What Is Religion?

[Glotesqyphon]

Religion=impotent Shamanism

[charles brough]

;) You seem to imply that my comments have been digressive. However, if you can point me to some specific insight you offered that challenges my definition, I might go back and read your whole piece. :(

 

 

This is completely in line with my definition of religion in terms of what is fundamental to it; that is, it is an obedience response to authority. That authority for religion may be a god, or authority for religion may come from a principle. Therefore by my definition, sorcery is always a religion, but religion is not always sorcery.

 

THANKS TUTTLE! You think I will plow back through 183 posts!:D I am happy instead to grant your point! Still, as a favor perhaps you would repeat it as I cannot remember what it was. . .:doh:

 

UGH something, I am not sure I see the connection between authority and sorcery. Also, you seem to be saying that all authority is religious. How does that fit into the situation in China where the Marxist Party has dictatorial power of the whole country? Does that make East Asian Marxism a religion? I agree it is a religion if that is your answer. I would find it difficult to classify it as a form of sorcery, however. would you? The Saddham Hussain regime we drove out in Iraq was a secular dictatorship. Does that mean his secular Ba'ah ideology is a religion?

 

What I think is that religions are a whole way of life, they are separate world-view and way of thinking systems. Secular beliefs come in and supplmenet the religion but do not replace it. That is what has happened with us. Secular HUmanism co-exists with the Christian religion that our whole way of life is based on. Neither of these forms of ideology are NECESSARILY dependent upon belief in "spirits." That is why it is possible for Marxism to function as a religion. It is a religion! It just happens to be a really bad one!

 

charles, HOME PAGE

[charles brough]

Religion=impotent Shamanism

 

Oh, come on! You can do better than that! :D First of all nothing equals something else because no two things are exactly the same. Second, you have not defined either. To define something you put it in a class and tell how it differs from others in that class. You also explain its function. What you have done is put down a wrong relationship between two concepts which to you and everyone else are unclear and even very vague. That does not indicate you have written very much, does it?

 

How is religion different or the same to Shamanism? What is a religion? Is East Asian Marxism a religion? Is Scientology a religion? Myself, I would say that shamans are a primitive priesthood. When you find primitive religions, you find them. When the religion is more advanced, you find a priesthood. When a religion has a priesthood, it is well organized and the priests are able to defend the faith. Shamans are not organized and cannot politically defend the faith so we can call their faiths "superstitions." In fact, it is fair because if their religions were not primitive they WOULD be organized to defend the faith.

 

charles, HOME PAGE

[Glotesqyphon]

Oh, come on! You can do better than that! :D First of all nothing equals something else because no two things are exactly the same. Second, you have not defined either. To define something you put it in a class and tell how it differs from others in that class. You also explain its function. What you have done is put down a wrong relationship between two concepts which to you and everyone else are unclear and even very vague. That does not indicate you have written very much, does it?

 

How is religion different or the same to Shamanism? What is a religion? Is East Asian Marxism a religion? Is Scientology a religion? Myself, I would say that shamans are a primitive priesthood. When you find primitive religions, you find them. When the religion is more advanced, you find a priesthood. When a religion has a priesthood, it is well organized and the priests are able to defend the faith. Shamans are not organized and cannot politically defend the faith so we can call their faiths "superstitions." In fact, it is fair because if their religions were not primitive they WOULD be organized to defend the faith.

 

charles, HOME PAGE

 

I think that if you understand shamanism, then you will know exactly what I'm talking about. SHAMANISM IS NOT A RELIGION, but a set of techniques.

ALL mythology came from shamans, to allegorically show their tribes something they had actually experienced in the "Other World." Religion is not more highly evolved at all(or at least that is my strong conviction), but is simply the mythology without a visionary individual to illuminate the meaning of the myths, and create new ones. There are cases in the ancient world, though, where the priesthood fulfills some of the responsibilities of a shaman-Egypt, India-but you can clearly see the decline of those roles as the religious authorities become more and more concerned with political affairs. Now, religion has become(for the most part) "Alright then, you believe our scriptures to be factual? Will you play along with our empty rituals? Splendid!! GIVE US YOUR MONEY."

[arkain101]

The largest contributer for the disaster of the New Orleans flooding caused by the hurricane was the individual public.

 

At approximately 94million dollars, was the charity given by the individual public who donated through their local churches and religious communities.

 

My point... much of the point of the church is to provide human freedom and a backup system that operates with or without the government.

 

It is dubbed scriptually as the kingdom of god, not the kingdom of some humans name on earth.

 

It is to my understand titled in this way, to define it as, giving money away to a kingdom that is not material or earthly in physical form and following the intentions of the scriptures.

 

There is no castle, or human king that controls the money. It is an invisible kingdom that reaches around the world, it is what one would calls spiritual because the typical kingdom we humans make has walls, and towers, and actuall physical and observable structure and form.

 

The concept of a kingdom of god is a kingdom or empire if you will that is made firmly upon the intention of hearts and minds.

 

Its a good thing. It takes faith for such a concept to work. No one we personally know alive is actually in control. Instead as I understand, most refer to a devine god as in control. A comprehensible being, and an infinite uncomprehensible father being.

 

So wheter it is called the kingdom of god, or the fellowship of freedom, or the peacefull united, etc etc... the concept of which church of many forms is transgressing towards is exactly this, a form of governement persay who many believe is under or inline with the designs god had inspired us to accomplish.

 

However, it is a slow process, because many would prefer to be extremely rich with others poor, than have an equality of wealth and care..

[charles brough]

I think that if you understand shamanism, then you will know exactly what I'm talking about. SHAMANISM IS NOT A RELIGION, but a set of techniques.

ALL mythology came from shamans, to allegorically show their tribes something they had actually experienced in the "Other World." Religion is not more highly evolved at all(or at least that is my strong conviction), but is simply the mythology without a visionary individual to illuminate the meaning of the myths, and create new ones. There are cases in the ancient world, though, where the priesthood fulfills some of the responsibilities of a shaman-Egypt, India-but you can clearly see the decline of those roles as the religious authorities become more and more concerned with political affairs. Now, religion has become(for the most part) "Alright then, you believe our scriptures to be factual? Will you play along with our empty rituals? Splendid!! GIVE US YOUR MONEY."

 

You are the first person I have ever been in contact with that is so "taken up" with shaminism!" I hope you don't go around telling people you are an admirer of shamins! Do you believe in animism? I mean, do you see "spirits" in all sorts of things? Since Shamins make up myths, as you say, do they base them on scientific evidence or just make them up as nonsense? How does that help people?

 

Is there some useful purpose they serve other than finding herbs and doing magic tricks?

 

charles, HOME PAGE

[charles brough]

The largest contributer for the disaster of the New Orleans flooding caused by the hurricane was the individual public.

 

At approximately 94million dollars, was the charity given by the individual public who donated through their local churches and religious communities.

 

My point... much of the point of the church is to provide human freedom and a backup system that operates with or without the government.

 

It is dubbed scriptually as the kingdom of god, not the kingdom of some humans name on earth.

 

It is to my understand titled in this way, to define it as, giving money away to a kingdom that is not material or earthly in physical form and following the intentions of the scriptures.

 

There is no castle, or human king that controls the money. It is an invisible kingdom that reaches around the world, it is what one would calls spiritual because the typical kingdom we humans make has walls, and towers, and actuall physical and observable structure and form.

 

The concept of a kingdom of god is a kingdom or empire if you will that is made firmly upon the intention of hearts and minds.

 

Its a good thing. It takes faith for such a concept to work. No one we personally know alive is actually in control. Instead as I understand, most refer to a devine god as in control. A comprehensible being, and an infinite uncomprehensible father being.

 

So wheter it is called the kingdom of god, or the fellowship of freedom, or the peacefull united, etc etc... the concept of which church of many forms is transgressing towards is exactly this, a form of governement persay who many believe is under or inline with the designs god had inspired us to accomplish.

 

However, it is a slow process, because many would prefer to be extremely rich with others poor, than have an equality of wealth and care..

 

I have to guess what all this is about. It seems you are saying that "God's Kindom" is invisible. I would certainly agree because I don't see it either. Personally, I consider that he not only doesn't have a kingdom but doesn't even exist---never did. Religions serve a social function. They provide a common world-view and way of thinking so we get along together better.

 

charles, http://humanpurpose

[ughaibu]

You are the first person I have ever been in contact with that is so "taken up" with shaminism!"

 

Allow me to introduce Neuroflux: http://hypography.com/forums/search.php?searchid=165377

[Glotesqyphon]

You are the first person I have ever been in contact with that is so "taken up" with shaminism!" I hope you don't go around telling people you are an admirer of shamins! Do you believe in animism? I mean, do you see "spirits" in all sorts of things? Since Shamins make up myths, as you say, do they base them on scientific evidence or just make them up as nonsense? How does that help people?

 

Is there some useful purpose they serve other than finding herbs and doing magic tricks?

 

charles, HOME PAGE

 

You obviously haven't got a clue what a spirit or a myth is. When a visionary person is communicating with an intelligence, the form that intelligence takes is not based on fact, and is not decided by the spirit itself, but is entirely based on the subconscious data of the visionary. The spirit is a fact unto itself, and it takes whatever form it can to convey the essence of its own nature. The interaction is very much like a dream. Mythology is a tool one uses to come to a greater understanding of the spiritual nature of the universe, and also a way to preserve pharmacological, moral and philosophical teachings for future generations.

 

I'm not that big on the paranormal, so any illusory paranormal feats that are sometimes talked about, such as firewalking, I won't try to justify. If you want to know what the role of a shaman is, then I suggest finding some unbiased material.;)

[IDMclean]

On subsequent read through, it appears that Turtle's definition wins the thread. :)

 

No objections were put through and no refinements or alterations purposed.

[charles brough]

You obviously haven't got a clue what a spirit or a myth is. When a visionary person is communicating with an intelligence, the form that intelligence takes is not based on fact, and is not decided by the spirit itself, but is entirely based on the subconscious data of the visionary. The spirit is a fact unto itself, and it takes whatever form it can to convey the essence of its own nature. The interaction is very much like a dream. Mythology is a tool one uses to come to a greater understanding of the spiritual nature of the universe, and also a way to preserve pharmacological, moral and philosophical teachings for future generations.

 

I'm not that big on the paranormal, so any illusory paranormal feats that are sometimes talked about, such as firewalking, I won't try to justify. If you want to know what the role of a shaman is, then I suggest finding some unbiased material.:)

 

Your explanation is an interesting but all mysticism. I really have no faith and have never found any evidence in my whole 81 years on this Earth that would indicate there is any such thing as a "spirit." Also, you may note, you did not indicate any other useful purpose of believing in them other than the herbs and magic I mentioned.