Depression (Clinical)

[TheBigDog]

The following is my own opinion, based upon my own observations, and supported by nothing I have ever found documented. Call it my own hypothesis. I have been actively experimenting with some subjects who will remain nameless. Thus far my results are directly in line with my hypothesis. However I have yet to gather enough information to call it conclusive. But I am not going to let that stop me from giving the world my "opinion".

 

I believe that many so called disorders such as depression and bipolar are first world syndromes that result from too much idle time and a lack of purpose. When a person has to work all day or they choose to work all day at a selected task that they enjoy, the less likely they are to have a disorder. An idle mind is the devil's playground after all.

 

If you live in the third world, and you have no vacation, and you have no supermarket, and you have no babysitter, and you might have running water, and you need to dig a privvy every now and again, and you don't have endless toilet paper, and you don't have electric lighting, and you don't have electricity, and you don't have air conditioning in the summer, and you don't have mordern heating in the winter, and life is a challenge every day to eek out a living and just to survive. Then you don't have time to depression. If you get deressed you might die. You have focus. You have purpose. Even if it is motivated by the base need for survivial. When nice things happen in this environment, people truely enjoy it, because most of the time life is hard, and nice things are a joy.

 

The more excess spare time people have, the more pampered a person's existance, the more easily frustrated and disapointed people become with the slights that invade their comfortable world. The worst day in this world would be among the finest days in the 3rd world. Yet the days drone on without purpose. Always looking for options, for an elusive happiness. When nice things happen they are judged and compared the the various other nice things that have come along. Appreciation is replaced by apprehension and apathy.

 

The second culprit I see is the lack of definition in people's lives. In the past in the US, and currently in some more structured cultures people knew who they were. Their lives were constructed around that purpose. And they needed to excel at their profession to get ahead. Now many people no longer define their life by their profession. In fact they don't even have a profession in mind. They settle for a whim or an extra dollar per hour. They go through school with no idea what they may end up doing. No goal. Just education as a pastime to avoid responsibility. Major? Who cares! I have my whole life ahead of me. Then ten years later they are the night manager at a 7/11 with a degree in History and they are depressed because they can't find a job that their major applies to.

 

Me: "What do you like doing?"

Subject: "I like airplanes. I think it would be cool to be a pilot."

Me: "Then you might want to consider Aeronautical Engineering, or look into the opportunities in the service"

Subject: "I don't know. I don't really like math and I don't want to die in Iraq. I am going to start as a theater arts major with an emphasis on puppet theater and see where it leads me."

Me: "Do you like acting? Or kneeling behind a board with a sock on your hand?"

Subject: "What are you talking about? I am going to be a pilot. Or an architect. I like designing houses. But first I need to get my degree."

Me: "Good luck with that then!"

 

Has anyone had a simliar conversation? Would you be suprised if this person ended up depressed? They never go hungery. They never acheive much. They never accomplish a dream. And the spend all their idle time angry at themselves for the things they don't have. And it is never fair. It is always someone elses fault for the bad decisions they make that put them in misery. Maybe the pills help. I don't know.

 

This is not to say that there is no such thing as mental and emotional disorders. It is to say that what I see happening with the modern pattern of diagnosing everything as a condition is mostly BS. Very often the cure is purpose. The cure is knowing what you want and driving for it. And it is the disipline to say no to the things that distract you from that purpose.

 

Bill

[Michaelangelica]

A resource:

 

http://www.crufad.com/cru_index.htm

Two thirds of people with anxiety and depression go without proper treatment, even in rich countries like the US, the UK or Australia.

This website, backed by the University of New South Wales, St Vincent's Hospital, Sydney and the World Health Organization Collaborating Center at the hospital, aims to remedy this.

It offers information so that some people can help themselves, it offer comprehensive information so that doctors can know the right treatment, and it offers information on the latest in our research.

A related website http://www.climate.tv offers education about the management of anxiety and depression and other disorders.

Access to those programs can be prescribed by your doctor.

 

Check the three information sources: Self Help, Clinician Support, and Research.

 

Contact Us:

 

This site can be reached by five URLs:

http://www.crufad.org;

http://www.crufad.com;

http://www.AforAnxiety.com;

http://www.DforDepression.com;

http://www.gpcare.org

 

Edited by Gavin Andrews MD, UNSW, Jan 03

© 2003 CRUfAD

[Michaelangelica]

 

This is not to say that there is no such thing as mental and emotional disorders. It is to say that what I see happening with the modern pattern of diagnosing everything as a condition is mostly BS. Very often the cure is purpose. The cure is knowing what you want and driving for it. And it is the disipline to say no to the things that distract you from that purpose.

 

Bill

 

Clinical depression is not BS.

It is deadly serious.

[TheBigDog]

Clinical depression is not BS.

It is deadly serious.

Yes, it is a very serious thing. However it is a self perpetuating industry. By definition you are not cured of clinical depression, you can only control it. So if the method of control is pharmacutical you create lifetime customers by diagnosis. Since you cannot obtain such medicine without a prescription you also have lifetime customers by diagnosis. If such conditions are found to have genetic tendencies, and by "normalizing" people they prosper and reproduce in numbers that they may not have otherwise then you have generations of lifetime customers. I tend to want to throw out that last bit, but it lingers as one of the reasons for ever increasing health care costs.

 

It has been demonstrated that many people with depression can control it through non pharmicutical therapy, such as counceling, lifestyle change, diet change, exercise, job change, etc. It is a condition of modern man to want to have a condition so that they can have a excuse for their behavior. And someone else to blame for their shortcomings. To me a great deal of it comes back to personal accountability, and simple self disipline.

 

Now in saying that I acknowledge that there are cases where medications may be the only recourse for a person begin put into a position to help themselves. But in every singe case, the medecine alone does not do the job, it does not remove the root causes of anguish in life. The individual still must step up and change.

 

Many of the emotional ailments of man are more cultural than physical.

 

Bill

[Michaelangelica]

It has been demonstrated that many people with depression can control it through non pharmicutical therapy,

 

Now in saying that I acknowledge that there are cases where medications may be the only recourse for a person begin put into a position to help themselves.

 

Many of the emotional ailments of man are more cultural than physical.

 

Bill

Agreed.

Hopefully medication is only used in the acute phase.

Many of the emotional ailments of man are more cultural than physical.

Yes,

but. . .

What I have tried to show in the posts I have made from different web sites is that there is often an underling undiagnosed physical cause such as a virus.

Sadly,we seem happier to accept a disease like depression then.

There is less prejudice as it is seen as a"real" illness not just a 'psychological' one.

[celtfaery]

I have an issue with some of the points made in this thread. First of all, mental illnesses, including clinical depression, bipolar disorder, and schizophrenia are not a "first world syndromes" (thank you TBD :eek2: ). In ancient times ( and really, even into the 20th century), people who were mentally ill were at the very least ostracized or in worst case scenarios, killed because of their actions or behaviors. How many people were institutionalized because of their illness? For an extremely long time these institutions were simply warehouses of human "garbage". There were no treatments available, they patients were experimented on, and often lived and died in hideous conditions. Today there are medications and other treatments available for those afflicted with such conditions. Unfortunately, even modern medicine can't cure/help all patients. In many cases, mental illness is not cured, only managed.

Just as a side note, why does it seem like creative genius is linked to some of these mental illnesses? Could there truly be a link between illness and creativity? By all accounts, Hemingway, Bronte, and Van Gogh had undiagnosed illnesses. Would curing all illness eliminate that creativity in the world?

Shannon

[Michaelangelica]

Just as a side note, why does it seem like creative genius is linked to some of these mental illnesses? Could there truly be a link between illness and creativity? By all accounts, Hemingway, Bronte, and Van Gogh had undiagnosed illnesses. Would curing all illness eliminate that creativity in the world?

Shannon

No arguments on any of the points you make.

Bi-polar as the name suggests has periods of great elation and maybe creativity.

It used to be called manic/depressive psychosis

Some refuse medication because they loose the 'highs'

Schizophrenia is the only condition I would have doubts about. A full blown schizophrenic would have difficulty organising his thoughts.

 

I once had a patient when I was a psychiatric nurse diagnosed schizophrenic ( a very broad term a bit like saying someone has the flu).

I came across him painting a beautiful gum in the hospital ground. His tree was amazing.

It radiated psychedelic colours from the entire tree. It looked like it was pulsing rainbows.

I complimented him on the painting. He said somewhat sadly "I am only painting what I see." he had dropped a lot of acid (LSD) and was on a permanent trip.

I got the feeling he would do anything to see the tree as I saw it.

 

I will start a thread, one day, on schizophrenia as it is very interesting condition.

 

You might be interested in this web site.

http://www.mcmanweb.com/famous_people.htm

Publishing lists of famous people with depression or bipolar disorder runs a grave risk of glorifying these terrible illnesses

,

 

If you register here there are a number of articles on bipolar for doctors and psychologists. (You might have to hunt arround to find how to register.

They do have regular interesting mail outs)

http://www.medfair.com/content/cme/classes/distancerounds/jefferson/jefferson2.htm

6.21.06 From the desk of Sebastian . . .

 

Bipolar Disorder: Therapeutic Options James W. Jefferson, M.D.

 

Earn Free CME Credit: What factors influence the treatment of bipolar disorder? What pharmacologic and nonpharmacologic interventions are effective in treating patients with this condition? In our new Distance Rounds, you can learn strategies to optimize treatment for your patients with bipolar disorder.

Distance Rounds are interactive classes that provide evidence-based education so that you can improve patient care.

 

Other free CME activities on bipolar disorder are available, including the following:

 

Enhancing Diagnostic Accuracy for Bipolar Disorder Terence A. Ketter, M.D.

 

Focus on Bipolar Disorder Treatment: Long-Term Treatment and Psychosocial Management Charles L. Bowden, MD (Chair) and Michael E. Thase, MD

 

Treating Suicidality in Bipolar Disorder Cheryl A. Chessick, M.D.

 

Focus on Bipolar Disorder Treatment: Psychosocial Management of Bipolar Disorder Michael E. Thase, M.D.

[Michaelangelica]

Diabetes and Depression

Depression and Type 2 Diabetes

http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-research/summaries/brown-depression.jsp

 

History of depression increases risk of type 2 diabetes in younger adults, by L.C. Brown and colleagues. Diabetes Care 28:1063-1067, 2005.

 

 

What is the problem and what is known about it so far?

[CerebralEcstasy]

Sorry i can't find the excellent article I had on bi-polar

But this on the appaling state of mis- and under-diagnosis should shock everone.

Inappropriate treatment due to misdiagnosis can have a harmful effect on patients and potentially makes the illness harder to treat; antidepressants alone have been shown to induce mania or hypomania (a mild form of mania) in some patients with bipolar depression.

 

I was actually going to make mention of this in my original post, but it didn't really seem to fit with what I was trying to convey at the time.

 

It should have been noted by the physician that there was a familial history of mental illness on my mothers chart. This should have by theory tipped him off to the fact that there might be more than just mere depression at work.

 

However, unfortunately due to workload, and stress many doctors are unable to spend quality time with each individual. Most allot a 15 minute time frame in which to see their patients.

 

This has got me thinking about something else, which I'll post a new thread on.....

[Michaelangelica]

Very interesting article on Virusus and schizophrenia and bipolar disorder.

http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/article/showArticle.jhtml?articleId=189500142&pgno=2

Another reason to look for infectious agents in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder is the well-established association between the risk of these disorders and winter-spring seasonal birth.6 There have been more than 200 studies of this phenomenon, and it remains one of the most highly replicated findings of these diseases. Because many infectious diseases occur seasonally, with a peak in the winter or spring, it is reasonable to postulate that fetal or newborn infection could contribute to subsequent mental illness.7

/forums/images/smilies/banana_sign.gif

 

Current research

 

At the present time, we are focusing our research on 4 infectious agents as possible causes of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. These are T gondii, HSV-1 and HSV-2, CMV, and endogenous retroviruses.

Very interesting

Well worth a read

Endogenous retroviruses

 

Endogenous retroviruses are DNA elements that have become part of the human genome through infection and integration into germ line cells of humans and nonhuman primate progenitors. Retroviruses lie dormant most of the time. When activated, however, they can influence the transcription of genes above or below the site of their chromosomal integration. Genetic polymorphisms of endogenous retroviruses have been linked with an alteration in immune response and increased susceptibility to autoimmune disorders.23

 

Endogenous retroviruses share properties of both genes and infectious agents, and are thus potential links between the two.24 Of particular interest is the fact that endogenous retroviruses may be activated by infections with herpesviruses or protozoan organisms such as Toxoplasma, providing a potential link between infectious agents and genetic elements as causative factors in human psychiatric diseases. Increased retroviral transcription in the CSF and blood of persons with recentonset psychosis supports a possible role for human endogenous retrovirus in the development of schizophrenia.25,26

Implications for clinicians

 

Proving a causative role for infectious agents in schizophrenia and bipolar disorder would open the door to new treatments and disease prevention strategies. With the support of The Stanley Medical Research Institute, we are conducting several double-blind treatment trials that involve the use of adjunctive antibiotics and antiviral medications

[Michaelangelica]

Meditation,

It dents.

 

yes good idea

 

This is a CBS website with a good intro. to the subject

http://www.cbs.com/cbs_cares/depression/

[Michaelangelica]

An interesting new study

http://www.israel21c.org/bin/en.jsp?enDispWho=Articles%5El1351&enPage=BlankPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=object&enVersion=0&enZone=Health

Israeli study find fish oil can aid recovery of depressed children

By Nicky Blackburn July 09, 2006

Omega-3, a fatty acid found in fish oil, has been found to help children diagnosed with clinical depression.

Treatment with omega-3 fatty acids could benefit children suffering from clinical depression, according to a pilot study conducted in Israel.

[paigetheoracle]

I'd agree with Uncle Al about hate being behind depression. It's the frustration of not getting anywhere with something and feeling ignored. It's different from Bipolar disease in that its relation to the future is one of not looking forward to it at all (Elation is seeing an open door to opportunity, whereas depression is only seeing the half full glass, of pessimism [Here be Dragons!]). It is feeling isolated, shut out, unwelcome ('Unmutual' as Patrick McGoohans 'The Prisoner' put it): You won't adapt and won't comprimise and so logically won't be accepted for what you are. By the way it is not other people that let us down but our 'expectations' of them.

[paigetheoracle]

Talking of Aspergers Syndrome - I think I've got it and am clinically depressed but I believe it's because I am sensitive, creative and original and this world isn't (entrance into this world was a big disappointment for me. It was like I was fired out of a 'hope' cannon into a brick wall).

[Michaelangelica]

Talking of Aspergers Syndrome - I think I've got it and am clinically depressed but I believe it's because I am sensitive, creative and original and this world isn't (entrance into this world was a big disappointment for me. It was like I was fired out of a 'hope' cannon into a brick wall).

 

What help are you getting?

(My cousin , who has 10 kids, says all males have Apergers to some degree!:shrug: )

[paigetheoracle]

What help are you getting?

(My cousin , who has 10 kids, says all males have Apergers to some degree!:cup: )

 

None - I'm beyond help! (joke). My doctor thinks the same as he's a bit quirky too in that way. The way I see it it's a scale and ordinary, supposedly normal males are at the top and the further down you go, the less well you function and the stranger you appear to people, that's all.

[Michaelangelica]

None - I'm beyond help! (joke). My doctor thinks the same .

Most GPs are not equipped to handle clinical depression.

If you think you may have it you should ask for a referral to a specialist Psychologist or Psychiatrist. Someone who deals with depression all the time.

 

I would agree that it is a matter of degree, but if it is interfering with your life or relationships you should consider getting professional help.

Males, in particular, are renowned for "soldering on" when it is not only unnecessary but can be positively harmful.