Stargazer Posted December 6, 2005 Report Share Posted December 6, 2005 why not believe the Bible?Why believe in it? Do you mean, why not believe in all of it, or some of it? everything it teaches is good, right?Are you sure? it's okay to care one for another, right?You don't need the Bible for that. what does the Bible say that people are so mad?, scared?, confused about?i mean what's the big deal?do the non-believers know why they don't believe?Yes. I don't believe in any religion, because I find the idea of religion to be unnecessary and generally a bad idea. alot of people here seem to know much about the Bible, but, don't believe in God?what's up with that? answer all or some of the questions, if you like :confused: thanksWhy believe in the god of the Bible? There are so many other fictional gods (all of them are). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 I don't believe God would be so closed as to only allow followers of one religion to get to heaven. -WillI don't either. I think God is going to judge people's motives, and give forgiveness to those who mean well.“But Jehovah said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have rejected him: for Jehovah seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but Jehovah looketh on the heart.” — 1 Samuel 16:7 asv“To them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life: but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek; but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek: for there is no respect of persons with God. For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified: (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves; in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ.” — Romans 2:7-16 asv“By their fruits ye shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Therefore by their fruits ye shall know them. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.” — Matthew 7:16-21 asv“And seven women shall take hold of one man in that day, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name; take thou away our reproach.” — Isaiah 4:1 asvMost mainstream Christians say that salvation by works was done away with by Jesus. But God never had more than one salvation plan. Salvation by works never was possible. Why all the Old Testament commandments, rituals, and sacrifices, then, you ask?Well, the commandments I believe are just good behavior. I don't see any support for the notion that they were just propaganda used by the Hebrew political powers. Yeah they promote peace, but what's wrong with that exactly? And what more would we expect from a Creator?The rituals, such as the feasts, the tabernacle layout, and so forth were just prophesies to set in the minds of believers what was going on behind the scenes. The real high priest making atonement for the people is Jesus with his sinless (without spot) sacrifice. The tabernacle was to represent the necessary seperation between people and the "most holy place" which is God's presence. (I'm skipping a lot of details.)The real sacrifice lamb "without spot or blemish" was both his sinless life on earth and his death. Both spotlessness and death were required in the symbolic sacrifices. The purpose of sacrificing lambs was not only to prophesy regarding the coming Messiah, but also to see who was actually humble.Jesus says more than once that people who think they are saved will be rejected because of how they acted. (Matthew 7:16-21; Revelation 2:20-23) While I don't think anyone can be perfect, I'm willing to bet that an honest attempt to make unselfish decisions in life and basically be self-disciplined for the cause of harmony, or for the greater good, etc. will be the determining factor of who exactly gets their sins forgiven through Jesus' sacrifice. why not believe the Koran?everything it teaches is good, right?it's okay to care one for another, right?what does the Koran say that people are so mad?, scared?, confused about?i mean what's the big deal?do the non-believers know why they don't believe?alot of people here seem to know much about the Koran, but, don't believe in Allah?what's up with that? You see, goku, the Bible is not the only sacred text. Tell me, what makes christianity better than muslims, jews, etc.?LOL, you just happened to pick the three that profess the same God (of Abraham). yes, but heavy-handed vengance isn't quite as universal.Kill everyone who beleives in another spiritual systemIt comes from having it puhed in your face all the time; like a surgon on a battlefeild, repeated exposure to the inner workings tends to breed familliarity. Hindus, Taoists, Sufi, Cristians, Jesuits and all others look pritty much the same once you're under the skin.In the context of my initial point, God's law (lit. "instructions") is wisdom; good and bad behavior bring like consequences. "What goes around comes around", like karma. That's why he prescribes a certain handful of behavioral criteria. He's looking out for our interests.I don't know what verses you're referring to, but there is only one Spiritual system. You are either spiritual or carnal, regardless of the pages in front of you. (Romans 2:14-15; Romans 8:4-8) This is what is means when it says "God weighs the heart".And see, you said it yourself; religions are mostly the same underneath. Regardless of the name you put on a given spirituality, there will be both those who talk the talk and those who walk the walk in any religious system. That also goes for other areas in life, like science. People can be disingenuous whatever the circumstances.“Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were foolish, and five were wise. For the foolish, when they took their lamps, took no oil with them: but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. Now while the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. But at midnight there is a cry, Behold, the bridegroom! Come ye forth to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are going out. But the wise answered, saying, Peradventure there will not be enough for us and you: go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went away to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage feast: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.” — Matthew 25:1-10 asv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantism Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 You presume to understand God pretty well to say such a thing. well, wouldnt every christian HAVE to understand God, just to be a christian. to be christian has to do with the personal interpritation and understanding of what the person's God has to say, and also and understanding of God's intentions. or at least it always did with me. Goku, you seem to know more about christianity than me (fitting seeing as how a christian i am not), does what i said make sense to you? correct me if im wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantism Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 why not believe the Bible? well, belief in the bible would constitute belief in a god, to be exact the christian God. i dont, so i dont. everything it teaches is good' date=' right?[/quote'] uhhhh...have you read the old testiment? it's okay to care one for another' date=' right?[/quote'] of course. but, as far as i can tell, the bible teaches to care for other good christians, not everyone as it should be. what does the Bible say that people are so mad?' date=' scared?, confused about?[/quote'] mad? no. scared? definatley not:hihi: . confused? not really. i think that, for me at least, i dont so much have a problem with religion. its more apathy than anything else. religion is nothing to me, and that is my buisness. if religion is something to whoever reading this, that is your buisness. agree to disagree.:confused: i mean what's the big deal?do the non-believers know why they don't believe?alot of people here seem to know much about the Bible' date=' but, don't believe in God?what's up with that?[/quote'] i know about the bible becuase i a.) used to be a christian and b.) am very interested in religion. i dont believe because i dont like the idea of a god to fall back on when something goes wrong, or even right for that matter. i would rather except personal responsability for everything that happens in my life. im sure that if your god is as fair and reasonalble as you say, he would understand that completely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 well, wouldnt every christian HAVE to understand God, just to be a christian. to be christian has to do with the personal interpritation and understanding of what the person's God has to say, and also and understanding of God's intentions. or at least it always did with me. Goku, you seem to know more about christianity than me (fitting seeing as how a christian i am not), does what i said make sense to you? correct me if im wrong...understanding, there is so much that i don't understand.i don't understand how he saved me, how he put this feeling in my heart, or why he saved the worthless sinner that i i'm. the one thing that i do understand is that he loves me, he loves everyone.God loves mankind so much that he gave his perfect son to die in the most cruel way so that everyone could be in heaven with him. all we have to do is believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 uhhhh...have you read the old testiment?what are you talking about? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantism Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 ah yes, faith that i could never have. cheers, goku, heres to the faith that you have!:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantism Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 what are you talking about? ah, yes, once again, i could be wrong. it was my understanding that in the old testiment God was cruel to makind and he hated them, erm ,us. what is your understading?:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted December 7, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 many times has man turned away from God, then he would punish them and they would turn back. back and forth, back and forth. once God saw man, that all that was in man's heart was evil and he said that's it, i'm gona destroy them all. but he found one rightous man. he told that man to build a boat because there's a flood a comin. God could have destroied that man to, but, he is a just God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarantism Posted December 7, 2005 Report Share Posted December 7, 2005 many times has man turned away from God, then he would punish them and they would turn back. back and forth, back and forth. once God saw man, that all that was in man's heart was evil and he said that's it, i'm gona destroy them all. but he found one rightous man. he told that man to build a boat because there's a flood a comin. God could have destroied that man to, but, he is a just God. i see, i do know that story, Noah's Ark, right? yes, i remember it pretty well. i will have to read the Old Testiment again, refresh my memory...when i do, we will discuss it.:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkellmd Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 What does the Bible say that people are so mad?, scared?, confused about? The problem for many is that too many religious people see God as an entity by which we can explain all that we don't know, a way of "filling in the gaps" in our understanding of the unverse. After all, at one time the bible was once used to explain everything; the sun revolved around the earth, and God moved things with his fingers. Some people see God diminished somehow by the ascendancy of the evolutionary paradigm over the ideas of creationism, and so forth. As more of the workings of the universe are explained, the room a God who only "fills in the gaps" becomes less and less, scaring the bejesus (pun intended) out of those who mistake the bible for a history book or scientific abstract. This puts science and God at odds. Why does god have to exist outside of or in-between scientific ideas? The bible doesn't mention microbes, dinosaurs and subatomic particles because the people who wrote it didn't know about them. Does that mean that God doesn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted December 8, 2005 Author Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Job 40:15-24, Job 41 (KJV)could be talking about dinosaurs, the word dinosaur hasn't always been around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkellmd Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 It's okay to care one for another, right? Yeah, you betcha. All of the other rules don't matter (almost). St. John (The Beloved) was one of the few apostles to escape martyrdom, and lived to old age. He was carried around on a litter, and was constantly asked "What did the teacher say?" by people who hadn't met JC in the flesh, who were looking for one good rule. His reply, oft repeated, was - "love one another." I've heard it said that JC came to tell us that the law (of Moses) is not enough. It's not enough to honor the sabbath, not steal, not covet, avoid pork, and keep your meat and cheese plates separate, if you still ignore god and hate your fellow man. He was killed for breaking a biblical law (healing on the sabbath), and is quoted as saying that the first two commandmants are all you really need. If you love your fellow man, will you kill/steal from/cuckold/lie to him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 The problem for many is that too many religious people see God as an entity by which we can explain all that we don't know, a way of "filling in the gaps" in our understanding of the unverse. After all, at one time the bible was once used to explain everything; the sun revolved around the earth, and God moved things with his fingers.It doesn't explain anything physical, dude. It's not a gap filler, except maybe spiritually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 Yeah, you betcha. All of the other rules don't matter (almost). St. John (The Beloved) was one of the few apostles to escape martyrdom, and lived to old age. He was carried around on a litter, and was constantly asked "What did the teacher say?" by people who hadn't met JC in the flesh, who were looking for one good rule. His reply, oft repeated, was - "love one another." I've heard it said that JC came to tell us that the law (of Moses) is not enough. It's not enough to honor the sabbath, not steal, not covet, avoid pork, and keep your meat and cheese plates separate, if you still ignore god and hate your fellow man. He was killed for breaking a biblical law (healing on the sabbath), and is quoted as saying that the first two commandmants are all you really need. If you love your fellow man, will you kill/steal from/cuckold/lie to him?You are very wise. =) And you are right. Religion killed Jesus. LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkellmd Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 It doesn't explain anything physical, dude. It's not a gap filler, except maybe spiritually. Indeed. It wan't meant to. The problem lies in people trying to do just that, and alienating everyone else with fanciful religious explanations of how we came to be here. Tarantism 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southtown Posted December 8, 2005 Report Share Posted December 8, 2005 The problem lies in people trying to do just that, and alienating everyone else with fanciful religious explanations of how we came to be here.You make an excellent point. Some people feel they have to understand everything before they know anything. But... I see more inconsistency with popular science than I do with scripture. http://www.creationscience.com/HydroplateOverview.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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