Depression (Clinical)

[Michaelangelica]

I've realized that there is a kind of psychological cycle like manic-depression or bipolar disease but it is based on conscious frustration, trying to reach your goal and disappointment when you do (distance and unattainability versus attainment and proximity: Snippet in give away paper, Metro, stated that researchers in America had discovered a link between masculinity and distance in fruit flies). This is also the basis of energy and lack of it (depression and going nowhere, and elation, through having a goal to move (inspire) you into action).

Manic Depressive psychosis or now "Bi-polar" disease is treated differently from Clinical Depression

It is what Stephen Fry has; but he has decided to live with it rather than medicate. I think he feels it is so much a part of his creative energy that he will castrate his personality with dugs. He is frightened, possibly righly so. Fortunately he has the money to indulge some of the bizarre behaviours of the manic depressive (his, fortunately, is "shopping") Some feel the high is wort the low and suffer in silence

Lithium is still used to treat Bi Polar and, when it works, it works dramatically and well.

 

 

i ment to add this atraing programme for Docs or anyone else who says they are docs. (my vet!)

Login | MyCME | About E-Lerts | About the CME Institute | See all CME Activities | Classifieds

An online curriculum integrating the basics with the latest research.

 

AV 1: Suicide Rates in 2005 for Selected Age Groups (00:12)

Differential Diagnoses and Assessment of Depression in Elderly Patients

Gary W. Small, MD

 

The consequences of depression in older people include a high rate of suicide compared with suicide rates in all other age groups (See AV 1). Participate in this activity to learn about the differential diagnoses of depression in the elderly and to review methods for assessing your patients with this diagnosis.

 

Part of the multi-activity "Depression in the Elderly" series in J Clin Psychlopedia and independently developed by the CME Institute of Physicians Postgraduate Press, Inc., and the American Society of Clinical Psychopharmacology.

 

1 Credit

 

For more free CME activities, visit the CME Institute at Psychiatrist.com. If you are having trouble reading this E-Lert, see http://www.psychiatrist.com/elerts/cme043009b/

Login | MyCME | About E-Lerts | About the CME Institute | See all CME Activities | Classifieds

An online curriculum integrating the basics with the latest research.

 

AV 2: STAR*D Study Remission Rates (00:15)

Treating Major Depression: Antidepressant Algorithms

Michael E. Thase, MD

 

Clinicians have the best chance of getting a patient into remission during the first treatment trial (See AV 2). Read this J Clin Psychlopedia activity to learn how treatment algorithms can help you successfully treat patients with complicated major depression.

 

Part of the multi-activity "Complicated Major Depressive Disorder" series in J Clin Psychlopedia and supported by educational grants from Eli Lilly and Company and Bristol-Myers Squibb Company and Otsuka America Pharmaceutical, Inc.

 

1 Credit

 

If you are having trouble reading this E-Lert, see http://www.psychiatrist.com/elerts/cme043009/

 

Other free J Clin Psychlopedia CME activities:

 

Helping Patients With Depression Achieve Wellness

 

Mark Hyman Rapaport, MD

 

1 Credit

 

Initial Treatment Approaches for Patients With Major Depressive Disorder

 

George I. Papakostas, MD

 

1 Credit

 

For more free CME activities, visit the CME Institute at Psychiatrist.com.

 

You are receiving this update as a benefit of your Net Society membership.

 

To ensure delivery of these messages add [email protected] to your address book. If you would not like to receive further E-Lerts, go to http://www.psychiatrist.com/elerts and click the "Unsubscribe from E-Lerts" link. If you are having trouble unsubscribing, contact the web administrator for assistance

.

[paigetheoracle]

Funnily enough I was at technical college with him (he was in the same campus hostel but on the floor above). I also visited his website after seeing the program he did on manic-depression or bipolar disease (saw the second part but missed the first).

 

Doesn't Lithium give some people uncontrollable, long term shakes? This I believe is the reason he gave up on the drug and decided shopaholicism was preferable (Please correct me if I'm wrong because although I knew him then, he doesn't want to know me know...along with my brother, an aunt, a cousin...):)

[paigetheoracle]

Moderators - I must apologize for the above post as it would have been more appropriate in the recent thread on Bipolar disease but alas work load of new job meant I stuck it where I could, rather than where I should (Kids are tiring - I work as a classroom assistant).:)

[Michaelangelica]

Funnily enough I was at technical college with him (he was in the same campus hostel but on the floor above). I also visited his website after seeing the program he did on manic-depression or bipolar disease (saw the second part but missed the first).

 

Doesn't Lithium give some people uncontrollable, long term shakes? This I believe is the reason he gave up on the drug and decided shopaholicism was preferable (Please correct me if I'm wrong because although I knew him then, he doesn't want to know me know...along with my brother, an aunt, a cousin...):)

I think he was frightened. He did not want to be "born again' into a new person even if that person had no pain. He may have been concerned that the depression was a source of his creativity and inspiration and skill. It may well be, given with so many famous comics suffering from it (Peter Cook, Spike Milligan, etc). He would be aware of this too. He is a very talented, intelligent man. If he was dumber, and less gifted, he might be happier?

I would suggest you reach out to him and try and reconnect. Depressed people don't reach out; they try to stay isolated. Don't recoil if he at first rejects you; that may be the disease Just try again much later; leave him with your contact details.

Can you expand on your previous post I didn't understand it.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The Type of exercise you do when depressed may be important. Most suggest walking but according to this psychiatrist that may not be the best thing

 

Maria Tickle: The most common mental disorder in Australia is depression, and its personal and economic cost to society is enormous. It’s responsible for more than half of all suicides and recent research has indicated depression doubles your chances of having a heart attack. Last year alone through the PBS the government spent more than $155-million on antidepressants such as Zoloft and Arapax.

 

While the effectiveness of antidepressants has been well documented, so have their potential side-effects, especially in the elderly.

According to researcher Nalin Singh, from Sydney’s Balmain Hospital, this group are less likely to stick to their drug regime than younger patients, and the antidepressants can affect their balance, causing them to fall.

 

Dr Singh believes the key to treating depression is exercise. This isn’t news; there have been many studies showing the effectiveness of exercise in reducing depression, but those results were based on aerobic exercise, such as running, and generally involved younger participants. What’s different about Dr Singh’s work isn’t that he’s sending our senior citizens for a run around the block (that’s not possible for a frail 80-year-old, for obvious reasons) but instead to the gym to do weights – and heavy muscle-building weights at that.

 

At the clinic, which is within the Balmain Hospital, his patients are prescribed specific exercises and are heavily supervised by trained staff. 72-year-old David Lewis is one of Singh’s patients, and says in three months the program has changed, if not saved, his life

.

Web Archive Copy: Sports Factor: The Mozart Maulers

 

If you get a chance read also Mozart's Maulers if nothing else it will make you laugh

Dorian Mode: His idea was for me to externalise my anger, he felt that anxiety is really a symptom of something wrong. It’s like a volcano, it’s something bubbling underneath that’s not quite resolved within yourself.

My psych professor, from whom I learnt very little, did leave me with the concept that depression is "anger tuned inwards". There may be a component of that in my depression as I had a very aggressive dad and aggression frightens me.

Certainly self mutilation and suicide may be an example of this. Spike Milligan makes the wonderful comment that "Killing yourself only gets rid of you--not the disease"! :shrug:

 

More from Dorian Mode (who lives locally and teaches music and may even coach football?)

So he wanted me to somehow get that out, somehow bring that to the surface. So he suggested that I start boxing, this was his idea. So I joined the Sydney University boxing team, and I think I had about 16 fights and got knocked out about 18 times. In fact Mundine’s Management of Contact did me for a fight. So that was pretty hopeless, and I was turning up to my piano lessons I remember with my teacher, Mike Knock, with big black eyes and things, and he’s saying, ‘Hey, have you thought about music? Try music.’

 

Maria Tickle: What was your physical state like at that time?

 

Dorian Mode: Well I was like a corpse with a faint pulse, and I was so painfully thin, I was a vegetarian so I was a pleasant shade of green, and I really had no stamina at all, I was just weak. Just a weak, snivelling little wimp. Not a lot has changed, really.

 

Maria Tickle: You described yourself as a psychiatric guinea pig with internal bleeding. So next was fencing. How did you go with that?

 

Dorian Mode: Well fencing was really quite sort of middle-class and prissy. You know, I mean the problem with fencing is it’s all over in a nanosecond. I’m sure it was very exciting in the middle ages. So I gave away fencing for the simple reason it was quite non-confrontational. The boxing was confrontational, and was a great release for the anger.

 

Maria Tickle: And that was the idea, wasn’t it; it was to get you into a sport that was confrontational, that could release this anger that you had inside you related to your childhood and your relationship with your parents.

 

Dorian Mode: That’s right, and that I was turning on myself, essentially. Yes, I think most kids blame themselves for marriage breakups on some level, and I really took it squarely on the shoulders I suppose. My father was married three times. So I was back to the psychiatrist’s and looking for new cures, hoping that he’d just give me the goddamned pills and let me get out of there quite frankly. But he’s the only psychiatrist who took Medicare and I had to keep seeing him. So he then suggested that the boxing had been a disaster, the fencing had been a waste of time, so then he suggested Rugby League, and it was at this time that I thought he was dipping into his own medication.

 

Maria Tickle: Didn’t you throw your shoe at him?

 

Dorian Mode: I did, yes I threw my shoe at him. He ducked. And I decided OK, I’ll give the Rugby League a go just to satisfy him and then get my goddamned pills and leave.

Web Archive Copy: Sports Factor: The Mozart Maulers

[paigetheoracle]

He may have been concerned that the depression was a source of his creativity and inspiration and skill. It may well be, given with so many famous comics suffering from it (Peter Cook, Spike Milligan, etc). He would be aware of this too. He is a very talented, intelligent man. If he was dumber, and less gifted, he might be happier?

 

Well that sounds like me with my migraines

 

I would suggest you reach out to him and try and reconnect.

 

Depressed people don't reach out; they try to stay isolated. Don't recoil if he at first rejects you; that may be the disease Just try again much later; leave him with your contact details.

 

I could leave him my contact details but that would be all.

 

Can you expand on your previous post I didn't understand it.

 

Which part exactly?

 

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

The Type of exercise you do when depressed may be important. Most suggest walking but according to this psychiatrist that may not be the best thing

 

Maria Tickle: The most common mental disorder in Australia is depression, and its personal and economic cost to society is enormous. It’s responsible for more than half of all suicides and recent research has indicated depression doubles your chances of having a heart attack. Last year alone through the PBS the government spent more than $155-million on antidepressants such as Zoloft and Arapax.

 

.

Web Archive Copy: Sports Factor: The Mozart Maulers

 

If you get a chance read also Mozart's Maulers if nothing else it will make you laugh

 

My psych professor, from whom I learnt very little, did leave me with the concept that depression is "anger tuned inwards". There may be a component of that in my depression as I had a very aggressive dad and aggression frightens me.

Certainly self mutilation and suicide may be an example of this. Spike Milligan makes the wonderful comment that "Killing yourself only gets rid of you--not the disease"! :)

 

My migraines are anger turned inwards and like bipolar disease, throw me in one direction then another - I personally think of depression in the above as running out of steam and crashing into your own hell because running on empty burns out your engine

 

More from Dorian Mode (who lives locally and teaches music and may even coach football?)

 

Web Archive Copy: Sports Factor: The Mozart Maulers

 

I missed the first of the Stephen Fry documentaries you mentioned but caught the second and was impressed.

[paigetheoracle]

 

(Please correct me if I'm wrong because although I knew him then, he doesn't want to know me know...along with my brother, an aunt, a cousin...):)

 

Mike is the above the problem? It should of course be "know me 'now'," not "know me know" (probably too depressed to notice or care at the time): The reference to various relatives means that they don't want to talk to me either (Snubbed by one and all because of my Bugs Bunny tendencies no doubt and probably I'm going to be sacked for the same reason (currently suspended - don't pass go, don't collect £200).

 

I think the price for all this brilliance is the crash that follows (connection, followed by disconnection/ building followed by collapse/ self-loving by self-loathing (the day after the drunken binge and the hangover that follows).

[Michaelangelica]

Effectively Managing Pain With Depression

ScienceDaily (May 30, 2009) — Pain, the most common reason for adults to visit a primary care physician, and depression, the most frequent mental complaint requiring a doctor's appointment, occur together as often as half the time.

. ..

More study on the basic science and clinical levels needs to be done on both pain and the link between pain and depression, which may share common biological pathways, to develop better options," said Dr. Kroenke, an Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis Chancellor's Professor.

 

The 250 individuals in the JAMA study had low back, hip, or knee pain for three months or longer and at least moderate depression. They were randomized into two groups. The control group of 127 received usual care from their internists for both depression and pain. The other 123 received careful monitoring of the medications prescribed for their depression plus 12 weeks of pain self-management training. This training included muscle relaxation and deep breathing exercises as well as coping, distraction and other tactics.

 

Those whose depression medications were closely monitored and who were trained in pain self- management were two to three times more likely to have decreased depression than those in the control group.

Pain severity and disability also lessened. These benefits continued for the six months after optimising antidepressant therapy and pain self-management had been completed.

Effectively Managing Pain With Depression

%0% of people with pain have depression; interesting statistic.

I have always thought of depression as a type of pain anyway- Literally" Heartache".- Perhaps the reason heartsease (Viola tricolour) may help?

 

This is the post I don't understand

paigetheoracle

Re: Depression (Clinical)

I've realized that there is a kind of psychological cycle like manic-depression or bipolar disease but it is based on conscious frustration, trying to reach your goal and disappointment when you do (distance and unattainability versus attainment and proximity: Snippet in give away paper, Metro, stated that researchers in America had discovered a link between masculinity and distance in fruit flies). This is also the basis of energy and lack of it (depression and going nowhere, and elation, through having a goal to move (inspire) you into action).

[paigetheoracle]

Right, let's see if I can rephrase it to show the logic of my reasoning and the connections I make that perhaps others wouldn't.

 

Male aggression comes I think from wanting something but not getting it. This implies distance between the desired goal and the person wanting to obtain it as getting destroys this gap between the haves and have nots (class I see as the same thing or promotion in a job as is trying to keep up with the Jones's (fashion)). The disappointment comes I believe from realizing that the prize is never as important as the journey towards getting it. Energy and depression is about being grounded as opposed to free to roam (The injured, mentally or physically, are restricted in movement - either getting nowhere/ going nowhere or hobbling about at a reduced rate, rather than running off at top speed anywhere and everywhere their 'heart' desires). Hope this clarifies things - if not, point out particular 'heart felt' difficulties that occur in your understanding i.e. those things that perplex and therefore depress you :)

[Michaelangelica]

Right, let's see if I can rephrase it to show the logic of my reasoning and the connections I make that perhaps others wouldn't.

 

Male aggression comes I think from wanting something but not getting it.

Yes i can understand That.

But is that the full story?

For many that would engender just frustration or disappointment rather than anger. So could male overreaction be part of the problem?

• Males biologically and genetically are surely here to protected the female and children and to provide for them. Yet there seems to be a lot of occasions when this does not happen often to a criminal degree. How come this aggression so obviously against our own genetic interests?
  
• Males tend to need status and position in a group. Typically males define themselves as their job, unlike females who seldom seem to. The first question a male asks strange, or just met 'other', is, "What do you do?". Would threats to this status engender aggression?
  
• Would loosing said job lead to confusion, self-loathing and anger with self thus leading to aggression and/or depression?
  
• Role models. What effect does this have? "My Dad taught me to box" "My hero is Some ape like footballer". Violent video or media. Violent religions like Judaism Islam and Christianity. Violet societies (Russia? Iraq, New Guinea, Africa (bits of), Afghanistan, USA?). If one cannot relate to this violence does that make for social displacement, anger and depression?
  

 

 

"Happiness is overrated. Nobody ever accomplished anything great while they were happy."

[lemit]

Depression seems to have been very popular the last 20 years or so. I have been diagnosed with it numerous times and put on every new anti-depressant that comes along. They have all made me very sick with the clinical diagnosis of depression: headaches, fatigue, muscle and joint pain, loss of appetite, general malaise. I have tried St. Johns Wort--same result. Every time I have given up on an anti-depressant, I have given up on the prescribing doctor. I've become known as a "collaborative" patient. I love euphemisms.

 

I did finally diagnose my "depression" all by myself. I'm not going to say what it is beyond a vitamin deficiency, because I don't want people to assume that I have found a solution that will work for them. I don't even want to describe my methodology, since it's open to misinterpretation. I want people to keep trying to find their own individual solutions.

 

To quote "Monty Python's Life of Brian:" "Don't follow me. Don't follow anybody. You've got to think for yourself!"

 

--lemit

 

p.s. I believe very strongly in medical doctors. It's just that I also believe in myself.

[paigetheoracle]

Yes i can understand That.

But is that the full story?

For many that would engender just frustration or disappointment rather than anger. So could male overreaction be part of the problem?

 

Probably

 

• Males biologically and genetically are surely here to protected the female and children and to provide for them. Yet there seems to be a lot of occasions when this does not happen often to a criminal degree. How come this aggression so obviously against our own genetic interests?
   
  Because of selfishness and short sightedness in males, whose only interest is in short term gratification, unlike females, who are the real care givers by role because they care for the future more than the males (child minders, not just child givers through sex)
   
  
• Males tend to need status and position in a group. Typically males define themselves as their job, unlike females who seldom seem to. The first question a male asks strange, or just met 'other', is, "What do you do?". Would threats to this status engender aggression?
   
  All ego stuff
   
  
• Would loosing said job lead to confusion, self-loathing and anger with self thus leading to aggression and/or depression?
   
  Most definitely YES
   
  
• Role models. What effect does this have? "My Dad taught me to box" "My hero is Some ape like footballer". Violent video or media. Violent religions like Judaism Islam and Christianity. Violet societies (Russia? Iraq, New Guinea, Africa (bits of), Afghanistan, USA?). If one cannot relate to this violence does that make for social displacement, anger and depression?
  

 

It only leads to anger and depression, if you want to be a part of it

 

 

"Happiness is overrated. Nobody ever accomplished anything great while they were happy."

 

Too damn true with regards to the cartoon! If we didn't want anything as the ancients teach us, we'd be happy with our lot and healthy. It is this striving to be accepted/ acceptable that is the problem ("Conform, conform - do things my way! Conform, conform - do what I say!"). As I say all ego stuff

 

Another obvious connection (to me at least) is erectile dysfunction and depression, which can also be artificially induced by alcohol, a depressant itself

[Michaelangelica]

Painkiller ban 'has cut suicides'

Co-proxamol

Co-proxamol is linked to fatal overdoses

 

The controversial withdrawal of a common painkiller has dramatically cut suicides, say researchers.

 

A gradual phase-out of co-proxamol led to 350 fewer suicides and accidental deaths in England and Wales, a study in the British Medical Journal reports.

 

Regulators removed the drug's licence in 2007 after fears about the risk of overdose but the move proved unpopular with some patients and doctors.

BBC NEWS | Health | Painkiller ban 'has cut suicides'

 

 

There is no robust evidence that co-proxamol offers any advantage over paracetamol or ibuprofen at normal doses

MHRA spokesman

 

paigetheoracle

Another obvious connection (to me at least) is erectile dysfunction and depression, which can also be artificially induced by alcohol, a depressant itself

Blood pressure is crucial here.

Many BP medications castrate males (except for Viagra).

[Michaelangelica]

Herbs Can Treat Emotional and Mental Problems

Natural Herbs for Depression

 

Numerous studies are funded, then it seems that the researchers find no beneficial use in herbal products. There are many reasons for this outcome.

 

Most studies using Saint John’s Wort were limited to the use of standardized remedies. This is a potential problem because the effective use of herbs, proven over thousands of years, shows that healing occurs with properly prepared remedies - whole herb remedies.

 

One study completed in 2002, reported in the Pharmer’s Almanac (Herb Pharm), showed that the bioflavonoid compounds in Saint John’s Wort (SJW) are required for effectiveness. Standardized SJW compounds eliminate the bioflavonoid compounds.

 

This finding supports the importance of using whole herb remedies

Always been a bit suspicious of stardardised herbal remedies.

SJW is a weed; why pay $25 a bottle for it? (denatured at that).

[Michaelangelica]

Media Release

 

October 23 2009

Fish oil for treatment of depression in heart disease

 

Dr Narelle Berry conducts an ultrasound testA new Adelaide study will investigate whether taking fish oil capsules can reduce the symptoms of depression in people with heart disease.

 

As scientists around the world continue to discover more health benefits of fish oil, this latest study hopes to provide a simple, natural remedy for the depression commonly experienced by heart disease patients.

 

UniSA’s Nutritional Physiology Research Centre is working with the Queen Elizabeth Hospital and the University of Adelaide on the collaborative project, which has been funded by the National Heart Foundation and beyondblue.

 

UniSA researcher Dr Narelle Berry said there was an increasing recognition among health professionals of a strong association between heart disease and depression.

 

“We know that substantial numbers of people with heart disease also become depressed. We also know that having both depression and heart disease can make it harder to recover from both these conditions,” Dr Berry said.

 

“We are trying to evaluate a safe and simple method to help improve both depression and heart health in those with heart disease.”

 

Dr Berry said the study would focus on cardiovascular disease and how its impact on blood vessel function might affect the brain.

 

“When blood vessels are not working properly, you’re not getting adequate blood flow to the brain, so you’re not getting optimal delivery of nutrients to the brain which can adversely affect mood,” she said.

 

“So we’re using fish oil because it’s known to improve blood vessel function, and this might include blood vessel function in the brain.”

 

Dr Berry is looking for volunteers to participate in the study, but volunteers must have had a cardiovascular event (a heart attack) or been diagnosed with heart failure or coronary artery disease, and have also been feeling a bit down, which would be expected.

 

Half of the study participants will receive fish oil capsules, while the other half will receive a placebo capsule of safflower oil. During the trial period of six months, participants will require two visits to both UniSA’s City East Campus and the Queen Elizabeth Hospital for surveys and ultrasounds.

 

“Fish oil has been shown to improve blood vessel function in the peripheral circulation quite convincingly, but this study is the first one that’s actually looked directly into the brain, so we’ll be looking at whether improvements in blood vessel health in the brain improve symptoms of depression,” Dr Berry said.

 

People interesting in volunteering for the study or who would like an information sheet can contact research nurse Lisa Burres at the Queen Elizabeth Hospital on 8222 6305 or Dr Berry on 8302 1817.

http://www.unisa.edu.au/news/2009/231009B.asp

There are a lot of herbs that help blood supply to the brain.

Rosemary and Ginseng are two that come easily to mind.

[lemit]

It's amazing how when we start to look at brain function instead of behavior, all those behavioral "problems" seem to make sense.

 

How many members here have been diagnosed with some kind of behavioral problem or depression or some other "anti-social" behavior, such as Asperger's or Autism? Am I the only one? I have a feeling there might be some other creative people around here whose response to the reality we're all stuck with might be, according to conventional standards, a little skewed.

 

--lemit

 

p.s. I'm not telling how many or which of those I've been diagnosed with beyond the previously mentioned incorrect diagnosis of clinical depression.

[Michaelangelica]

It's amazing how when we start to look at brain function instead of behavior, all those behavioral "problems" seem to make sense.

 

How many members here have been diagnosed with some kind of behavioral problem or depression or some other "anti-social" behavior, such as Asperger's or Autism? Am I the only one? I have a feeling there might be some other creative people around here whose response to the reality we're all stuck with might be, according to conventional standards, a little skewed.

 

--lemit

 

p.s. I'm not telling how many or which of those I've been diagnosed with beyond the previously mentioned incorrect diagnosis of clinical depression.

The human body is such an amazing combination of chemical, electricity water, bacteria and fungi. It is mind-bogglingly-amzing that anything works at all.

I think we underestimate the role of the gut in most things. It is an extremly intelligent "organ system" with more nerves/neurons than the brain. Genetic reactions to food (celiac and variations on this theme) drugs (prescription and not), and nutrients are far more varied than most in the medicine industry want to admit.

 

On asperger's my cousin (female) says that ALL males are 'aspergic'.

PS

How come I got an email from you.?

How did you know my address?

[lemit]

I clicked on your name. When I tried to send a PM to you, it didn't work, so I cut the body of the PM, went back to the dropdown menu under your name and pasted the message into the email option. That worked.

 

I didn't mean to invade your privacy. Sorry if that's what resulted.

 

--lemit