Photons have no time

[Little Bang]

Using my proposed view of a single photon created universe I can explain the accelerating expansion. The first event would have been the creation of protons and electrons, not just in our locality, but out to infinity. This would mean that there is an infinite amount of mass located in all directions away from us. Thus the visible universe would be accelerating toward this infinite mass.

[Millard Alexander Dorsey]

:)

Or is it simply that light only exists in 3-dimensions (according to it's own self)?

 

There has to be some separation of space and time. Light or more specifically the photon is the relation between them.

Hello guys and gals! Had to get on my photonic accelerator and move nowhere real fast. We all seem to examine the distance from A point to .. B point at a rate of c, and e=mc2, as was pointed out, is Albert correct? I have to admit he is partially correct at the least, but incorrect in total concept he ran out of space-time (smile). He proved a lot of things when he up and died, as he thought he would. WOW, did we need a rocket scientist for such a basic occurance and thought proccess? My 95 year old Great-Grand coulda told him, that,the event of his death would come to pass, after we blow up Japan!

My point to "YALL", is; What is the rate of an implodeing photon , a possible example is the infamos black hole. (implode means to BURST inward) and now the QM 4th, (Quantum Mechanics at the 4th), and Synchronicity, (even though the intrapsychic state and the objective event may be synchronous according to clock time and spatially near to each other, the objective event may, in contrary be distant in time-space relation to the intrapsychic state things like telepathy or even Prophets who demonstrate a clear clairvoyance)-space-time start to creep into the the fields.I do understand the person that mentioned one photon that is timeless and don't laugh, omnipresent, omnipotent and can not end or began, have you heard of something or of an Entity descibed like that before, WOW!! Do we argue labels or names of items WE create? Help me on implosion .. I think yall can follow where I am going with this, if not, then: instead of trying to catch up, deal with something that is trying to catch up with you!! How small is a nano second, how many parts make a photon, was or is there an original photon, and did it include all matter in this space-time generation, in this our observable deminsion? I have to say yes photons have time .. is a brick a house or are bricks the basis for a house? Is a house made of bricks, if so how many bricks, remember the carpenter (Potters House .. that's a song), already knows how many bricks..you don't until you count them, but it is still one house.

 

DORSEY

[Millard Alexander Dorsey]

Thanks, Infy. I have a feeling a bunch of people who have no interest in this thread are for some reason trying to hijack it.

 

As to the question posted by one of those people before and after he was talking about non-sense as it would seem.

 

 

Photons do not interact. Waves interact. A photon is simply a way of quantizing the energy of the wave. So in a plasma soup a photon does not collide with another photon, but a wave can interact constructively or destructively with another wave. Does that make things clearer?

Hello !! please explain "a wave", I always thought that a progressive disturbance propagated from point A to point B in a medium or space, i said a medium or space, without progress or advance by point A or B, was a wave. If two like waves (in Water) collide (like means their pitch is the same or very close) they join and make a larger wave. If their pitch is off they will cancle on another! You little or limited conclusion is short because you can only understand a wave. Try a particle reference for a photon, WOW! It makes more since. A wave from A to B would have to travel farther than a particle from A to B, you have added more than a single photon, or are you saying a photon trvels in a wave like motion, hello!, The shotest distance is a straight line and We know light does not bank or turn corners unless as I said it collides with something (another photon, perhaps) at least not my laser.

Nice try ... TRY AGAIN after you listen to the question and do your home work.

 

 

DORSEY

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Photons do not interact. Waves interact. A photon is simply a way of quantizing the energy of the wave. So in a plasma soup a photon does not collide with another photon, but a wave can interact constructively or destructively with another wave. Does that make things clearer?

Assuming one accepts light having a split personality. In McCutcheon's view it doesn't.

Also, I assume you refer to my referencing McCutcheon as hijacking the conversation? Perhaps we should ask Tormod to create alternate threads depending on one's world view?

Maybe the emperor is naked guys.

So much of the discussion sounds like fantasy with each supposition going out further and further on the logical branch. And you guys talk as if this stuff is fact. It isn't. It's supposition. And if you draw a conclusion that has a 50% chance of being correct and you do that 4 times building on the previous supposition, the odds of the final conclusion/s being correct are only 1 in 16. But I think the truth is even worse than 1 in 16 because the clarity of the antecedents gets worse the further out you go - so achieving 50% is really doubtful.

If the intent of this thread is just mental exercise, then I'll shut up because that would be valid in my view. But if you are trying to identify truth, well, that's a whole nother deal.

[cwes99_03]

Actually no, I was not refering to your referencing McCutcheon. To clarify, I was refering to the following comment and others like it that occured earlier.

 

had a chance to die once, during an Asthma attack, being Indian the mustard plaster was not enough (smile) , that's what we used.. ("wrapp in a cloth or better in a guaze, crushed boiled mustard seeds or powder, engulf the chest and front of the neck with the mustard, garlic, onion, and hot sauce if you don't have the peppers; (no this is not a human bueratoe), wait it will turn into a brown brick as hard as a cast), anyway:, in that point of truth, a light which looked more nebula or plasma soup than a sun light, was all over the place .. I was alone .. I did not care about these important communications we all endeavour .. "I know", that it did not matter if I looked south, north, east or west , I was still going to the light without a trail. I love you guys so much , that could only mean I was expanding in all directions at once, as blowing up a ballon .. Yes this therom is true and I was not privy to it , I bet your vippy I will be all over it . THANKS

[ldsoftwaresteve]

Well qwes_99_03, thanks for the clarification.

Sometimes rational discussion is like a lifeline thrown to people who are troubled because the world can get pretty nuts out there and there's a lot of wreckage littering the landscape. So discussions where people are being sane and healthy are like rafts floating on an ocean of lunacy. It doesn't surprise me that folks would want to grab onto the side. It takes them a while to get their eyes to stop rolling around in their heads, however.

Anyway, thanks and I apologize for being so touchy.

[cwes99_03]

No problem. Can you give me a link or two where I can read about mccutcheon's work and how it pertains to this particular case so that I can get more involved in where you would like this thread to go?

[ldsoftwaresteve]

It's http://www.thefinaltheory.com

Also, there's a thread here that discusses it that you might find interesting.

I only brought it up here because I think it applies to the discussion about time. Another thread that applies here is Infinitenow's thread on 'Now'.

 

My son, soon to be a graduate student in Physics at Indiana University, discussed this with me just yesterday. He's a standard theory kind of guy and doesn't believe McCutcheon is right (although I think he'll change his mind - or maybe I will).

We talked about how McCutcheon's idea provides a driver for all physical phenomena and about how time is just an effect perceived by a conscious mind. We tend to think time is a causative factor because it ends up being the only thing we can put into a formula to handle the changes that are being tracked.

All of science deals with observations. And time is only visible by a conscious mind. It is observed but you cannot reach out and touch it like you can with most other things that you observe. It is entirely a mental phenomenon. We observe the 'vapor trail' of change that is constantly taking place. The constancy of that change is more profound than we think. And McCutcheon, in my mind at least, provides the engine for that vapor trail.

So, I guess my butting in here is based on my belief that our understanding of the nature of time is flawed. If it is, we have a blind spot about the nature of existence and it is that blindspot that intrigues the hell out of me.

[cwes99_03]

I have also been commenting on a thread about time you may be interested in

http://hypography.com/forums/philosophy-science/6471-time-measurable-variable.html

[ldsoftwaresteve]

I have also been commenting on a thread about time you may be interested in

http://hypography.com/forums/philosophy-science/6471-time-measurable-variable.html

Thanks. just what I need. Another time discussion to suck away what remains of mine. :hihi: By the way, DoctorDick is one sharp article and I would not be surprised if he gets a Nobel Prize someday. I strongly suspect that his theory of understanding identifies something very important about a great many things, especially time. I only wish I was smart enough to grasp it. I wish those that could would take him seriously.

[HappytheStripper]

I've been trying to read more and more about QM. Last night, I read that photons do not experience time. That a photon travelling through time (relative to an observer in inertial frame) is indistinguishable from an anti-photon travelling backward in time. Strangely, I'm okay with that.

 

However, I'm struggling to understand that a photon released from a star 10 million light years away, from the perspective of something else, will take 10 million light years to arrive, but in it's own frame of reference arrives immediately to all places.

 

Can someone help shed some light ( :eek2: ), and potentially assist me in clearing up mistakes in the above description? It sounds a lot like a photon is InfiniteNow, but I am trying to be objective. :)

 

A photon is quite simply like the lens of a camera .. when clicked .. snaps an image .. and by way of process is turned into a "photo"

 

Simply put .. a photon knows NO time .. it only captures a moment in time .. thus creating a lasting memory of what seems like an infinite now ..

 

Hope this clears up any confusion ..

 

Regards

 

Ashley

[sebbysteiny]

The way that I understand the idea that 'Photons have no time' is not that time slows down until it travels instantaneously (though that is right), but it's that time is undefined at light speed, ie it ceases to exist as a meaningful concept.

 

I read a post saying that 'time can be manipulated', but I think that is wrong.

 

The universe has strict rules. Time slows down as relative motion gets faster until a limit. Nothing will reach that limit other than massless particles which will always travel at that limit. At that limit, concepts of space and time break down entirely. In other words, light speed is quite simply the limit in which the laws of physics in any meaningful sense exists.

[Harry Costas]

Hello

 

This link maybe of interest:

 

Read it through.

Is faster-than-light propagation allowed by the laws of physics?

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/gravity/LR.asp

 

Time and space themselves are simply dimensions (concepts), and cannot be changed by motion, by potential, or by any material entity.

[arkain101]

I've been looking for a way to connect time, Speed of light, Constant of that speed, Restriction of that speed, Mass, Inertia, and gravity. Well, and you name it. Of course this is a hell of a task, and most likely beyond the likes of me to achieve.

 

Here is where I am arriving with time and photons.

 

Time has two options.

 

One,

It is a database that flows out the events we experience now. It contains the information to operate the material or it contains all the actual material that is in our future and in our past and in our now of the entire universe.

 

two,

It is an illusion of a flow created by our own memory. Our existence in the universe is locked into an experience of now. The now has no measurment. It is simply the zero point or infinite point we experience in. The illusion of time flowing is caused by our minds ability to repeat and resinate the now inside the now. The resinated information is memory. If we say to ourselves, I began reading this post about 30 seconds ago. We measure this notion of 'time' having flowed by the data that is STILL in our NOW resinating in our brain.

 

So time is either a contained design held by memory or dimension which holds ALL material, all past all present, all future information and data.

Or, it is only a perception we inevitably create via the memory resination of constant creation.

 

 

I do have to agree that I am more for the constant creation concept more than a giant memory bank. Due to the possibility that constant creation would consist of a universal constant value. The constant creation has in it a few versions of where you can be. But one movement in one always adjusts another. It would like be being inside the center of a circle. Here we are centered and considered at rest. If we go north in the circle we change the distance at every other possible angle and we manipulate our velocity at each angle completely differently.

In this similar way, When we accelerate a mass, we move the mass through 3d space which looks simple enough, but equal and opposite things being to occur.

 

-We gain it mass

-we gain it energy

-we slow down its time

-we speed up other time

-we reduce energy behind it via doppler

-we increase energy infront of it via doppler

-we dilate the space around it

-what else..

 

So as we bend or stress our 'posistion' in this unified constant each and everything else has to give this or that to maintain equal balance in the constant creation.

 

So establishing how time can work. We can begin using those two possibilities with "Photons have no time".

I do not think it is a question of whether they have time or not. But rather what they do. They do not change amongst themselves.

 

Like a movng object they prefer to travel in a strait line at the same velocity untill disturbed by some kind of outside force.

 

Matter on the other hand changes on its own. It goes through energy states, mass changes, and can disipate into energy.

 

If we look at the unity between things again, the birth of a photon requires the trade off of a change in an peice of matter (an atom). Then it will travel at the velocity of C according to all observation frames (thus appear to have the ability to be many places at once). The trade off for its ability to be in many assumed velocities measurements is that it will change in energy value, and frequency according to those measurements (like distance/time).

 

(Keep in mind however that time is completely relative to each observer is no more than a resination of the same thing over and over, in respect to these thoughts).

 

So in the birth of a photon mass is traded for energy. This energy acts that it is located in the freedom zone of the constant of creation. It can be anywhere anyone needs it to be, and in many different forms.

 

In fact, if you were to imagine -in a thought experiemnt- yourself in a thousand different observations frames looking at one particular object it would be in each of those frames differently. (of couse I am referig to relativity)

 

A photon acts as a version of constant creation that appears to have gone to one end of the scale, and in consequence of this, it is affected by all the other versions of trade offs.

 

If the photon is something that assumes its posistion on the outside of the circle (in that example) it will experience change at the highest level of magnitude than in any other posistion of the circle when compared to other changes inside that circle.

 

Meaning, it will assume the most noticeable change in respect to the change of thing.

[arkain101]

I thought I would also provide this link.

 

The inverse square law.

 

It is interesting just how many details and phenomina in this universe are consistent with squaring. Something may run deep in this.

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse_square_law

[TheFaithfulStone]

Read it through.

Is faster-than-light propagation allowed by the laws of physics?

http://metaresearch.org/cosmology/gravity/

 

Uhh... Tom Van Flandern alert.

 

TFS

[arkain101]

I read Einstien was hesitant when he was discovering E=MC^2.

 

Since C was supposed to be the limit it didnt make sense to have it used as anything higher than itself.