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Who is Lucifer? Who is the Devil? Who is Satan?


Garry Denke

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  • 3 years later...

Lucifer means "shining one". Devil means "destroyer". Satan means "resistor".

 

They are adjectives that are inadvertently attributed to one individual by a quasi-interested culture. Therein lies the nuances that make interpretation and communication difficult.

 

devil (N.T.Greek) = to traduce: accuse

Satan = attack, accuse/adversary (Satanail in the Book of Enoch)

Lucifer = brightness:morning star/angel/his name before he was cursed (used only once in the entire Bible)

 

"...for the accuser of our brethren is cast down" (Rev. 12:10)

 

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how you are cut down to the ground..." (Isaiah 14:12)

 

"And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him." (Rev. 12:9)

 

great dragon/old serpent/the Devil/Satan = synonyms

 

cast down/cast out/cut down = synonymous expressions

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Satan appeared starting at the garden of Eden

 

He was one of the first created beings:

 

"You were in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of your tabrets and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created."

 

14You art the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you who walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

 

15You were perfect in you ways from the day that you were created, till iniquity was found in you." (Ezek. 28:13-15)

 

"I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him." (Ezek. 31:9)

 

 

 

His tree was the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

The Tree of Life and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil are the same tree, in the midst (focal point) of the garden. The tree Adam and Eve ate from had fruit on it but Lucifer/Satan/Fig Tree (in Mark 11:13-14 and Matt. 21:19 Jesus cursed the fig tree for a reason!) had 'no fruit' and consequently they were forced to cover their spiritual nakedness with his leaves (Gen. 3:7).

 

He was a snake, which is an earthy phallic symbol.

 

serpent is more like, 'to hiss' = to deride/scorn

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"
but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
" --

This is not the command given to Eve, this is the command given to Adam. The command God gave to Eve was different in an important way. God said to Eve that she would die if she touched the fruit of the tree. Thus we read, in Genesis 2:3 that Eve explained, when asked by the serpent..."But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die".

 

Genesis 2:4 "And the serpent said unto the women, Ye shall not surely die".

 

==

 

Thus we see that God gave two different commandments, one to Adam that he could not eat the fruit of the tree, and a more complex commandment to Eve that she could not touch the fruit, it being impossible to eat fruit without touching it. Thus for Eve, the key action was that she could never touch the fruit, while for Adam, God allowed him to touch the fruit but not eat it.

 

==

 

Now, the serpent, being wise, realized that Eve had been fooled, she had been given a false commandment.

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This is not the command given to Eve, this is the command given to Adam. The command God gave to Eve was different in an important way. God said to Eve that she would die if she touched the fruit of the tree. Thus we read, in Genesis 2:3 that Eve explained, when asked by the serpent..."But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die".

 

She wasn't called Eve until after they had to leave the garden. However, just to make it easier I will call her Eve.

 

Adam was instructed "you shall not eat" (Gen. 2:16)

Eve was instructed "you shall not eat, neither shall you touch it" (Gen. 3:2)

 

Adam might have been able to touch without being tempted to eat but it seems unlikely. God may have added the extra command to Eve as a further safeguard.

 

It's something like a mother telling her kid not to touch the cookie because she knows that once her kid touches it, eating isn't far away.

 

Genesis 2:4 "And the serpent said unto the women, Ye shall not surely die".

 

He was lying!! And it's Gen. 3:4

 

Thus we see that God gave two different commandments"

 

Both were initially instructed 'not to eat', which implies touching.

 

Now, the serpent, being wise, realized that Eve had been fooled, she had been given a false commandment.

 

The serpent wasn't telling her she wouldn't die, he was telling her that she 'misunderstood God's meaning' because later she said "the serpent beguiled (tricked) me" (Gen. 3:13)

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My favorite Jewish traditional creation story poetry is from alt pop musician Robyn Hitchcock's "Serpent at the Gates of Wisdom":

Serpent at the Gates of Wisdom, why did you deceive?

She was weak, but that's no reason, for what you did to Eve.

You're a fool! You broke the stillness. She gave birth to desire,

rolling down the frozen highway, like a burning tire.

I think creation stories get better the more they're re-imagined and retold.

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My favorite Jewish traditional creation story poetry is from alt pop musician Robyn Hitchcock's "Serpent at the Gates of Wisdom":

 

Serpent at the Gates of Wisdom, why did you deceive?

 

Apparently he wasn't just at the
gates
of wisdom:

 

"Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee" (Ezek. 28:3)

 
She was weak, but that's no reason, for what you did to Eve.

 

She was anything but weak. She was created to be Adam's help/meet (synonyms)= helper. Not a helper that 'helps
his
work' but rather a 'helper that
confirms
in spiritual knowledge'.

 

The garden (of Eden) is a
spiritual
place just as their maintaining (till the ground) of it was
spiritual
tilling.

 
You're a fool! You broke the stillness.

 

the word stillness refers to
unspoken
(mental telepathy where the spirit becomes the medium between man and God - the portal so-to-speak) prayer (communing with God) as our spirit beholds that of the Great Spirit.

 
She gave birth to desire,

rolling down the frozen highway, like a burning tire.

 

'Rolling down the frozen highway, like a burning tire' - This is interesting as Eden is said to be both 'hot as fire and cold as ice' and the phrase 'burning tire' is interesting because seraphic hosts are likened to '
wheel's
in Ezekiel, Book of Enoch and Book of Eden.

 

 
I think creation stories get better the more they're re-imagined and retold.

 

 

There's a Jewish midrash about the woman coming out of the man's side - do you know it and where I can find it?

 

Someone quoted it to me once and I've searched on google but can't find it.
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  • 2 weeks later...
He [the serpent] was lying!!
Absolutely a false statement. Eve surely did not die when she touched the fruit. The wise serpent knew that Eve was given a false commandment.

 

Genesis is clear, God only gave one DIRECT commandment, and it was given directly to Adam. And the direct commandment (1) said nothing about touching fruit (2) gave a very clear time period when death would occur if the commandment was not followed--within the same "day".

 

Genesis does not indicate how Eve received that commandment, but the facts indicate that it could only have come from Adam, not direct from God. It was Adam who added the "do not touch" clause to the commandment. Why ? Perhaps he wanting to make sure that Eve would not fall to the temptation to eat the fruit. Most likely Adam had a poor short-term memory recall given that he forgot to tell Eve when death would occur, within the day she touched the fruit. Without this critical knowledge, Eve would have made a reasoned judgement that death would occur the instant that she TOUCHED the fruit. Of course poor Eve had this all incorrect. Has any women in history ever been so negatively effected by the actions of a man more than poor Eve ? I think not.

 

The serpent knew from first hand knowledge that there was not a direct commandment from God to Adam not to touch the fruit. When speaking with Eve about the fruit commandment, the serpent learned that Eve had been given a false "do not touch" aspect to the commandment, and that she did not have any idea about the time the death would occur. We have no clue from Genesis the motivation of the serpent, perhaps he just wanted poor Eve to have the facts correct about the false commandment she was given. All we know is that God handed out punishment to the serpent, as well as the humans, so it is unlikely God sent the serpent into the garden to deceive Eve (I mean, how could God be all loving if God sent serpent to deceive then handled out punishment for following orders ?). Clearly the serpent had a reason by God for being in the garden, but the facts do not indicate that it was to deceive, as discussed below.

 

Thus, the serpent spoke the TRUTH when he told Eve..."ye shall not surely die" ...[when you touch the fruit].

 

From reading Genesis events happened very quick after Eve spoke to the serpent. Adam and Eve were said to be together, but clearly Adam did not hear the conversation between Eve and the serpent otherwise he would have stopped Eve from eating the fruit after she touched it.

 

When Eve experienced the outcome of being alive after she touched the fruit (recall, she would have reasoned that she would die the instant she touched the fruit) she was overjoyed, and then of course did eat of the fruit, which was the only way to gain the good knowledge that it contained. In the mind of Eve, the critical part of the commandment given to HER was that she should never touch the fruit, for if after touching she was still alive, whether or not she ate the fruit would be a moot point to her mind.

 

In her excitement, she immediately went to Adam and most likely told him, look, I touched the fruit and ate of it and I am still alive and now have wonderful knowledge of good and evil. What was poor Adam to think, he was like a deer in headlights, completely confused. Obviously Eve was alive after she ate the fruit, but according the God's commandment, she should be dead. At that moment in time, the moment Adam saw that Eve was alive after she ate the fruit, there was absolutely no logical reason for Adam not to also eat the fruit. We have no idea what Adam was thinking at that moment, but clearly he was thinking something. Perhaps Adam reasoned that God had lied to him, and was thus very disappointed in God, or more likely that Adam had misunderstood the commandment. I think the latter is more likely given that Adam gave a completely wrong commandment to Eve. Adam had a very poor memory when it came to repeating commandments given to him.

 

Adam and Eve would have been in emotional shock after they had the new and immediate experience of being ashamed of being naked. Why would being naked be a "bad" thing, when moments before eating a fruit they never gave it any thought. This emotional stress clearly was the reason they could not more fully explain to God what happened. Consider all the other "bad" thoughts that would also be in their minds at the moment in time, all coming to the brain at once. Of course, God already knew exactly what had happened (God is all knowing). It is completely reasonable that Adam told God that Eve gave him the fruit, she did. But, there was no mention of any explanation as to why Adam ate what was given to him. Eve did not put a gun to head of Adam and force him to eat. The reason Adam ate the fruit was because he observed that Eve was still alive and not dead after eating it. And Eve likewise gave God a truthful answer--that the serpent beguiled her [charmed her to see the many wonderful aspects of the fruit--it was "good", "pleasant", contained knowledge].

 

I suggest that God's motivation to have the events occur as they did was that there were signs given to God from the daily feeding activities of Adam or Eve that they were very close to eating from the Tree of Life, and thus living forever. Because of God's great love for Adam and Eve, he did not want them to live forever on earth, he wished them to live with him in heaven. It is clear in Genesis that this was a major concern for God--the chance event that either Adam or Eve would eat from the Tree of Life and live forever on earth. Thus, I propose that God allowed the serpent to enter the garden, not sent to deceive, but to inform Eve that she was given a false commandment, thus setting in motion the events that would allow God to remove Adam and Eve from the garden so that they could die, then move to heaven to be forever with God. The punishments given to Adam and Eve would make sure that all humans after would experience great sorrow on the earth and thus welcome the opportunity to live with God after they died.

 

I find it impossible to accept that an all loving God knowingly gave a misleading commandment to Eve. That God added a do not touch requirement not given to Adam that could only lead to confusion (which it did), and that God would have deleted the critical information about when Eve would die if she touched the fruit, which could only lead to more confusion and misinterpretation by Eve (which it did). No, it was Adam that gave the misleading commandment to Eve, man is responsible for the actions in the garden, not God.

 

Both were initially instructed 'not to eat'' date=' which [i']implies[/i] touching.
Not true at all for Adam. All that is clear is that Adam never touched the fruit in front of Eve, otherwise she would have known that the commandment given to her was false after she observed that Adam did not die after touching the fruit.

 

The serpent wasn't telling her she wouldn't die' date=' he was telling her that she 'misunderstood God's meaning' because later she said "the serpent beguiled (tricked) me" (Gen. 3:13)[/quote']

Completely false.

 

The serpent directly and truthfully told Eve she would not die, in response to the reason she gave, which was that she was not allowed to "touch" the fruit. When Eve told God that the serpent "beguiled" her, she did not mean that the serpent "tricked" her, but that the serpent "charmed her or delighted her" [the proper definition of the word beguiled in the context of the events] to believe that the fruit was "good for food" [Genesis 3:6], was "pleasant to the eyes" [Genesis 3:6], was "a fruit that would make one wise" [Genesis 3:6]---all of which were truth statements made by the serpent to Eve concerning the moral value of the fruit. In no way did the serpent "tick" or "deceive" Eve. Nor did the serpent in anyway cause Eve to misunderstand God's meaning as to the value of the fruit, for the simple reason that neither God nor Adam told Eve anything about the value of the fruit--it was the serpent that gave her that information. As stated above, all we know is that Eve was given a false and misleading commandment concerning touching the fruit and the time it would take to die, she was never told anything about the intrinsic value of the fruit until she was beguiled [charmed and delighted] by the serpent.

 

Adam and Eve were removed from the garden by God for one reason only, to prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life and living forever on earth.

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Absolutely a false statement. Eve surely did not die when she touched the fruit. The wise serpent knew that Eve was given a false commandment.

 

They were in the 'garden of Eden', Eden is Heaven, which is a supernatural place. Therefore, the death they suffered was one of their spirit. It wasn't a physical death, but a spiritual one.

 

if God sent serpent to deceive then handled out punishment for following orders ?). Clearly the serpent had a reason by God for being in the garden, but the facts do not indicate that it was to deceive, as discussed below.

 

The garden is Paradise, and the serpent (Lucifer) was one of the creatures 'of the garden' (the anointed cherub) meaning it was created in the garden and so it had every right to be there. On its own volition the serpent deceived because of the wickedness of its own heart.

 

Eve and Adam's supernatural self died at the time. Paradise is a supernatural place and you need to be supernatural to live there. A spirit is supernatural. After their spirits died they went back to a mortal state:

 

"Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked." (heart = spirit) (Deut. 10:16, Ex. 32:9)

"You stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears..." (Acts 7:51)

 

After the garden their supernatural spirit died and became 'covered by veil/foreskin', thus the reason why the heart/spirit must be circumcised. It's a spiritual thing, not a physical thing.

 

From reading Genesis events happened very quick after Eve spoke to the serpent. Adam and Eve were said to be together, but clearly Adam did not hear the conversation between Eve and the serpent otherwise he would have stopped Eve from eating the fruit after she touched it.

 

We have no idea of a time-line because time doesn't exist in God's realm. Time and mortality were a result of the curse.

 

When Eve experienced the outcome of being alive after she touched the fruit (recall, she would have reasoned that she would die the instant she touched the fruit) she was overjoyed, and then of course did eat of the fruit, which was the only way to gain the good knowledge that it contained. In the mind of Eve, the critical part of the commandment given to HER was that she should never touch the fruit, for if after touching she was still alive, whether or not she ate the fruit would be a moot point to her mind.

 

Lucifer tempted her with 'wisdom' ("a tree desired to make one wise" Gen. 3:6)

 

Adam and Eve would have been in emotional shock after they had the new and immediate experience of being ashamed of being naked. Why would being naked be a "bad" thing,

 

It was spiritual nakedness.

 

Not true at all for Adam. All that is clear is that Adam never touched the fruit in front of Eve, otherwise she would have known that the commandment given to her was false after she observed that Adam did not die after touching the fruit.

 

"...she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also to her husband with her; and he did eat." (Gen. 3:6b)

 

 

Adam and Eve were removed from the garden by God for one reason only, to prevent them from eating from the Tree of Life and living forever on earth.

 

It was the Tree of Life that they ate from, also known as the Tree of Wisdom, and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. There is only one tree in the midst of Paradise, the very focal point of it.

 

 

They were naked from the beginning (Gen. 2:25) and not ashamed because they were innocent, in a state of blissful ignorance. After they ate wisdom however, they were no longer ignorant and suddenly realized that they were without covering (righteousness - Gen.3:7). They could have remained in the garden indefinitely had they not eaten from the Tree of Life.

 

If we get wisdom we can then enter Paradise but they, already being in Paradise, it had a reverse affect on them.

 

"Happy is the man that finds wisdom, and the man that gets understanding.

She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retains her." (Prov. 3:13-18))

 

"the fruit of the righteous is a tree of life" (Prov. 11:30)

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Hey. Joined this site to share research and photography of an unusual artifact that I found. As you move a light around it (stone #1), different images appear. Lit from above :

Looks like an oval head with squinty eyes, puffy cheeks, blowing out the wind. It's a sun-face. Stone #1 has many hidden mirror images lit this way. Here's one :

Changing the light source on stone #1 without a mirror :

A bearded face, winking and smiling, pointing up with his forefinger, a lightining bolt going down. Turn image on side for :

There's a woman's face @ middle top of photo. The sun-face is blowing wind through her right side. She appears to be offering a bright spot. Cover her face and the top of the image. Is that a depiction of the tree of life in the foreground? Is the lightining bolt striking her or what's in front of her........ For more images from stone #1, view : http://s1138.photobucket.com/albums/n534/coreygilbert ......... Peace.

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  • 2 weeks later...
They were in the 'garden of Eden', Eden is Heaven, which is a supernatural place.
This is a nonsense statement. Read the book. Genesis 2:5 "...And every plant of the field before it was in the earth..." Genesis 2:8 ...."And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed...".

 

Eden is not in heaven, Eden is in the earth.

 

Eve and Adam's supernatural self died at the time.
Nonsense. The bible says nothing about any supernatural death of Adam and Eve. It only mentions that they died after living many years and having many children.

 

Lucifer tempted her with 'wisdom'
Nonsense' date=' Adam and Eve already were told by God that the tree was called "knowledge of good and evil", that it had wisdom. They did not require any "tempting", it was plain and clear understanding they already had.

 

The serpent in Eden was just that, a formed creature of the garden that Genesis calls "subtile" (Gen: 3:1), which means the serpent was keen and able to discriminate the fact that Eve had been given a false commandment about not touching the fruit (God never gave any commandment about touching, it was Adam that falsely told Eve she could not touch the fruit). The serpent in Eden garden was not Lucifer. We know this is true because God cursed the serpent "above all cattle, above every beast of the field". God would never curse one of his angels this way. Lucifer was an angel, a very special type of creation, not a "creature". God never sent Lucifer to the garden. An all good God would never punish an angel for doing what told to do, to tempt Eve and Adam. No, there was no tempting, only a very stupid Adam who could not remember from one time to another exactly what commandment God had given him.

 

It was spiritual nakedness.
Nonsense, this is a myth. The nakedness was physical. What the story informs is the fact the the fruit really did hold "knowledge", which means it held "information", not just atoms and energy. Therefore, upon eating the fruit, knowledge (information) was transferred to first Eve then Adam. The fruit did not pass on to humans matter and energy in the form of atoms, it passed on information, knowledge, wisdom, all of these being good things for a human to have, as we learn in Proverbs 3:13.

 

There is only one tree in the midst of Paradise' date=' the very focal point of it.[/quote']Completely false. Genesis is clear that there are two trees, otherwise why would God at the end of the garden story say...."and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take ALSO from the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever." (Gen 3:22). The ALSO word used by God indicates there were two different trees. Please, stop telling what what he said, God said there were two trees.

 

They could have remained in the garden indefinitely had they not eaten from the Tree of Life.
You just make up whatever myth you wish. They never ate from the Tree of Life as clearly stated by God. Adam did not "find" wisdom' date=' it was given to him by Eve

 

"Happy is the man that finds wisdom, and the man that gets understanding.

She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her

. This weak attempt to hold onto your false understanding of the garden story clearly indicates you have o idea how to read and connect the different parts of the bible. The word Wisdom as used in Proverbs is a special type of "tree of life', having nothing at all to with the tree of life found in the Garden of Eden, they are two completely different trees. The Tree of Life in the Garden allowed Adam and Eve to live "forever", if they had ate from it, it had absolutely nothing to do with transfer of wisdom, that was the role of the other tree, the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The tree of life of wisdom as given in Proverbs does not have anything to do with living forever. You would know this if you had taken the time to read Proverbs 4:10 which teaches "...receive my sayings (about wisdom); and the years of thy life shall be many...". Thus, the tree of life associated with wisdom in Proverbs only allows humans to have "many years" of live, not to live forever. There is only one tree of life that allows humans to live forever, and it remains in the sealed Garden of Eden.
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This is a nonsense statement. Read the book. Genesis 2:5 "...And every plant of the field before it was in the earth..." Genesis 2:8 ...."And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed...". "

 

Two different things here:

Gen. 2:5 - speaking of the earth

Gen. 2:8 - speaking of Eden (Garden/Paradise/Third Heaven)

 

Eden is not in heaven, Eden is in the earth.

 

Please tell me where on the earth Eden is so I can go there.

 

The bible says nothing about any supernatural death of Adam and Eve. It only mentions that they died after living many years and having many children.

 

"...Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it; for in the day you eat thereof, you shall surely die." (Gen. 2:17)

 

They ate, they died.

 

Adam and Eve already were told by God that the tree was called "knowledge of good and evil", that it had wisdom.

 

Where does it say this in Genesis?

 

Nonsense, this is a myth. The nakedness was physical. What the story informs is the fact the the fruit really did hold "knowledge", which means it held "information", not just atoms and energy. Therefore, upon eating the fruit, knowledge (information) was transferred to first Eve then Adam. The fruit did not pass on to humans matter and energy in the form of atoms, it passed on information, knowledge, wisdom, all of these being good things for a human to have, as we learn in Proverbs 3:13.

 

"Therefore bear fruits worthy of repentance" (Matt. 3:8)

 

"...to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. (8) For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful" (2 Peter 1:5-9)

 

Completely false. Genesis is clear that there are two trees, otherwise why would God at the end of the garden story say...."and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take ALSO from the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever."

 

I already explained that it has a reverse affect on them because they were already in the garden. If they ate again from that tree whilst still in the garden, they would live forever, which would have been detrimental in their dead state.

 

(Gen 3:22). The ALSO word used by God indicates there were two different trees. Please, stop telling what what he said, God said there were two trees.

 

Also means 'again' or 'once more'.

 

Gen. 2:9 - the and is and/or

 

You just make up whatever myth you wish. They never ate from the Tree of Life as clearly stated by God. Adam did not "find" wisdom, it was given to him by Eve

 

Nonsense

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http://interlinearbible.org/genesis/3.htm

 

גַּם

 

addition (1), alike (1), all (1), all* (1), also (364), although (1), any (3), besides (4), bitterly* (1), both (28), both you and also (1), both* (6), certainly (2), either (6), either by or (1), even (114), even they also (2), even they too (1), furthermore (15), however (1), indeed (21), itself (1), likewise (5), merely (1), moreover (17), moreover* (1), neither* (5), neither (1), nevertheless (1), nor (4), nor yet (1), nor* (4), now (3), now* (2), only (1), or (4), part also (1), previously* (1), so (1), spite* (1), still (1), still* (1), then (1), therefore (1), though (2), times* (2), together (2), too (30), truly (2), turn (2), very (1), well (6), what is more (1), whether (1), yes (9), yet (6).

 

strong's concordance:

By contraction from an unused root meaning to gather; properly, assemblage; used only adverbially also, even, yea, though; often repeated as correl. Both...and -- again, alike, also, (so much) as (soon), both (so)...and, but, either...or, even, for all, (in) likewise (manner), moreover, nay...neither, one, then(-refore), though, what, with, yea.

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