Uncle Martin Posted August 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 Some very imformative replies and links, thanks to all. My concept is slightly different, so I'll just have to build it, sell the patent rights for a trillion dollars and serve up some humble pie to all of you skeptics at the Hypography convention. Phew,...I'd better get busy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 serve up some humble pie to all of you skeptics at the Hypography convention Can I take this to mean that you are considering joining us? I was beginning to wonder, as I don't recall seeing your input anywhere... I know I'd love it if at LEAST the moderators could all make it, with their better halves. And Yvonne has to come, with Tormod. Anyhow, I know that's for another thread, just wanted to ask if you're joining us...??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted August 11, 2004 Report Share Posted August 11, 2004 *off topic* Well, I for sure would love to hear Unc's science lecture on "The history of cigar band making" with samples of the original contents. */off topic* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted August 22, 2004 Report Share Posted August 22, 2004 Originally posted by: Uncle MartinSome very imformative replies and links, thanks to all. My concept is slightly different, so I'll just have to build it, sell the patent rights for a trillion dollars and serve up some humble pie to all of you skeptics at the Hypography convention. Phew,...I'd better get busy. You recently revealed you have a cook for a son. Better learn some tricks of the trade before next year, pal! The kitchen's all yours. Even if you don't make it with your trillion dollar patent. If it works, I want in on it of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo Posted September 6, 2004 Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 just wondering: how are things going with your perpetuum mobile?(also i was wondering what your idea exactly was; but you don't seem eager to tell us )Bo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Martin Posted September 6, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 6, 2004 I think perpetuum IMmobile may be a better term. The further I get with the design stage the less likely the concept appears. If I should continue and build it, I will post a picture. I would prefer to keep the design private for now,.... just in case it does work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishEyes Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 oooooooh, Unc... you and your secrets... I can't wait to meet you to see if you have fog and spiders hanging off your back to go with the air of mystery that you drape yourself in... Seriously though, I can hardly wait to see what you're cooking up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormod Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 It's probably a neverending cigar band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted September 7, 2004 Report Share Posted September 7, 2004 Aren't they all? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thoughts Posted September 23, 2004 Report Share Posted September 23, 2004 Here is a thought. A disk with tracks around the edge where a ball can roll around the disk. Have the disk set on two pivits one on each underside of the disk so the disk can rock slightly back and forth. Have two magnets on the underside of each side of the disk and two magnets in oposing force on the table the disk is mounted to. This way if you rocked the disk slightly with your hand it would return to balance as the magnets forced it to. Then set the ball rolling on the track. It would roll to a side and tilt it slightly then the magnetic force would try to push the disk back in balance giving the ball a little push then it rolls to the other side and repeats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Martin Posted September 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Welcome to our forum Thoughts, Darned good user name. These are some good ideas that you bring to the table,... I will consider them in depth. Just in case you have not read the entire thread,... it has been pointed out that perpetual motion is not physically possible,... and the use of "permanent" magnets does not truly qualify. I now view the magnets more as a magnetic battery,..... only storing energy. I have not given up on the remote possibility of proving everyone wrong,..... but I have changed my approach. I am very pleased to have some new "thoughts" on the subject. Thanks for joining in the discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted September 24, 2004 Report Share Posted September 24, 2004 Hi Thoughts, welcome to our community. I hope you will share more of your thoughts with us. Let me see if I can help evaluate your idea here. Originally posted by: thoughts...Then set the ball rolling on the track. It would roll to a side and tilt it slightly then the magnetic force would try to push the disk back in balance giving the ball a little push then it rolls to the other side and repeats.First, as Unc has mentioned, in terms of "perpetual" magnets are temporary storage devices. They consist of materials in which the magnetic domains of the molecules are aligned. The magnetic domains of these molecules will tend to "un-align" themselves over time. But the biggest problem I see is with the assumption that the balance between the weight of the ball and the strength of the magnets is variable. If the ball is heavier than the magentic repulsion, then it will push the disk below the level balance point on one side and the ball will find a point of rest. If the weight of the ball is less than the magnetic repulsion then the disk will not drop below level and the ball will circle until it loses momentum to friction. Your design would be the same if springs replaced the magnets. The interaction would be identical. What you are hoping for is a system that will give a "kick" to the ball's momentum by allowing a greater deformation of the system's balance (drop below level) than the ball can achieve itself and/ or the magnets will provide more after the fact repulsive force than initial repulsive force. At best your system will work like any resonant system. With a good ratio between the ball's mass and the magnetic system's strength you will create an oscillation for the system which will allow for efficient motion of the system. But as with any resonant system, internal resistances (friction the ball and disc encounters ...) will slowely wind the system down. And an external energy source will be required occasionally to replace the lost energy. These exercises are fun and always good mental exercise. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAKER Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Perpetual Motion is a misnomer. The people who are seeking such a thing in the real world are after something that can deliver usefull energy in a legitimate and tangible way. We can all see that of course useable fuel of every kind will will eventually be used up as far as we mere mortals are concerned if the universe continues in it's present condition long enough; and assuming the laws of thermodynamics are as immutable as the scientific guru's of our generation have staked their reputations on they're being. But are there indeed sources of useable energy that we simply have not discvered?- yet. Perpetual motion does of course exist as is evident in everything from the neuclear to the planetary orbits, and we are reaping the benefits in more ways than most people ever consider - and will cotinue to enjoy them as long as the universe continues in it's present condition which is far from eternally perpetual. What the seekers of perpetual motion want to find is something that can supply useable energy to power all of our human toys that will not be exhausted for as long as we are here (without turning our front yard into a radioactive wasteland). Are magnets the answer? BEAKER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freethinker Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Originally posted by: BEAKERPerpetual Motion is a misnomer.Hi Beaker. Welcome. Yes I agree that to some extent "Perpetual" Motion is a misnomer. Perhaps because of the word "Perpetual" in there. I doubt we could consider anything to be forever. The people who are seeking such a thing in the real world are after something that can deliver usefull energy in a legitimate and tangible way.I would add that what is being looked for would also include getting as much, if not more, energy out as energy in. Perpetual motion does of course exist as is evident in everything from the neuclear to the planetary orbits,All of these have well established finite time limits. nuclear is based on decay and half lives, or with Fusion, while an extreme amount of energy seems to be available with little to no "pollution", there is still a finite resource, extremely large, but finite. Planeary orbits are always in decay. It's just that the relative time frame for these things is well beyond human existence. What the seekers of perpetual motion want to find is something that can supply useable energy to power all of our human toys that will not be exhausted for as long as we are here (without turning our front yard into a radioactive wasteland).There are nights that a good glow from my front yard would help me find which is my driveway! :-) But yes, the desire is to power our toys cheaply and cleanly. Unless you make your money from the energy industry. Which is why the research funding is not there. Those in the best place to research new, far less costly energy sources, are least interested in doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAKER Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Hey Freethinker. You're absolutey right. I's a shame to think about those poor souls in bondage to their own interests to the extent that it would silence such a monumental discovery as perpetual motion if it were to be found. (As perpetual as it might be in light of the ever decaying nature of everthing). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAKER Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 By the way Freethinker, Thank you for the "Welcome". This is quite a well designed and easy to navigate website, with a lot of good mental chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain_90 Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Hello Ladies and Gentlemen; I find this thread, Perpetual motion , very interesting. Whether motion is activated by magnets, gravity or by other means, I do strongly believe that some day soon a device will be made , if it has'nt already , that WORKS! Yes, yes, I know, it means that the first two laws have to be broken, or at least altered. I'm a firm believer that laws , which are too stiff, need to be broken, or at least changed to fit the situation. Of one thing I have learned over the years,,,,,,, Things are not always black and white,,,,,,,,,, there's a lot of grey in between. For those who do believe,,,, I say don't give up. Whatever man can imagine, IS possible. obviosly your cup is half full. For those of you who don't believe,,,,,,, you fall into the skeptic catagory, cup half empty, and you might want to remember, that when flight for man was first proposed, many very well educated and profesional people said it could'nt be done. For those of you who say never, impossible,,,,,,, I say ,you're gona eat your own shorts. I am currently working on a project which I believe will work. First was the concept and a lot of doodling on paper. Then the mathematics, Then the blueprint. OK< Looks good so far, Right? Well there were questions that I could'nt get from a phisics book, so I decided to make key parts and use weigh scales and torque wrenches to confirm my answers. Now I have no choise but to build the first prototype, or I will never know. As you can tell, I'm not giving too much information right now, but can you blame me??? When the time is right, I will, but in the mean time, don't dispare with your own projects, and have a good day :Alien: :Alien: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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