Vending Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 One last thing that proves Judaism is bogus, the fossil record. Dinosaurs eat fish.:) Perhaps I am just stupid, but how does the theory that dinasaurs ate fish in any way affect Judaism? Really, i dont' think i get it. THanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questor Posted January 6, 2006 Report Share Posted January 6, 2006 CC, in answer to your post: ''It's your thread. If you want to define go ahead. For now, the term is well enough know for those interested to make up their own mind as to what IT may or may not be. Before creation (bb) is too speculative, ludicrous, even in cosmology. Here's my take on image: He was crearted in mans image, (not the other way around). cc'' 1. this is not my post2. if there was a creator, he was obviously present before or at BBof course we have no proof of this either way3. of course, your post fails to define what you mean by IT, as do all the others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kizzi Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 If one was clever enough, then perhaps one could devise a way of bringing oneself into existence! Kizzi:shrug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HydrogenBond Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 If, for the sake of argument, one assumes that God was created in man's image, the question that arises is, how is it possible for many widespread religions to all come up with a God concept, independantly of each other? If the God concept was an isolated event and only a culture or two came up with it, that would make sense. But all ancient cultures came up with very similar ideas, many of which existed in isolation. One logical way to explain this is that all modern human cultures have the same point of origin and then spread out from there. This is consistent with archeological evidence which has shown the first records of higher human culture (more adanced that migratory or tribal culture), began in one place. Ironically, the time of this first recorded modern human culture, is a little after the time when Adam and Eve were suppose to be on the earth. This is consistent with the Bible. Getting back to genesis and the creation of the heavens and earth, the ancient people did not have telescopes. What they could see of the universe was limited by what the human eye could see. The universe beyond that would have been pure speculation (pseudo-science) at that point in time.The bible account was rationally consistent with the direct data and the modern principles of science, using the limitations associated with ancient technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questor Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 if man was created in God's image, then man looks like God,ergo God looks like man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vending Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 if man was created in God's image, then man looks like God,ergo God looks like man For the sake of argument i think i will speak up. There seems to be a common misconception that being made in the image of something means that you look like it. While this certainly could be true, it is not nessesarily true. The work image can also mean a physcal representation of something that is intagible. For instance, you could say that someone is the perfect image of kindness. To be sure, this is not a common usage today, however, I belive it was more common in the 17th and 18th centuries. With this in mind having man made in the image of God COULD mean that man was made in order to give tangible representation of some of the quilities that a God would have. I suppose that we must then turn to defining God, which is always a problem. A basic definition that will work for most people, i think, is that God is supernatural. That is he is not constrained by the natural laws that we are. Thus, to be made in gods image would be to have some reflection of this supernaturalism. Or something. Anyways, just thought i would chime in and let you all know that image does not nessesarily mean photograph :hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcreation Posted January 7, 2006 Report Share Posted January 7, 2006 If, for the sake of argument, one assumes that God was created in man's image, the question that arises is, how is it possible for many widespread religions to all come up with a God concept, independantly of each other? If the God concept was an isolated event and only a culture or two came up with it, that would make sense. But all ancient cultures came up with very similar ideas, many of which existed in isolation. To each of the cultures that existed prior to specific discoveries in science there were difficulties in explaining natural phenomena, so a non-natural outcome was inevitable, i.e., god, IT. The curious thing is that even today, with the knowledge available to all, belief in the supernatural is still widespread. What ancient culture existed in isolation? Sorry Questor, my mistake. It is not your thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWolf Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Well without getting into pointless and endless discussion. Scientists don't believe in God very often because they except only what they can observe or describe with mathematics. However science to does not describe all of nature accurately yet. Plus no mathematical model explains origin or existence of both life and the universe. Many religions speak of God(s). Many are myth. People yet still seek spiritual answers by instinct. We are very different the rest of life on Earth. Unable to even tap our full mental potential in our lifetimes. The God mentioned in the Bible however is rather unique. Probably the only monotheistic god mentioned by name not counting trinity doctrine. The name in fact is mentioned over 6,000 + times in the old testament. Jews fear to even speak the name and original pronunciation has been lost. One suggestion is Yahweh or in English, Jehovah. The name means, "He causes to become". In Exodus to Jehovah said to Moses, "I shall prove to be what I shall prove to be". Jehovah's name is verb or in action. Jehovah God in the Bible is a active god. Changing to whatever He needs to be to suit his purpose. One scripture speaks of his abundance of dynamic energy and also being vigorous in power. Another speaks of him knowing every star by name! Finally another scripture He is described as beginning and ending. Jehovah then has following qualities: 1)He is a spirit. A spirit is another form of life. Unlike life on Earth that he created, spirits are different. The clues mentioned in the Bible indicate that spirits unlike us do not require food, do not age, and our genderless. Plus they are non material. Which implies they are not made of matter or energy as we know it, but something else, something far different. Hence unlike us spirits are not bound physical restrictions. 2)Jehovah has no beginning or ending. He's been around for infinite time. Heck the concept of time is his invention in first place as is the gift of self awareness. He himself indicates he was never created, but is eternal. No god or force existed prior. His first creative act was to make lesser Spirits. Michael (also known on Earth as Jesus Christ, son of God) the Arc Angel is apparently the first in scriptures. Then after that he directed Michael to make angels and all the rest of creation (including universe). 3)The fact God has no beginning is weird to us because we think of usual cause and effect. God unlike us does not require a beginning. We do obviously because are parts governed by natural laws of nature to which Jehovah created in the first place. Jehovah God however is not made of anything we can conceive of. How wise is it to speculate about a being or His creation that are far older than human experience and knowledge? 4)Scientists often ask if God exists where is he? Why can't I see him? Where does he exist? It has been implied from theories that higher dimensional life to us would see magical and godlike, and that we would not be able to see them directly. Well does it not seem reasonable that God exists in dimensions or space different than ours?! He even names his realm, calling it Heaven. Not a sky heavens but a spirtual Heaven. The name implying something great or above mankind. A very suitable name. God himself also said that no man can yet see Him yet and live. We cannot even look directly at our Sun without receiving damage or many objects in universe. How could you look at a God greater than these things and yet live!? 5) Much of life and physical laws indicate supreme intelligence. The complexity of even simple life functions happening by chance ranges in some cases to numbers greater than a Google, which according to modern mathematics means we should not technically exist if we came by chance! (anything over 10 to the 50th power does not occur. Period.) 6)Jehovah indicated even a purpose for mankind. So to question God's existence or to imply we thought him up violates the evidence. The odds of life happening by chance is so remote as it will not occur. Likewise implying humans imagined God is no different than saying we thought up God and arranged our own existence.:hihi: Quite frankly to not believe in God or agnostic views are still religion in that are still a form of belief. Therefore no human has ever not had a religion. Many religions exist. But which of them is the right one and which is not is a personal decision each persons must make for them self. Not to mention the consequences of the belief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWolf Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 You may or may not aggree as is your personal right of freedom of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcreation Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 god was created by man in his image. when and where is still unknown. cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questor Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 man may have created God in his own image, but the creator was not created by man, quite the reverse. do you understand the difference between God and creator? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcreation Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 man may have created God in his own image, but the creator was not created by man, quite the reverse. do you understand the difference between God and creator? hmm, yea,god has a beard and the creator doesn't. quite honestly, joking aside, for now, please enlighten me. cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abstruce Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Perhaps I am just stupid, but how does the theory that dinasaurs ate fish in any way affect Judaism? Really, i dont' think i get it. THanks!We all seek the answers to all the questions, just some are unable to except not knowing all the answers. The insanity of Christianity is closing ones eyes twords reality. Well you know that Christian symbol everyone has on the back of their car that looks like a fish. I have a symbol of a Dinosaur eating a fish on my car. It is a metaphor for reality, interrupting the 1st century world view in the Bible, of the Judean based religions.:hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abstruce Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 “15 Behold now, behemoth, which I made as well as thee; He eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, And his force is in the muscles of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: The sinews of his thighs are knit together. 18 His bones are as tubes of brass; His limbs are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: He only that made him giveth him his sword. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, Where all the beasts of the field do play. 21 He lieth under the lotus-trees, In the covert of the reed, and the fen. 22 The lotus-trees cover him with their shade; The willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, if a river overflow, he trembleth not; He is confident, though a Jordan swell even to his mouth.” — Job 40:15-23 Great you found a passage that describes an elephant.:hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abstruce Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 I read ages ago that the belief of the ancient (I think) Sumerians, was that light and dark were the properties of day and night -- they were specific entities -- and that the sun, moon and stars were there merely to enhance the day and night. Yea, and the Earth was flat at the center of the Universe.:hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questor Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 CC, you have to be kidding. man has only existed for 6-8 million years, whereas the created universe is 4.5-15 Billion years old. your concept of God was not here when the universe came to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldcreation Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 CC, you have to be kidding. man has only existed for 6-8 million years, whereas the created universe is 4.5-15 Billion years old. your concept of God was not here when the universe came to be. Originally Posted by questorman may have created God in his own image, but the creator was not created by man, quite the reverse. do you understand the difference betweenGod and creator? Quote CC:hmm, yea,god has a beard and the creator doesn't. quite honestly, joking aside, for now, please enlighten me. cc------------------------------------------------------------------------ Coldcreation So, what is the answer to the quest above. The difference between god and a creator? enlighten me. Where do you get "the created universe is 4.5-15 Billion years old"? 4.5 Gyrs?. How about stars that are 15 Gyrs old. Were they here before the universe? cc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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