Perpetual motion

[arkain101]

mechanic,

 

I am not sure of your design but here is some tips from my own experimental engines.

If you are using electric coil magenetics, it will require nearly the energy to develope the energy to turn the engine. This means even if you get it operating, the drag will cause the engine to be nearly disfunctional, regardless of your gearings and such.

 

Secondly, the most efficient setup for an electrical/magnetic engine so far of my knowledge is a turbine action design. This means a spinning motor. They have very low friction, various rpm range, and the allouance for close contact magnetic force at all times, and not to mention perfect mass balance and continious direction of mass. Although I see how you can create such a design in a v8 engine setup where each cylender is a coil like magnet that sucks the piston both up and down by switching of current direction. The main problem here is going to be oil drag , and the crank friction. However I see how it could be a rather interesting idea to play around with because on an electric circular motor there is a push and pull every 1/8th of a turn or so depending on the amount of magnets in the engine, where as with a long stroke magnetic piston you could create little loss in magnetic drag.

I am curious to see what your up to and I have alot of experience and ideas with your simlar stuff. I have developed a self propelled vehicle design and am trying to raise money to patent it. I dont call it 100% efficient but it is capable to have efficiency so close that it is very easy to make up for what is lost through free energy sources.

The thing is though, they are now making some newer technologies that are very impressive. Such as, a battery about the size and weight of a vcr which can charge fully in 5mins and power a small car 120km!! its going to be a big part of our future.

[musicalmechanic]

Sounds very interesting. Are you sticking with the traditional connecting rods and crankshaft? Is there any significance to the configuration of the engine in regard to the interaction of the magnets? (inline 4, v4, opposed 4) What is the significance of the ceramic cylinders? And what is customized about the pistons?

 

You have me curious.

 

Bill

I'm kinda sticking with the traditional engine, in a sense. I know it's vague, but the concept is still there. There will be pistons, connecting rods, crankshaft, and cylinders. The modification involves the size of the pistons in relation to the stroke, modification to the cylinders (ceramic isn't magnetic and is easy to machine), and severe modification to the head.

 

As far as why I am picking a 4 cylinder engine, it has to do with the fact that having a piston every 90 degrees makes the math easy while still accomplishing what I want. I could use a 6 cylinder engine, but that would be way too large.

 

There is some minor customization as far as the pistons go, but I'm really leary about getting into the hardcore specifics of what I want to do, at least online.

 

If this is all done at some expense you might try it first on a small RC plane engine. If it works there you could scale it up. I think you'll find it doesn't though. Many magnet driven engines have been tried before, none have succeeded thus far.

 

I don't believe they make 4 cylinder RC plane engines. If so, the guy at the hobbyshop owes me lunch.

 

mechanic,

 

I am not sure of your design but here is some tips from my own experimental engines.

If you are using electric coil magenetics, it will require nearly the energy to develope the energy to turn the engine. This means even if you get it operating, the drag will cause the engine to be nearly disfunctional, regardless of your gearings and such.

 

Secondly, the most efficient setup for an electrical/magnetic engine so far of my knowledge is a turbine action design. This means a spinning motor. They have very low friction, various rpm range, and the allouance for close contact magnetic force at all times, and not to mention perfect mass balance and continious direction of mass. Although I see how you can create such a design in a v8 engine setup where each cylender is a coil like magnet that sucks the piston both up and down by switching of current direction. The main problem here is going to be oil drag , and the crank friction. However I see how it could be a rather interesting idea to play around with because on an electric circular motor there is a push and pull every 1/8th of a turn or so depending on the amount of magnets in the engine, where as with a long stroke magnetic piston you could create little loss in magnetic drag.

I am curious to see what your up to and I have alot of experience and ideas with your simlar stuff. I have developed a self propelled vehicle design and am trying to raise money to patent it. I dont call it 100% efficient but it is capable to have efficiency so close that it is very easy to make up for what is lost through free energy sources.

The thing is though, they are now making some newer technologies that are very impressive. Such as, a battery about the size and weight of a vcr which can charge fully in 5mins and power a small car 120km!! its going to be a big part of our future.

 

 

Man, I like some of your ideas, but I'm trying to stay away from using an outside source of fuel, and utilizing electrical current fits that mold. I've thought about the permanent magnet/ electro-magnet setup, and always come to the same conclusion, which is that they seem like they would be too heavy, and would consume more energy than is worth it. The nice thing about an electro-magnet setup would be the fact that you could fluctuate the RPM depending on how strong you made the current in the magnets, and how fast you pulsed the current.

 

Plus, this concept was already patented. As far as I can tell, what I want to do isn't.

 

What I'm trying to accomplish is a magnetic engine that will run at a set RPM until the magnets loose their strength. Not only that, but I think most small engines could be modified. I'd like to market conversion kits for them, if possible.

 

The concept of this came to me as my mother complained about her $380 heating bill. She's on disability, and only takes home $1,000 a month.

 

I thought I might be able to design a way for her to get heat more efficiently, so I started tinkering around with some ideas. I think I can design an engine that would power a generator which powers a small heating unit, or possibly several. The pistons and the head might need changing every once and a while, but the cost will be negligable compaired to what she has saved in heat.

 

So, what I'm trying to create is a stand-by generator that powers two 120V outlets. I have the power inverter, and I want to set up a 12V system because altenators and generators are pretty common in the 12V respect.

 

Sorry if I've ranted too much. Any input is appreciated.

 

Jose'

[arkain101]

cool, everthything is worth a try when inspired.

 

I sure would like to hear more about the details, but good luck of course.

[arkain101]

I thought of quite the setup for an electric engine/generator that has zero hic-ups in rotation. A pure static force of torque with varying power. I will have to look up more about magnetics before I ever got carried away, I think it might just turn into magnet and sit there lol.

[musicalmechanic]

I thought of quite the setup for an electric engine/generator that has zero hic-ups in rotation. A pure static force of torque with varying power. I will have to look up more about magnetics before I ever got carried away, I think it might just turn into magnet and sit there lol.

 

Heh, lemme know if I can help with any of that research, if you choose to pursue it. I've had it up to my ears in magnets in the past several weeks. Right now I'm trying to find out what would be a good very thin magnetic shield.

 

BTW, just for kicks I'll link to the site where I purchased several of my magnets. I think I'm gonna order some smaller ones just to tinker around with.

 

I got 10 of these....

http://www.wondermagnets.com/cgi-bin/edatcat/WMSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=0035

 

And 10 of these...

http://www.wondermagnets.com/cgi-bin/edatcat/WMSstore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=0044

 

It's nifty stuff, but they can't be heated above 250 and are very brittle. I'd love to get larger ones, but my wife is ready to kill me for the ones I have now...

 

Jose'

[arkain101]

haha i hear ya there dude.

 

well I am trying to figure out some more about coils.. seems like the circular field around a coil isnt actually spinning like the right hand rule mentions.. lol there I go again questioning current science lol

[musicalmechanic]

haha i hear ya there dude.

 

well I am trying to figure out some more about coils.. seems like the circular field around a coil isnt actually spinning like the right hand rule mentions.. lol there I go again questioning current science lol

 

Heh, I wish I knew a bit more in the way of theory with magnets. I've always been taught the right-hand rule.

 

I do have a question for anyone who thinks they can tackle it. Neodymium is a metal, therefore it goes through half-lives just like every substance known to man, at least this is my current understanding.

 

Now that's said, I'd like to find out if a substances half-life is affected by stresses you might put that substance through.

 

For example, say the half-life of Neodymium is 25 years, when it is sitting still. Does that get reduced if it is constantly pushing and pulling against a substance, or does its magnetic strength stay the same regardless of outside stresses?

[Geronimo]

Hi, im back now. Long time this threat has been updated and it seems it lives again :hihi:

 

For example, say the half-life of Neodymium is 25 years, when it is sitting still. Does that get reduced if it is constantly pushing and pulling against a substance, or does its magnetic strength stay the same regardless of outside stresses?

 

Neodymium magnets are much stronger than usual ferit magnets but they are constantly loosing their force. If you say that they have live for 25 years you can say that they will start loosing force in 2/3 of their lives to zero at 25 years. But without any use of their force. Look at some diagrams from your seller.

 

Any magnet if is in oposition force (two magnets are against each other, they are pusshing each other) are demagneting. It is as fast as neodymium magnets loose all their power in a week and ferit magnets in a few months (is forces are equal).

 

If magnet pull something he will loose his force almost as standalone magnet.

 

Hope this help you.

[musicalmechanic]

Neodymium magnets are much stronger than usual ferit magnets but they are constantly loosing their force. If you say that they have live for 25 years you can say that they will start loosing force in 2/3 of their lives to zero at 25 years. But without any use of their force. Look at some diagrams from your seller.

 

Any magnet if is in oposition force (two magnets are against each other, they are pusshing each other) are demagneting. It is as fast as neodymium magnets loose all their power in a week and ferit magnets in a few months (is forces are equal).

 

If magnet pull something he will loose his force almost as standalone magnet.

 

Hope this help you.

 

You say that two magnets in opposition will de-magnetize each other, which I understand, but will two magnets which are opposite polarity (meaning they are attracted to each other) demagnetize also?

 

And by the way, welcome back.

[Geronimo]

You say that two magnets in opposition will de-magnetize each other, which I understand, but will two magnets which are opposite polarity (meaning they are attracted to each other) demagnetize also?

 

Hi, thank you :hihi: .

 

No, if you put two magnets in a pulling force, as you wrote (one magnet pull other magnet) then they are not demahneting. They livetime period will little bit increase.

[musicalmechanic]

Hi, thank you :hihi: .

 

No, if you put two magnets in a pulling force, as you wrote (one magnet pull other magnet) then they are not demahneting. They livetime period will little bit increase.

 

OK, one last question. Is it only if two magnets are the same polarity constantly that they will magnetize? What if it was altenated, meaning half the time it was same polarity and half the time the opposite polarity?

[Geronimo]

OK, one last question. Is it only if two magnets are the same polarity constantly that they will magnetize? What if it was altenated, meaning half the time it was same polarity and half the time the opposite polarity?

 

They will never magnetize each other. When building magnets it goes like this. You take some ferit material or any other (neodym etc...) and put the material to strong polarised field. Then material will start to work as polarised usual magned. The field is 100x and more stronger then force of magnet itself after magnetization.

 

If you take two magnets and put them that they are pulling each other good. Outgoing force will be stronger than force of one magnet. If you then put them into opposition then they will sart demagnetize very fast. If you then turn then back in pulling state, they will be much weaker than at the first time. And this will continue until they will have no force.

 

You can try this with two usual magnets. Buy or get 4 magnets. Try to glue 2 magnets at opposition and leave them alone. After 2 weaks unglue them (you can use standard PATEX, its best for practising) and try their force against each other. Then try force of other 2 magnets which you dont use. You will see that opposited magnets are much, much weaker.

 

 

Im working with 5x5x1,5 cm sized ferit magnets which are very strong and this experiment is very good tested on them.

[TEguy]

Hello Everyone,

I am a little surprised I haven’t been to this forum before.

Wow I just read 199 messages. I have been doing it during my lunch breaks, took me three days. Anyway, I have been thinking about permanent magnet powered motors for a while. I think people get a bit carried away with what is perpetual and what is not. I think that strictly speaking you can't have a true perpetual motion device because of friction and heat losses, BUT if we could come up with a device that uses cheap and clean sources of energy that are (as far as we are concerned) unlimited, then we are doing allright. I have two questions at this stage:

 

1. Uncle Martin where are you up to with your design? and

2. Captain 90 Where are you up to with your design?

 

I think the people in this forum put together have more potential than any one single person who ever attempted this sort of thing. I think it would be great if someone has completely and truly given up on their idea they should share it with everyone else in this forum and allow others to solve the problem that had brought the concept at a halt.

 

Musical mechanic in case no one answered your question couse I’m not sure now, A good magnetic shield is a piece of steel. Put a piece of steel between two magnets and they will not repel each other, even when like poles are facing. The problem I guess then is you can’t have a magnetic shield that is not affected by the magnet it is shielding. It’s been keeping me awake at night this one.

 

If anyone knows of a way to shield a magnet without the shielding medium being affected by the magnet other than a great distance, please let us know. You might be saving the world.

 

I didn’t hear anyone mention the Perendev motor. Has anyone heard what the latest is? It was very promising and then it went quiet.

 

I have many concepts in my head most of them I can see why will not work. But with one concept so far I haven’t figured out why it should not work. I am planning on building something simple to find out what will happen.

 

Hope none of you have given up. IT CAN BE DONE. Even if it is as perpetual as a permanent magnet is permanent. Magnets are cheap, using them for generating power even for a finite period of time beats polluting the environment and relying on oil companies.

 

Keep thinking

TEguy

[arkain101]

I am opening the patent process for the Multi Free Energy Developing Transportation system and Flash-Curve Crank Engine this month.

 

Designs and information of the patent I will gladly share here as soon as possible.

[BEAKER]

http://hypography.com/forums/science-projects-homework/4643-crackpot-science-quest-impossible.html

 

This is a link to another thread within this website with a couple examples of non working PMMs.

 

Enjoy.:rolleyes:

[killasnail42]

hello

[Geronimo]

Welcome TEguy to this forum :lol: , ill reply in some quotes. Its 3 AM here but new posts enjoy me in writeing some replys :cat: .

 

First of all, if you read all posts you will now that me and my friend have working, really working model of perpetual motion machine and we are still searching how to make it publish (see my old posts). :) But it seems no winning for us.

 

I think people get a bit carried away with what is perpetual and what is not. I think that strictly speaking you can't have a true perpetual motion device because of friction and heat losses etc...

 

There are lot of definitions of what perpetual machine really is. We modificate expression like this.

 

1. Doesnt matter if perpetual motion machine needs starting impuls or not.

2. It must not be working with any king of gravity force. (If yes, its good but mot perpetual :cool: )

3. If device product energy to repair or to restore its functionality and some free usable energy, than it is perpetual motion device.

 

We do not need to test perpetual device for infinite time or 10 neather 100 years. If it can product as much energy as required for its working state plus anything to it, it is simple perpetual.

 

Of course such device must have eficiency of 150 % and more (my opinion).

 

I think the people in this forum put together have more potential than any one single person who ever attempted this sort of thing. I think it would be great if someone has completely and truly given up on their idea they should share it with everyone else in this forum and allow others to solve the problem that had brought the concept at a halt.

 

This is really nice thinking. But problem start if someone will success. I do not have problem present several ideas here. I can save you very lot of time, because we spend really huge amount sum of money for building up to 40 realizations, all looks very good at first stage, but at the final they do not work. And idea was good. Theoreticaly they should work. Most of them doesnt brake any physic laws. Its just in angle of look.

 

Im really interested if someone else will make different machine work, ill help as much as i can. It seems that there is not just one possible realization. I know about 3 more modification of our device which can work now. But trully it is very long time of hard work. Many years.

 

Please do not be negative to this opinion. Its not so easy as just tell it anywhere in forum or fire it to media throught world.

 

Musical mechanic in case no one answered your question couse I’m not sure now, A good magnetic shield is a piece of steel. Put a piece of steel between two magnets and they will not repel each other, even when like poles are facing. The problem I guess then is you can’t have a magnetic shield that is not affected by the magnet it is shielding. It’s been keeping me awake at night this one.

 

If anyone knows of a way to shield a magnet without the shielding medium being affected by the magnet other than a great distance, please let us know. You might be saving the world.

 

I can help you with this problem. It is not true what you wrote down. It is similar to usual subwoofer or any other repro magnet. If you look at it, it has shealding. It means box from steel without one side (you will use that side for entering magnet in it). Then magnet is shield from all sides except one where is looking its face.

 

It is not possible to make shielding as just put some piece of steel between magnets. Then if you know how looks diagram of magnet forces you can imagine it like all force of magnet is forwarding to unshielded side, so it is as much as almost 2x stronger then unshielded magnet. All other sides are without any magnetic force, because all magnet forces are shorted to margin of unshielded face. Its similar to electricity. Easyest way is where forces goes. If i find how i can post an image of such magnet here from one of our experiments.

 

This is fine but unusuable, because forces are very strong in all directions.

 

It works as nice as if you put the box with magnet to other metal (at shielded side, there is no magnetic strong, clean zero. Another good thing is that magnet does not demagnetize itself in this shield. So you can test it, but we make several tests and it is not useable (of course we can be wrong).

 

I didn’t hear anyone mention the Perendev motor. Has anyone heard what the latest is? It was very promising and then it went quiet.

 

Perendev motor cristalize to clean big bubble. As fast as they introduce it to world and start receiving orders with payment, as fast they gone.

 

They was not able to prove that their motor is not falsum. There are just few videos over the net, and all are taken from bad angles and there is no starting sequence of device except one, where you can see device just from one side.

 

We made a replic of this motor and as we thank before, it was all fake. Shielding neodym magnets is just fort they maximum force. But basic problem is that there is no way how to make this device unbalanced to extract rotary force. Any possible variants of all three rotor disks make all magnet positions to balanced zero state, so no rotation is generated. All video sequence was taken when some device startmachine work to high rotation and device itself work just as balance wheels (wery heavy and long time whenit stops).

 

I have many concepts in my head most of them I can see why will not work. But with one concept so far I haven’t figured out why it should not work. I am planning on building something simple to find out what will happen.

 

If you can describe it a little maybe we can help you with right way or maybe we can find some solution here (or maybe there is some simple mistake you cannot see). As you want.

 

Hope none of you have given up. IT CAN BE DONE. Even if it is as perpetual as a permanent magnet is permanent. Magnets are cheap, using them for generating power even for a finite period of time beats polluting the environment and relying on oil companies.

 

 

Clean true.

 

Nothing just agree.

 

See ya,

 

Geronimo.