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After adam and eve, evolution?


cwes99_03

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I've heard many professed christians say that they believe that God created a few creatures and then set forth evolution to allow for diversification. Without delving into the fight on creation vs. evolution (I ask the moderators and admins to help me here, to make this thread a real theological issue), does anyone think the following view is a viable Biblical answer to the current scientific view of mutation/evolution?

 

The Bible says that Adam and Eve and a great many creatures and plant life were created by God and placed on the earth. Adam and Eve then sinned and were removed from the Garden of Eden and told that they would toil and work the ground and eventually die. Sin is the trait passed down from parent to child that keeps mankind from attaining to perfection (minus the tree of life in the Garden which is being guarded from entrance by angels).

The world Adam and Eve were placed in after being removed from the Garden was obviously also imperfect. Could this be an answer to the scientific evidence suggesting some evolution has taken place? That God in fact did create everything, but once he removed Adam and Eve from the Garden, the imperfect world which he placed them in fell into a similar state of "disrepair" where animals and plants mutated because of their imperfections and the imperfections of the world in which they lived?

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I don't think people actually take the story of Adam and Eve seriously. It's like one of Aesop's fables, it's just meant to teach people right from wrong. I think it's pretty obvious that God didn't just create two people and then everyone else came from them, I guess unless you think that people also fought the dinosaurs and the sun revolves around the earth. I believe that there is a God who created the Universe, but I also think that he pretty much left it from there. The early bible stories are meant to teach morals, not the origin of the species.

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The world Adam and Eve were placed in after being removed from the Garden was obviously also imperfect. Could this be an answer to the scientific evidence suggesting some evolution has taken place? That God in fact did create everything, but once he removed Adam and Eve from the Garden, the imperfect world which he placed them in fell into a similar state of "disrepair" where animals and plants mutated because of their imperfections and the imperfections of the world in which they lived?
Theologically this is an interesting argument: that it all would have been planned and changes to creatures would be directly by God's hand, but that outside of Eden, "random mutations"--driven by Satan?--"influence" God's creations. Does this imply that certain animals have become completely possessed by the devil due to greater effects of those mutations? Hmmmm. Are there other biblical references that would back up this interpretation?

 

Its an interesting concept, and I think worthy of discussion among those who believe that only literal interpretation of the Bible is acceptable. Others see virtually all of the first chapters of Genesis as allegorical. The argument for this is that if there were more to it, there would have been at least as many words devoted to it as there were to all the "begats" later in the book!

 

So the diversity of humans is linked to the incest of the second and onward generations?
Actually its worse: Since Eve came from Adam's rib, the *first* generation was *human cloning* followed by sex with your clone-daughter. That's actually sick when you think about it....

 

Cheers,

Buffy

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Theologically this is an interesting argument: that it all would have been planned and changes to creatures would be directly by God's hand, but that outside of Eden, "random mutations"--driven by Satan?--"influence" God's creations. Does this imply that certain animals have become completely possessed by the devil due to greater effects of those mutations? Hmmmm. Are there other biblical references that would back up this interpretation?

Well, thanks, this thought has been playing through my head for the past week or so. From my study of the Bible, it doesn't have any unscriptural thoughts, though I'm not ever totally sure of that. As to whether this implies possession by demons, I don't think so. I'm going on an assumption of what you mean by possessed.

The Bible alludes to the idea that man gradually became less perfect, as evidenced by the length of their lives getting gradually shorter, until today life expectancy is only about 80 years, much shorter than 600 years. Why then would animals and plants also not existing in the Garden not go through the same effects. In many cases they reproduce and die much more quickly, which leaves them to mutate more rapidly. The bacteria and diseases that affect mankind are getting worse, but largely we can say they descend from bacteria that has little if any harmful effect on other life. Therefore, it seems likely to me that they probably descended from these bacterium after Adam and Eve (et al?) were evicted from the Garden.

Can anyone think of any particular Biblical scripture that would go against this, theologically speaking?

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Again, this is a theological discussion. If you don't have something to answer the first post upon theological grounds (the study of religious ideas based upon religious teachings) keep your comments in some other thread, please. Take Buffy's example.

I'm not denying anything you said in the previous post (though i disagree with your probably didn't live that long because you have nothing to base that upon whereas I have the Bible), but it has nothing to do with the thread.

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You are wrong rockytriton. Cwess(...) said from the start that he makes an hypothesis (ie. Adam and Eve existed) and wants an biblical answer (ie. not one that denies Adam and Eve). It's the typical scientific process :"let's suppose something and let's see where we get with this supposition". The way of thinking is exactly the same as science:logic.

If you don't want to make hypothesises that you don't think to be scientific then don't discuss in a theology forum thread when such a premise is asked by the thread starter.

 

Just to make sure you don't get me wrong: I don't believe in any kind of god, I just want to point out that you can also discuss theology without believing in it.

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Without delving into the fight on creation vs. evolution (I ask the moderators and admins to help me here, to make this thread a real theological issue), does anyone think the following view is a viable Biblical answer to the current scientific view of mutation/evolution?

While I can try to help you keep this on topic, I do not claim to be any kind of biblical scholar. You should also realize that this main focus of this site is to attract science participants so I don't know how many members here can discuss this topic from a biblical standpoint. If you don't find the discusson productive you may have to ask this question on a biblical site to get a well rounded biblical response.

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I don't think people actually take the story of Adam and Eve seriously.

 

Might I suggest that you let those people speak for themselves?

 

It's like one of Aesop's fables, it's just meant to teach people right from wrong.

 

Well, if they don't take it "seriously", then they're not going to learn anything about right and wrong, are they?

 

I think it's pretty obvious that God didn't just create two people and then everyone else came from them, I guess unless you think that people also fought the dinosaurs and the sun revolves around the earth. I believe that there is a God who created the Universe, but I also think that he pretty much left it from there. The early bible stories are meant to teach morals, not the origin of the species.

 

Well, that's your opinion and you certainly have a right to it. Personally, I think it's pretty obvious that the Biblical account of creation is far more credible than the evolutionary/naturalist account (such as it is). I think it's pretty obvious that the human race indeed could have come from just two people.

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The bible isn't a scientific text, this is a scientific site, so you have nothing to base it on.
This forum is devoted to Theological points of view rocky and the usual requirement for evidence is not expected from the participants. If you have scientific views or questions, you need to place them in the forums where they are applicable. If you come to this forum demanding evidence, it could be considered trolling. So my advice to you would be, don't come to this Theological forum expecting proof. If you continue to demand evidence from the participants in these discussions, I will deem it an act of flaming and will ware you of such...............Infy
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