy place to explore. More readily accessible is the southern coast of Madagascar where recently studied chevron-shaped dune deposits of potential tunamic origin may be indicative of giant waves more than 200 meters in height. Masse and Abbott have joined together with more than 25 other scientists to form the "Holocene Impact Working Group," to better explore Burckle Crater, Madagascar, and other locations bearing potential Holocene physical evidence of impact.

If Masse is right, a comet impact big enough to have devastating effects on human civilization occurred in 2807 BC--a bit under 5,000 years ago."…


Ok…a screen shot of the antipode map of the proposed berkle impact crater. the antipode is just off the coast of baja california. while there are a lot of hotspots there, they predate this proposed impact. …



Regarding the above quotes. 2807BCE doesn’t sound right. The written history of those living “just under 5,000 years ago” does not support a massive disruption in the life cycle of those civilizations that can write and leave a written record.

So Turtles comment about hotspots “predating this proposed impact.” Makes sense to me.


As I read, I am reminded of the indigenous mythology of the Middle East that involves the monster from the sky god that threatens civilization involving a hero and his consort. In each of the stories, the sea figures in some fashion as the monster’s sphere of rule or domain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yam_(god) ; http://www.touregypt...tories/apep.htm (please see Egyptianmyths. Net site below)

The Greeks took these ancient stories and updated them to that of http://www.monstrope...hp?title=Typhon

While the Hebrews brought in their monotheistic religion.

So, I am wondering does the ancient mythology of the Middle East have some memories of a cosmic threat from the sky, ending in the sea?

The tale of Apophis and Ra while fits the basic motif so does Egypt’s earliest creation myth.
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/nun.htm


Back to the posts- Essay.
The Holocene dates from 12,000 to today, as mentioned already archaeology refutes any major destruction ca. 2,800BCE in the Middle East so it must be later (ca. 2,000BCE or before). According to current Egyptian archaeology, the date might be earlier by some 2,000 years or more (Wilkinson, T.A.H. 2010: 7-10).

#12 Essay

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:31 AM

UPDATE!  Around 3,700 years ago, “a superheated blast from the skies obliterated cities and farming settlements north of the Dead Sea.”

 

Archaeologists at a site in what's now Jordan have found evidence of a cosmic calamity.

 

“Ground surveys have located 120 additional, smaller settlements in the region that the researchers suspect were also exposed to extreme, collapse-inducing heat and wind.”

 

These conditions sound similar to those described in the OP, and maybe, if this was just one piece of a larger broken-up meteor, then the same conditions could have occurred elsewhere along its trajectory. 

Or maybe returning impact ejecta from some other site could have affected the widespread locations listed in the opening post. 

 

~ Thanks for all the thoughts and replies from before.