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Atheism and Faith


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He he. I knew someone would say this. :)   Using empirical knowledge I cannot disprove a God. I do, however, not accept that I am by logic required to *believe* that something *does not exist*.   Ther

Here Boersun is merely showing that if everything has a cause then so must God. Therefore your arguement that everything must have a cause negates the very idea of God.

This just in:   http://www.macon.com/mld/macon/living/religion/15254298.htm?source=rss&channel=macon_religion halleluja!:doh:

I’m an agnostic / Buddhist. I don’t believe in the things that were written in religious books. There is no evidence to prove or disprove the existence of a god. My interpretation of god is a little different than a Christian’s or a Muslim’s definition of god. God is an imaginary omnipotent friend in the sky for most people. I think humanity is god because we created the concept of god. The universe is god because we are a part of it. My definition of god could also be described as a life form or entity that is in control of its reality. (Atoms, molecules, subatomic particles, Ect.) I believe that it is possible for a group of life forms to evolve into some kind of super intelligent being that is capable of controlling all of the atoms in the space in which it exist. (The universe)

 

One way to think about what I just wrote is to imagine that you are the god of the trillions of cells in your body. Your motor cortex allows you to make voluntary movements. Medical science allows us to have more control of the chemical reactions in our bodies. Nanotechnology will give us even more control of our bodies is the coming decades.

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Agnostic: someone who doesn't know if there is a god or not

 

Atheist: someone who claims their is no god

 

There is a large gray area between the two.

I once heard a science fiction writer state "An agnostic is an cowardly atheist" :D

 

An Agnostic is someone who does not make claims, (God exists or God does not exist), without evidence to back them up.

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How can someone claim to say theres no God, when they can't prove it. Ok, those who believe can't prove it nor can those who don't believe can't prove it, but I have often heard a self-proclaimed atheist say " There is no such thing as a God, it's impossible to have a God ", this is unreasonable argument and logic, making an unreasonable judgement, I haven't read all of the thread due to it's length but when I read the one with the marbles I thought it was ridiculous.

 

Faith is not about decisions to believe or not, the word believe should not be used. People are informed of Religion from the day they grew up, it's documented in some religions. If you chose not to have faith in a religion, you have made a decision not to have faith in a religion. You therefore cannot claim there is no God, you don't know if it's there or not, it's going to be impossible to find out, impossible. Logically and reasonably you cannot claim this if it can't be proved.

 

I'm basing this on the fact that Zythryn said that's what it meant. An Agnostic should be what an atheist is. And as Zythryn puts it " Someone who doesn't know if there is a God or not ", this is a reasonable statement and can be understood by it's believers. Another example to show that Atheists cannot say there is no God is to take the Big Bang for instance. If I was to say there was no Dog involved in the creation of the Universe, that's unreasonable. As stupid as it sounds it could be true, it could also be false, it's not provable, so how can I claim there is no Dog that created the Universe?

 

If I'm right stating this, then the comparison between this and Atheism is the same, you cannot claim what that there is no God, I know of many people who claim to be atheists and claim the very same thing " There is no God ". However, you can claim " I don't have faith due to the lack of proof and the lack of evidence going to be ever found ", saying this does not come to a conclusion and gives a reasonable response to the question of faith or not.

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Prolu2007: Your argument demands that everything that can be conceived be considered a viable possibility, nothing can be denied. The contradictions that arise from such a view, if presented as reality, make communication impossible. God is a matter of personal belief, not of useful reality. In discussions of personal belief, denial of god is as valid as any other claim.

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I don't believe in God, but I love the idea. That life has some great meaning. That everything we do is for a higher purpose.

 

Of course I love my idea of God, not the twat in the bible.

 

If the God spoke of in the bible is the one true creator of the universe, then, well, he can kiss my ***.

 

I don't think it's illogical that there is a god, because life is illogical, the existence of the universe is beyond my comprehension.

 

What I find illogical is failing to find the truth and then just believing what you were looking for anyway(faith).

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If you want to believe "that life has some great meaning. That everything we do is for a higher purpose", there's no need to resort to imaginary entities. For example, if you believe that humans are put on Earth and farmed by bacteria as a food crop, you have pretty much the same thing, human life is part of a greater plan that's beyond human control, plus, in addition to being based on known entities, this belief has the advantage of being more or less accurate.

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Prolu2007: Your argument demands that everything that can be conceived be considered a viable possibility, nothing can be denied. The contradictions that arise from such a view, if presented as reality, make communication impossible. God is a matter of personal belief, not of useful reality. In discussions of personal belief, denial of god is as valid as any other claim.

 

My argument demands that people use viable claims but personal belief.

It claims that people have to make a reasonable judgement to make a reasonable belief. It doesn't force ideas that people must follow my claims, however, it does claim that views of such things be taken realistically and not to general excuse.

 

" God is a matter of personal belief ", this is my logic exactly. I say this in conjuction with my initial claim. Instead of denial of God as you put it, it's rather judgement of God.

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... you cannot claim what that there is no God, I know of many people who claim to be atheists and claim the very same thing " There is no God ". However, you can claim " I don't have faith due to the lack of proof and the lack of evidence going to be ever found ", saying this does not come to a conclusion and gives a reasonable response to the question of faith or not.

 

So by this logic, you also would find anyone's statement "there is a god" also illogical, but that they could claim "I have faith that there is a god"?

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Prolu2007: God is not known to exist, there is no evidence directly indicating the existence of god, there is no sound argument based on things known to exist that supports the contention of god, as a hypothetical object god is ineffective and unnecessary.

We can rank the relative reality of objects as follows:

1) known

2) theoretical

3) hypothetical

4) imaginary

Catagory 1 contains objects that can be demonstrated and that are common to all people, regardless of those people's desires, beliefs, etc. Catagories 2 and 3 contain objects that are disputable to greater or lesser degree. Catagory 4 contains objects that are defined and exist within the imagination of individual people, god is in this catagory. Whether or not any particular catagory 4 object does actually exist but is merely unknown, unsupported by evidence or logic and unnecessary, is beside the point, as anything that can be conceived can be believed, a reality including catagory 4 objects would be a random and contradictory mess. Human beings are social animals and need to be able to communicate, effective communication is impossible if individuals insist that their personal realities are common realities, accordingly, any claim that a personal belief is common reality, is by nature an anti-social act.

Naturally, a person is free to hold any personal belief, and as these beliefs are irrelevant to common reality, there is no reason or requirement for such beliefs to be justified.

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So by this logic, you also would find anyone's statement "there is a god" also illogical, but that they could claim "I have faith that there is a god"?

 

People believe there is a God and have faith in that God, that's Ok.

People can believe there is no God and have no faith, that's Ok.

People can't say there is or there isn't a God for certainty. I remember a Catholic Priest say once on television " I don't know if there's a God, but I have faith and hope that their is one according to the Word of God ". We live in a reality and that's the reality, no point fooling around. The underlying fact under all the rubble of religion, is that nothing is a certainty, can't be proved, only hoped, it's that hope that makes people believe and have faith in a God, but not many that I know say " There is a God ", they say " I believe there is a God ", two completely different sentences of which the later one makes justifiable and realistic sense.

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