FDA calls cloned meats and milk safe!!???

[Celeste]

<shiver> :D Really? I think I'll pass, at least for the next 20 years, thank you very much.

 

On Thursday, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration issued a report that concludes cloned animals are as safe to eat as ordinary livestock.

 

To make matters worse, (for me at least) the FDA stated that, there is "no science-based reason" for using labels to identify food from clones.

 

What? Shouldn't it be my choice? I feel like a human guinea pig.

 

I know the cost of cloning is outrageous and the likelihood of a cloned T-bone landing on my table in the near future might be thin to non-exsistant at this moment, but.....things like gene mutations, mad cows disease, even the FDA's "studied" and then ill-approved Vioxx and Fhen Fhen keep coming to mind...

 

Anyone else have thoughts on this? Pros? Cons?

[infamous]

 

Anyone else have thoughts on this? Pros? Cons?

I believe I'd have to pass if asked to eat a clone-burger also. The food supply seems to be falling apart these days with the ecoli scares recently occuring at Toca Bell. And that's not nearly the full extent of the problems we seem to be facing lately. With the manipulation of growth hormones being given to the beef cattle, who really knows what we're eating these days anyway. One redeeming fact which Celeste already mentioned, at least for the moment cloned-burger would be out of the question for reasons of economics. Hopefully this condition will remain the status quo until they put me in the ground........................Infy

[Zythryn]

If it is a true clone (i.e. DNA is 100% duplicated with no changes) I see no harm what-so-ever. Would anyone be nervous eating a burger from a cow that had a twin?

 

I do see two areas of concern which I would need more information about. One, are the embryos or mothers that carry the cloned creatures treated with any chemicals/hormones that other animals of that species are not?

Two, what damage is possible from imperfect cloning AND how often is there damage to the DNA in the cloning process.

If there is damage how is it scanned for to prevent any hazards to the consumer and what would be the consequences of failure (we have seen the consequences of e-coli:().

[infamous]

If it is a true clone (i.e. DNA is 100% duplicated with no changes) I see no harm what-so-ever. Would anyone be nervous eating a burger from a cow that had a twin?

Very good point Zythryn, nevertheless.................???

 

 

what damage is possible from imperfect cloning AND how often is there damage to the DNA in the cloning process.

From everything I've read about cloned animals to date, they all seem to die way too soon. Albeit not conclusive, this fact alone should raise a lot of suspicion about defects in the DNA..................Infy

[InfiniteNow]

I've eaten some questionable foods in my day. I say, clone the prized steer over and over and over and let me have a hell of a nice filet that would normally cost me $30 or $40 for 99¢.

 

We as humans are locusts when it comes to our eating habits. At the very least we could alleviate some of the drain on natural resources by cloning our foods instead.

 

I vote - It's happening, and I don't have a problem with it. Please pass the genetically modified corn while you're at it.

 

Maybe we can even genetically manipulate the cattle in such a way as to eliminate the current heart disease and cancer problems that tend to accompany ingestion of red meat.

[Boerseun]

No problems over here! Will you pass me the six-legged chicked while you're at it?

[Michaelangelica]

No problems over here! Will you pass me the six-legged chicked while you're at it?

Zythryn makes some good points. These should be addressed. Also don't cloned animals age a bit faster?

 

Why do we need it?

Are US bulls eating too much chicken with hormones in it? :eek: :smart: or visiting gay bars? :)

 

How will the Japanese take to US exported cloned beef?

That will really be the deciding factor about whether USA-ians get to eat cloned beef won't it?

 

I can't see why cloned meat can't be labeled for those that may be concerned.

Most fruit (& the occasional vegetable) is cloned now.

 

I don't have any problems eating cloned meat (apart from Zythryn above) as true clones (100% identical) don't really exist anyway.

 

:Clown::wave::umno::wave:

[TheBigDog]

I don't understand the hesitation. What does everyone think the purpose of cloning is? Zoo exhibits? Wait until the FDA approves implanting cloned spare human parts. If you are concerned about labeling then write your representatives at the state and local level. But don't be surprised if the whole thing gets all confused and your concern about meat labeling turns into all sorts of concerns with cloning that cause disruptions in the research and application of findings.

 

While we are at it, what defines a clone? Navel oranges all come from clippings from a single original tree (this may no longer be the case, but is the original case). So all navel orange trees are in a sense clones of the first tree, but from a simple and ancient process.

 

Bill

[maikeru]

I've eaten some questionable foods in my day. I say, clone the prized steer over and over and over and let me have a hell of a nice filet that would normally cost me $30 or $40 for 99¢.

 

We as humans are locusts when it comes to our eating habits. At the very least we could alleviate some of the drain on natural resources by cloning our foods instead.

 

I vote - It's happening, and I don't have a problem with it. Please pass the genetically modified corn while you're at it.

 

Maybe we can even genetically manipulate the cattle in such a way as to eliminate the current heart disease and cancer problems that tend to accompany ingestion of red meat.

 

Many of the problems with cattle, such as the increased fat and unhealthiness of their meat, seem more related to the way cattle are kept and fed (soybeans, corn, etc.) rather than their inherent qualities. I've heard that grass-fed, free-range cattle yield much healthier meat, which have less fat and more omega-3s and more protein. If we do want to modify our animals, this might be one way to do it:

 

Wired News: Bring Home the Biotech Bacon

 

Mmm, biotech bacon... Next: biotech beef.

 

Personally, I feel that the many resources required to clone cattle could be better spent elsewhere. I *know* that the cloned beef is not fundamentally different from regular beef, but it still sounds weird and unappetizing.

[Boerseun]

I see a future where we'll have vast factories with 'vats' containing a growth solution into which specifically engineered stem-cells are introduced, to grow a predetermined cut of meat. If you want a beef fillet, you grow just the fillet - you don't need the full cow.

 

All the side products of the meat industry (leather, etc.) can also be grown in these 'vats'. You can grow a single continuous sheet of leather hundreds of meters long, you'll only be limited with the size of your 'vats'.

 

And I'll be fine with it - if it looks like meat and taste like meat and has the same texture, I'll be just dandy with it.

 

[/baseless futuristic speculation]

[InfiniteNow]

if it looks like meat and taste like meat and has the same texture, I'll be just dandy with it.

Soylent beef is stem cells!! ;)

 

 

:P

[CraigD]

I see a future where we'll have vast factories with 'vats' containing a growth solution into which specifically engineered stem-cells are introduced, to grow a predetermined cut of meat. If you want a beef fillet, you grow just the fillet - you don't need the full cow.

I’ll join you in your (not entirely) baseless futuristic speculation.

 

I see a future where we’ll have vast extra-terrestrial factories gobbling up Kuiper objects for their carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen (CHON) and trace elements and cranking out vast quantities of non-biologically derived food of every description to feed a human population 1000 times its current size. In this scenario, the terrestrial biosphere will be valued as the huge library of evolving genetic diversity it is, not as a source of food, fuel, building material and real estate, reversing the historic trend of civilization to replace every possible wild species niche with genetically similar (or with the increased ciability of commercial cloning, identical) domestic species.

All the side products of the meat industry (leather, etc.) can also be grown in these 'vats'. You can grow a single continuous sheet of leather hundreds of meters long, you'll only be limited with the size of your 'vats'.

Leather? What would we want with that weak, smelly stuff? I’ll take my vat-grown protein fibre as spider silk, please, or ultra-long carbon fibre, with a trace of silver to keep it smelling nice. :) Though a complete wardrobe and piece bag of super-strong material might prove a pain in the but if you find yourself in dire need of punching a hole in it. :lol:

[Michaelangelica]

I’ll join you in your (not entirely) baseless futuristic speculation.

 

I see a future where we’ll haveLeather? What would we want with that weak, smelly stuff? I’ll take my vat-grown protein fibre as spider silk, please,(

Would spider silk vests be bullet-proof?:)

This future is almost here, the Japanese have fragrant stockings so no smelly feet

How would you like your clothes to fit?

Technology Review: Transforming Clothes

Perhaps you would like to change your color scheme at lunch?

ScienCentral Video News: Clothes That Change Color

[Boerseun]

Would spider silk vests be bullet-proof?

I doubt it, but they will most certainly be fly-proof!

 

I don't think speculating on where the future of the food supply lies is completely off-topic, a few years ago cloning was complete and utter science fiction! If we discuss things like these 'meat-vats', it might help to give us some perspective on the current issue, because the argument should stay the same, but we remove any personal prejudice, because it doesn't exist yet. So whilst being speculation, I think it could be helpful in giving us a more balanced perspective on what the FDA is saying.

[Celeste]

Ok...I'll admit that 'safety' doesn't appear to be an issue...at this moment.

Frankly speaking, it just doesn't sit well with me personally...InfiniteNow said it well, Soylent Beef. I had nightmares about that movie Soylent Green for years when I was young and it was the first thing that popped into my head when I read the FDA approval report.

Because biotech or "genetically manipulated" crops are a seperate thing altogether, crops used as food don't bother me in the least. Now, if I had a pet plant that "mooed" at me, or showed signs of pain, I might have to reconsider.

 

A few points that don't sit well: (Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong :hihi: )

 

1. Clones are NOT an exact identical clone. The Microcondria DNA is different from the cell donor.

2. Chromosomes from some cloned cattle have longer telomeres than normal uncloned cattle.

3. In cloning, the transferred nucleus doesn't have the same program as a natural embryo. Complete reprogramming (chemical or electrical tweaks) is needed by scientist for normal or near-normal development. Incomplete programming will cause the embryo to develop abnormally or fail.

4. "Large Offspring Syndrome" (LOS). Clones with LOS have abnormally large organs. This can lead to breathing, blood flow, and kidney problems, as well as brain malformations and impaired immune systems.

5. Because clones are often born with severely compromised immune systems and receive massive doses of antibiotics, it could open the way for large quantities of pharmaceuticals and antibiotics to enter the food supply.

6. The US National Academy of Sciences also warned recently that the commercialisation of cloned livestock for food production could increase the incidence of food-borne illness, such as E-coli infections.

7. The technologies available are not sufficient for determining what parameters, such as DNA or the presence of certain amino acids, are absolutely relevant for predicting the impact on human health.

 

It makes more sense (and is politically and morally) much more palatable to clone organs and body parts. None of the right-to-lifers could argue that a cloned heart is *alive* and entitled to protection under the law, and it is unlikely that a cloned liver would be the target of a lawsuit from MADD.

 

I'd also like to hear your thoughts about this.

And I quote: In the future, if all animals produced for food are clones, all mutations will be negliable or non-existant and thus evolution will be stopped.

 

 

cheers!

[Boerseun]

And I quote: In the future, if all animals produced for food are clones, all mutations will be negliable or non-existant and thus evolution will be stopped.

Good post, Celeste - but if you think about it, evolution amongst domesticated animals have stopped thousands of years ago already, with the first practice of animal husbandry!

 

Our domesticated livestock are all 'created' by mankind from much different stock, over thousands of years. They are subject to artificial selection rather than natural selection, so that can't really be an objection?

[CraigD]

Would spider silk vests be bullet-proof?

Yes.

 

Actual spider silk (which consists of very long, very “sticky” protein strands) is very strong, and very difficult to collect and make into thread in large quantities. There’s a lot of interest in making large quantities of spider silk thread, for everything from super-compact and lightweight (though difficult to handle) climbing rope to bulletproof vests. One example involves inserting spider genes into goat ova to produce goats that excrete spider silk in their milk, then processing the milk to extract it, making a fiber that Nexia Biotechnologies calls “BioSteel”.

 

Though similar to cloning in that many people find it disturbing, this is just recombinant DNA technology, which has been around commercially for decades. The modern pharmaceutical industry depends extensively on it, though typically involving animals much less cuddly than goats, such as bacteria. Nearly all of the near-human identical insulin (eg: Humulin) critical to the much-improved treatment of diabetics is made this way.