Pyrotex Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 yeah i would agree that it is discovered but there are some parts about math that have only come about directly because of us humans. for example we use base 10 as our default system - I assume because we have 10 fingers and 10 toes...Actually, only a miniscule part of math depends on base 10 or any particular base. That tiny part is merely the writing of numbers, what symbols are used to express the quantity 12 for example. 12(base10)= "12"12(base12)= "10"12(base8)= "14"12(base3)= "110"12(base2)= "1100" That tiny part also includes what written symbols we use. Is the symbol for "one" written as "1", "T", "(", "a", "-", or whatever? The rest of math: arithmetic, algrebra, trig, calculus, matrices, ... , AND all the science that uses math: physics, chemistry, statistics, ... , are all independent of how you write a "one" or what base you use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigD Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 …Math: mathematics is the body of knowledge justified by deductive reasoning, starting from axioms and definitions … A mathematical system is deterministic, the system itself behaves independently of how it is observed.If a theorem is proven and the mathematician dies before writing the proof does it make the theorem any less true?Welcome, Vin! As you might gather from my post count, I too find this an interesting place to hang out and discuss all sorts of Math/Science related stuff. I agree with your definition of Math. I prefer the term “formal system” to “mathematical system”, but believe we’re both referring to the same thing. I take the additional step of asserting that reasoning is itself a collection of axioms in a formal system that, in the sense that it is used to create the description of every formal system ever described by a human being, has existed effectively forever. Whether this “bootstrap” formal system was discovered, created, and if so by what or whom, is a question that gets very deep very quickly! PS: Try posting to the introductions forum, if you’d like to, well, … introduce yourself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 I take the additional step of asserting that reasoning is itself a collection of axioms in a formal system that, in the sense that it is used to create the description of every formal system ever described by a human being, has existed effectively forever. Whether this “bootstrap” formal system was discovered, created, and if so by what or whom, is a question that gets very deep very quickly!Actually, it's the set of inference rules. These, a priori, may be chosen quite arbitrarily but the formal systems useful for reasoning are those that include the inference rules of logic. These can however be generalized, just like anything in mathematics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chendoh Posted February 17, 2006 Report Share Posted February 17, 2006 hmmm......... lets see......... would it be fair to say math is a science? and science is observation, study, and experimenting of an unique incident.. /..occasion to find the nature and principles of that incident... /...occasion so all three sides of the poll are correct. ...the only thing faster than light is your mind...;) ....chendoh.....;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skywyze Posted February 18, 2006 Report Share Posted February 18, 2006 Mathematics is a language we created to describe the underlying, unchangeable quanta that we interact with in everyday life. Our understanding of the laws has improved, and so our methods of describing them have improved. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alishah Posted February 23, 2006 Report Share Posted February 23, 2006 Math is a discovery . it was always present there on universe . all things in this universe are obeying rules and laws of mathematics . so we were unaware of math before it now we are aware of it . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I'm toying with the idea that maths is neither an invention nor a set of discoveries but something more along the lines of the manifestation of a morbid compulsion to tidy and arrange thought, an irrational obsession with rationality. I like the possibility that maths could be a species of (mass) psychopathology as expectable in larger societies, as are such developments as prostitution, murder, religion, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queso Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 it's always happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I'm toying with the idea that maths is neither an invention nor a set of discoveries but something more along the lines of the manifestation of a morbid compulsion to tidy and arrange thought, an irrational obsession with rationality. I like the possibility that maths could be a species of (mass) psychopathology as expectable in larger societies, as are such developments as prostitution, murder, religion, etc.IOW we created math, just like we created prostitution, murder, religion, etc.:naughty: :umno: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I'm assuming a distinction between this kind of effect and invention/creation, in that the latter are products of intent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qfwfq Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 No intent behind prostitution, murder, religion, etc? :umno: :naughty: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 I can imagine there being cases in which prostitution was consciously instituted but probably in a transplanted sense. I understand that there's intention behind individual acts of murder, prostitution and mathematics but, in any case, you have a point, I'll have a go at rethinking my similes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ughaibu Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 In my first post I was suggesting a similar expectability of these various phenomena, there wasn't a suggestion that those other than maths weren't created. So my latest post wasn't wildly to the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 In my first post I was suggesting a similar expectability of these various phenomena, there wasn't a suggestion that those other than maths weren't created. So my latest post wasn't wildly to the point. Ughaibu has proposed some very intelligent ideas lately...:hihi: Math has ALWAYS been here since the creation/evolution of the Universe.We, as Humans, found a way to Translate math into understandable and usable system. to try and answer the threaded question,we discovered it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Math has ALWAYS been here since the creation/evolution of the Universe.We, as Humans, found a way to Translate math into understandable and usable system. to try and answer the threaded question,we discovered it...Opinion... not verifable, amigo. Leave some wiggle room in your statements. If I am mistaken, show me how and support your position. I chose otherwise... hence, my qualm with the absolutism demonstrated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Opinion... not verifable, amigo. Leave some wiggle room in your statements. If I am mistaken, show me how and support your position. I chose otherwise... hence, my qualm with the absolutism demonstrated. Just like we didn't create all the atoms and photons either.They're just there.Math has been there too, until we uncovered all these formulas. We discovered the Atom like we discovered Math.In humble opinion, The Periodic Table of Elements was there before we had a Periodic Table... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InfiniteNow Posted March 13, 2006 Report Share Posted March 13, 2006 Well, that certainly is one opinion... :hihi: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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