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Perpetual motion


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BGal, you are correct about running into a brick wall, I've tried as well. One must remember that the world revolves around politics, greed and the almighty TAXES. When we do master free energy, we also threaten our country's economic engine.
Um, actually, greed is the very thing that could push this thing forward! If you do have such a device it would be worth unbelievable amounts of money. I won't question the notion that the oil companies wouldn't like it, but there are even more companies that would *love* to find something like this. GE makes aircraft engines. The number one request *by far*from their customers is better fuel mileage. Can you imagine how many gazillions of dollars they'd make if they went with Boeing to the world and said: "those idiots at Airbus are doomed: we have an aircraft engine that requires *half* the fuel because we've incorporated this perpetual motion supermagnet thingy." While you may think that scientists would laugh this off, if tests showed that it actually got double the fuel mileage, you know what? NO ONE WOULD CARE! The almighty dollar trumps science any day! In fact it would be solid proof that the theory was wrong, and at least half the scientific community would rush to be the first to publish papers backing it up!
One story I will tell knowing it to be true, I know the man who invented a new concept refrigorator engine. ...This man brought the refrigoration device before the energy commission, which must be done for all appliances, prior to sales. The energy commision said that it was very nice, however he could not sell it in the USA because it did not use enough energy....
First, can you give us a reference on this? Second, energy commisions do not pass judgement on refrigerators. They might if you were trying to get an okay for a government program, but the only thing you need to sell an appliance in the US is insurance, and the insurance company will probably want you to get a certificate from Underwriters Labs to show that it won't cause a fire.
It would'nt surprise me if there are Government officials that monitor this siite for potential threats to the economic engine.....
Have they knocked on your door? What agency are they from? Do they wear RayBans and carry funky looking pens? Sorry for my cynicism, but I've found the government to be more like the Keystone Cops or the Gang-That-Couldn't-Shoot-Straight than Men-In-Black or the Matrix guys...Its *hard* to keep secrets, as Richard Nixon and a host of other "most powerful men in the world" have found out....

 

Cheers,

Buffy

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Laws of thermodynamics states that matter has energy and it cannot be created or destroyed but no where does it say that you cannot "use" its energy for long periods.

 

The second law of thermodynamics does say that for every reaction/process that occurs in an isolated system, the total usable energy in the system decreases. Not only can you not win, you can't break even!

 

BGal: All I can say is that there are 2 laws of thermodynamics law 1 and law 2 lets wait and see who discovers law 3.

 

What???? There are 4 laws of thermodynamics. Think it's time you picked up a physics book.

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  • 1 month later...

Perpetual motion has already been achieved by nature.

 

 

This is not a true statement according to science, nature will also see it's own end :)

My question is, what is forever? Is it a human lifetime or the lifetime of our universe, our galaxy, our sun, the Earth........So to say nature creates purpetual motion would be incorrect, would it not. If a magnetic PMM was created and would continue to go until the magnets died, is that not the same purpetual motion in nature ending with the demise of our solar system, universe...Well you get the idea.

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Um, actually, greed is the very thing that could push this thing forward!...

 

Very long quite edited by Tormod - please keep quotes short.

...

Have they knocked on your door? What agency are they from? Do they wear RayBans and carry funky looking pens? Sorry for my cynicism, but I've found the government to be more like the Keystone Cops or the Gang-That-Couldn't-Shoot-Straight than Men-In-Black or the Matrix guys...Its *hard* to keep secrets, as Richard Nixon and a host of other "most powerful men in the world" have found out....

 

Cheers,

Buffy

 

Maybe what you get from the goverment is what they want you to.....

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It's not at all a perpetual motion machine. If you have bearings, then you have continual friction. If you have continual friction, then you have continual energy loss in your system. If you have continual energy loss in your system, then you must continually put energy into the system to keep it working.

 

As far as creating "free" enegy using gravity, have you ever heard of a hydroelectric power plant?

 

I think the word perpetual should be redefined, our world will not go on forever, so to say perpetual is to use a double standard. You cannot have an engine that will run forever in a world that is coming to an end.....

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Long quote edited by Tormod

 

But neither my belief nor dissbelief changes the reality that if it really is possible; it won't be discovered by those who don't believe it can be.

 

Do not be disbanded by the laws of physics, they'll be revised in the next edition...In short, Science has been wrong before!

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Perpetual motion has already been achieved by nature.

 

 

This is not a true statement according to science, nature will also see it's own end :)

My question is, what is forever? Is it a human lifetime or the lifetime of our universe, our galaxy, our sun, the Earth........So to say nature creates purpetual motion would be incorrect, would it not. If a magnetic PMM was created and would continue to go until the magnets died, is that not the same purpetual motion in nature ending with the demise of our solar system, universe...Well you get the idea.

 

Where does science show or prove that there will ever be an end to everything? Newton's law of motion says that a body in motion will stay in motion until acted on by an external force. That is perpetual motion.

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Where does science show or prove that there will ever be an end to everything? Newton's law of motion says that a body in motion will stay in motion until acted on by an external force. That is perpetual motion.

Are you saying evolution and thermodynamics are in conflict? I am just trying to understand the different ideas behind these theories. I am not a physics student, I am just interested in various theories. Thanks, Joe.

 

I know these things have been discussed before, but there are so many conflicts, history, religion, physics, evolution, darwinism.....humm - interesting.

 

Also, concerning the universe, body in motion, there are no external forces acting apon it???

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Are you saying evolution and thermodynamics are in conflict? I am just trying to understand the different ideas behind these theories. I am not a physics student, I am just interested in various theories. Thanks, Joe.

 

Just a friendly notice - please try to keep this thread on topic.

 

Also, concerning the universe, body in motion, there are no external forces acting apon it???

 

We don't know that a) the universe is a body in motion, nor that :) no external forces act upon it.

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Are you saying evolution and thermodynamics are in conflict? I am just trying to understand the different ideas behind these theories. I am not a physics student, I am just interested in various theories. Thanks, Joe.

 

I know these things have been discussed before, but there are so many conflicts, history, religion, physics, evolution, darwinism.....humm - interesting.

 

Also, concerning the universe, body in motion, there are no external forces acting apon it???

Huh? What has evolution got to do with the motion of bodies in space or the universe as we know it coming to an end? So far the topic of evolution pertains only to life on this planet. It may apply on other planets when we locate other planets with life.

 

Thermodynamics are not violated by Newton's law of motion. In theory, you could propel a body through space and it would continue forever unless some external force stopped it. That too has nothing to do with everything coming to an end, especially the universe itself.

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Huh? What has evolution got to do with the motion of bodies in space or the universe as we know it coming to an end? So far the topic of evolution pertains only to life on this planet.

 

Sorry, I would think evolution would be included in space and the universe. If evolution is used on our planet, for it to mean anything it has to be used on the other planets in our solar system, otherwise you remove a piece of the perpetual motion machine in a whole. As I understand it evolution doesn't just pertain to life. The same theories used for evolution on our planet has to be used in conjunction with relativity etc.. Otherwise the theories conflict or earth cannot be included.

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Thermodynamics are not violated by Newton's law of motion. In theory, you could propel a body through space and it would continue forever unless some external force stopped it. That too has nothing to do with everything coming to an end, especially the universe itself.

 

I know this is getting off the topic, but, it is very interesting. I guess I will look for a thread about this type of topic. I have to know though. Are we saying the bodies now moving in the vaccuum of space are not being acted upon? they just move in the direction they are going because of the force that started them; Earth, moon, etc...I understand the theory, but I find it kinda old....If you did set an object in motion in space and by some odd chance the universe has no beginning or end and the object didn't run into some force, yes it may go on forever, but that is rediculous. Newton's theories were tested on Earth the same place the theory of evolution is being tested.

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Sorry, I would think evolution would be included in space and the universe. If evolution is used on our planet, for it to mean anything it has to be used on the other planets in our solar system, otherwise you remove a piece of the perpetual motion machine in a whole. As I understand it evolution doesn't just pertain to life. The same theories used for evolution on our planet has to be used in conjunction with relativity etc.. Otherwise the theories conflict or earth cannot be included.

All right, include evolution. Now tell us how the evolution of life on Earth or any other planet means that everything will eventually come to an end.

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I would like to continue this, but I think I need to move this topic because I have been told not to get off topic. IE; Perpetual motion...Where should this topic go? I guess I need to check the different threads.

 

Perpetual motion belongs in this thread. The concept of evolution does not. So if you want to fuse the two I suggest you start a thread in the philosophy forum, perhaps. The we can find out if another forum might be more useful later.

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We don't know that a) the universe is a body in motion, nor that :eek: no external forces act upon it.

 

Unless one counts internal expansion as motion itself. The external force question and external motion would be something more in line with modern Brane theory and even here it would be gravity itself acting interdimensionally as the external force with movement within hyperspace supplying the other perspective.

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