gribbon Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 How much freedom of expression is there on this forum? If someone is a bit rude, but not swearing so they might write something like, "Simple enough for you? Understand the differences now? Got it?" or "this is complete crap" would they be banned? "Mercedes Benze" wrote something a bit off- putting ages ago, I think it was I]"Doesn't that kind of anwser your question?....good luck in trying to find some"[/i] Is that acceptable? Where are the limits? It's easy to go too far when people put you off like that...I read the rules carefully, and it seems quite strict. Also are we not allowed to link to any other forum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infamous Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 How much freedom of expression is there on this forum? Understand this fxzeu; There are always limits to any freedom and that also includes expression. If your behavior is consistent with that of a good neighbor attitude, you will probably have no problem here at Hypography. On the other hand, if your behavior is contentious and insulting, expect some problems. Also are we not allowed to link to any other forum?I believe that activity is limited fxzeu. Please read our FAQ and rules page, it should define these limitations for you............................Infy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 How much freedom of expression is there on this forum? The way you pose the question I wonder if you are confusing "freedom of expression" with "code of conduct". Act as you would in a face-to-face conversation and you will be fine. Play nice. Also are we not allowed to link to any other forum? This is outlined in our rules. Do not post links to threads in other forums in order to try to make our members discuss those topics - start the topics here instead. We accept and encourage links to other sites, but we do not accept attempts at soliciting members to sign up at other sites without clearing it with our administrators first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gribbon Posted January 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 The way you pose the question I wonder if you are confusing "freedom of expression" with "code of conduct". Act as you would in a face-to-face conversation and you will be fine. Play nice. This is outlined in our rules. Do not post links to threads in other forums in order to try to make our members discuss those topics - start the topics here instead. We accept and encourage links to other sites, but we do not accept attempts at soliciting members to sign up at other sites without clearing it with our administrators first. Understand this fxzeu; If your behavior is consistent with that of a good neighbor attitude, you will probably have no problem here at Hypography. On the other hand, if your behavior is contentious and insulting, expect some problems. I You both seem to think of me as some trouble maker, but go back and check my record, and you won't find a single insult, nor any heated arguments. I have done nothing wrong, but this issue of linking and source crediting really confuses me. I'm 15 years old, and so I am quite unfamiliar with how forum systems work. What I just wanted to check if what Mercedes Benze did was acceptable, because if your rules are mean to be as they are, then it is not. When I looked, it said that that you should never make people look stupid. What was Mercedes Benze doing? It's a breach of the rules from what I can gather. By the way, I didn't want to encourage people to move over to another forum. It was a good topic which I wanted to continue to discuss here. What should we do if we have discussed a topic in detail elsewhere, and would like to continue discussing that topic here? Should we copy and paste the whole debate into a new thread here? I'm confused. I got into trouble for a) providing a link to another debate and :) copying and pasting an article from the internet and then putting it in quote marks and saying "here it is". Note that Boersun told me off beforehand, saying he didn't want to look elsewhere for my post. What am I supposed to do? :eek: I need to provide proof to back up my claims, (as it says in the rules) yet I can't link to another site. Nor can I quote what the site said. I have a good debate, but I can't continue with that debate here, unless I discuss all the other points that were discussed on that forum. By the way, the forum I was trying to link to wasn't a science forum, but there where some good science topics discussed there.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 if your rules are mean to be as they are, then it is not. When I looked, it said that that you should never make people look stupid.Unfortunately, sometimes we have no choice in the matter and they do it perfectly well on their own. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 When I looked, it said that that you should never make people look stupid. What was Mercedes Benze doing? It's a breach of the rules from what I can gather. Please stop making more problems, particularly while claiming other members are behaving badly. The rules also tells you how to deal with that. What should we do if we have discussed a topic in detail elsewhere, and would like to continue discussing that topic here? Should we copy and paste the whole debate into a new thread here? I'm confused. You definitely do NOT want to copy the entire debate, because you cannot post posts from another forum (unless you wrote them yourself). Keep it simple - start a new discussion. This is a different forum with different people. We are not interested in seeing how the discussion panned out somewhere else, we want to participate in it as members of Hypography. I got into trouble for a) providing a link to another debate and ...telling us a) you were banned from that forum and :shrug: posting about 8 links to different posts in one go. B) copying and pasting an article from the internet and then putting it in quote marks and saying "here it is". Note that Boersun told me off beforehand, saying he didn't want to look elsewhere for my post. Link to the article and quote just the relevant part. Taking the entire article is theft, pure and simple. What am I supposed to do? :) I need to provide proof to back up my claims, (as it says in the rules) yet I can't link to another site. If you are 15, you are certainly able to read *all* of our rules. There is a section on what kind of links you can post, and what you cannot post. We certainly don't have a ban on links. Nor can I quote what the site said. That's exactly what you can. You can quote the site, but not *all* of the text from that site. Simple, really! :) I have a good debate, but I can't continue with that debate here, unless I discuss all the other points that were discussed on that forum. Out of curiosity, if you were already having a good debate, why did you try to move it here? :eek: By the way, the forum I was trying to link to wasn't a science forum, but there where some good science topics discussed there.... I am sure it is a perfectly nice forum, and it is really not relevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted January 5, 2007 Report Share Posted January 5, 2007 http://hypography.com/forums/watercooler/3680-hypography-game-theory-playground.html?highlight=hypography+is+a+game Subtlety does have its charm. You learn that from the bumps along the road. ouch, :eek: Racoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBigDog Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Take time to build some rapport. Buy me dinner. Hold my had for a while. Many of us know each other for a long time, so when we jab at each other the tone is understood. If we seem to be harder on new people it is because we don't know them yet, and the context of their jabbing is not yet wholly understood. It is better to keep things contained than let them spiral out of control. And in staying with the natural laws of the universe, we are entirely unfair. :) Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJP07 Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Were like a zoo here. Your a tiger. Play nice and don't attack anyone that doesn't mean to do any harm to you. If you do play nice you get food ( Reputation Points ). If you have a problem, you tell the zoo warden and let them sort out the problem for you. If you behave badly, you wont get any tasty meat and instead you'll be left starving ( Deducted Reputation Points ). So be nice, and live and let live! Do this and you won't have any problem in the zoo, if you continually behave badly, maybe the veterinary warden may have to put you down as your too dangerous! ( Banned ) It's up to you! TheBigDog and gribbon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gribbon Posted January 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Out of curiosity, if you were already having a good debate, why did you try to move it here? Because I wanted to continue the debate here, where there are people with much more expertise and knowledge. I also wanted to avoid having to discuss the same points over again...there are three options a) solicit people from here to that forum (which as I know would not be allowed) Copy and paste the entire argument into a new thread here (which again is not allowed) or c) discuss the entire topic all over again in this forum. (which unfortunately is what I have to do...) Fine then.... Take time to build some rapport. Well okay...thanks for the advice! As for the zoo analogy...well, it was quite interesting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Because I wanted to continue the debate here, where there are people with much more expertise and knowledge. I also wanted to avoid having to discuss the same points over again. The point is of course that you cannot expect our members to bother reading up on a thread from a different forum. You *need* to start over if you want to get the benefit of a different forum. That would be the same no matter which forum you went to. there are three options a) solicit people from here to that forum (which as I know would not be allowed) I don't think many forums encourage this... Copy and paste the entire argument into a new thread here (which again is not allowed) See above. or c) discuss the entire topic all over again in this forum. (which unfortunately is what I have to do...) Fine then.... If I were you, I'd stop making such a fuzz and just get on with it. You're making this difficult for yourself, mate. Just start the thread and move on from there. You'll find that participating in many threads here at Hypography is rewarding, whereas fighting against the system is not fruitful for any of us. This is my final take in this matter - I recommend we end this thread now since it has moved from "freedom of expression" to "this forum is not allowing me to violate basic copyright laws and netiquette rules", which is why we recommend lurking around our forum before posting, really. Hypography is what it is because of our membership, and it is generally NOT considered good form (in ANY forum) to barge in and start pointing fingers and crying wolf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDMclean Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Mood: Make liberal use of the smilies, they help to set the tone of your posts. If I riddled this post with frowns and angry smilies, then it would seem like I am angry, given that the smilies follow the rules of expression (cartoons) as laid out by Scott McCloud in Understanding Comics. That is they are simplified towards meaning, such that anyone looking at them will recognize, and internalize their meaning. They will identify with what you are trying to say and how you are trying to say it. Right now the reaction you have engendered is one which Hypography is intolerant of due to the shear number of seemingly belligerent people who come and go. I can see clearly from your posts that you do not intend to do anything but discuss the topic that you hold interest in, and I can also see that you are trying to draw on a reserve of information to save time in that endeavor. Here's the issue though. Hypographers are adverse to reading large portions of text or entire threads. As you may have noticed I alone have 52 threads to my name and over 1,000 posts. That is allot of stuff for me to point to and go "just read everything I have already written.", which often enough is just what I want to do, given that I have already weighed in on several topics that have popped up time and time again. There is something on the order of between 5 and 10 threads, at least, out there about space-time, gravity, mass-energy, and otherwise universal topology. Of which they could be condensed into 1 thread, given how similar each thread is to the one topic (Universal Topology). What you can do is take everything that was written and simplify, summarize and give synopsis of. Try and take it down to a page or less, as much of it will be semantic arguing, which most likely you will need to re-clarify according to the insights (paradigms, and methodologies) of your current audience. As for the "well it would seem to me that poster x is breaking y rule", I have found that the judicial (law interpretation) branch (moderators, and admins) of this local government would be the final say in that, and sadly if you don't like it, you can't really do much about it. This is Tormod's game, and as such he has sole executive authority, and legislatitive authority regarding the conduct and form of the site. No offence intended, Tormod, but this isn't a democracy, as I have found. It is something like a benevolent (once you've been around for a while and have assimilated to the ways of Hypography) Enlightened Despotism, or perhaps a type of oligarchy. So I would encourage you to first use polite, well thought out, worded, and smilied private messages, to Tormod, or the other Admins (I am unsure of the formal user complaint registration method) petitioning for a redress of grievances. Keeping in mind that impoliteness and breach of civil protocol can be grounds for banning. If there is a better way to go about this, I would like to hear it. As I see it this is the way Hypography works, in it's forum governmental capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 What you can do is take everything that was written and simplify, summarize and give synopsis of. Try and take it down to a page or less, as much of it will be semantic arguing, which most likely you will need to re-clarify according to the insights (paradigms, and methodologies) of your current audience. This is an excellent suggestion, KAC. No offence intended, Tormod, but this isn't a democracy, as I have found. Correct. It can't be. Nor do we grant freedom of speech to everyone. This is simply not that kind of place. Hypography is a labor of love from all of the involved, and we have a large group of moderators and admins who spend a lot of time policing the place. But that does not make Hypography a police state. I'd say the most important ground rule is "Play nice, and people will play nice back". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDMclean Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 Nor do we grant freedom of speech to everyone. This is simply not that kind of place. Hypography is a labor of love from all of the involved, and we have a large group of moderators and admins who spend a lot of time policing the place. But that does not make Hypography a police state. Truely. However I will point out that one must struggle ever vigilantly to keep such states from sliding into that exact state, because singular rule has the potential to wander across the line seperating such things. I would not be involved in this if it were not in my interest to do so. I love hypography. I do recognize however that there is a need for the otherside of the equation, in this case fxzeu, to be fairly represented. Which as has been pointed out is not yet possible as he has not been around long enough for most members to defend him or to critically examine his complaints or confusions about the system. So far the tone, in my observations, would seem to be one of obfuscated hostility. A "You dare question a noted and respected member of Hypography?" sort of feel. I just want people to be aware of what is happening, and for all participants to be kept checked and balanced. Part of that is supporting new members in their efforts to clarify the rather ambigious rules (They do require translation by the makers of the rule set to be understood, and are not clear nor concise). This thread, in my observation, is a new member seeking just such clarity. Many of the members here talk about "Da rules" as if they were crystal clear, but I know from experience that they are not so easy to understand except for those who already understand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killean Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 ...to Tormod, or the other Admins (I am unsure of the formal user complaint registration method)...You can bring any matter regarding the community to any active Moderator or Administrator. They will bring the subject to the attention of the rest and a consensus will be reached, unless the matter is trivial and can be solved by them alone (such as a duplicated thread). If there is a problem with the site (as in a bug), then it would be best to bring the matter to any of the Dev Team members. http://hypography.com/forums/showgroups.php Try not to flood Tormod alone with all these complaints. There IS a reason why we have such a large staff, and each have just as much say and pull as the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted January 6, 2007 Report Share Posted January 6, 2007 So far the tone, in my observations, would seem to be one of obfuscated hostility. A "You dare question a noted and respected member of Hypography?" sort of feel. Where did this come into play? What you call obfuscated hostility I would label "tired annoyance". I think it would be more fair to say that a new member has barged in, violated *basic* copyright rules (which has nothing to do with our rules, as it is), and then - when prompted to correct his error - proceeded to question our policies rather than just listen and try to learn how our forums work. It then turns into a tit-for-tat ping pong discussion which is completely useless and degrading for everyone involved. Questioning authority is good but (and I have said this before) authority here at Hypography is not about who decides what. Nobody here stands to win or lose much - we are anonymous avatars in cyberspace. It is rather about bothering to observe the limits of accepted behaviour. This is a process that 99% of our members have no problems with. The remaining 1% will probably never be happy no matter what we do. A common approach in many forums is to instantly ban members who post copyrighted content. We give them a second chance. But we don't give them three chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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