Eddy_P Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 The Australian researcher RONALD PEGG has identified some of the biblically described End Time Events and has matched them to historical events. He found that the Old Testament not only provides a chronology of described events that are to occur in the end times but supplies the names of two end time people - Eliyahu (Hebrew for the English 'Elijah') and Michael.The New Testament foretells of Two Witnesses, with one being the same 'Michael' from the Old Testament.The Bible also reports that associated astronomical events and a war will accompany these 'witnesses'. Here are some historical and astronomical events that exactly match to the biblically described chronology and descriptions. 1980 . Dr Eliyahu Rips investigated a code in the Torah. (Malachi 4:5; Judges 6:8) 1991 . Persian Gulf War. (Daniel 11:40-45)1991 . Sun into darkness from oil fires. (Joel 2:31) July 1992 . Comet ShoemakerLevy9 breaks apart. (Revelations 12:1)June 28 1992 . Michael Drosnin was introduced to the E.L.S. code. (Daniel 12:1) July 1994 . Comet ShoemakerLevy9 hits Jupiter. (Revelations 12:3-4)Aug 1994 . Dr Rips submits a paper about the Bible Code. July 1996 . Michael Drosnin's warning is heeded by the Israeli Prime Minister after 21 days. (Daniel 10:13) April 1997 . Comet HaleBopp seen with naked eye. (Joel 2:30 / Rev 12:1)May 1997 . Michael Drosnin publishes his book The Bible Code (Daniel 9:25; Judges 6:11) in which he tells of historical events "written in the book" and reveals that a code is active is in the "scripture of truth" (ie. the Bible). (Daniel 12:1, 10:21) People immediately begin to dispute his findings about a code in the Book of Genesis on Internet message boards and forums. (Revelations 12:7; Jude 1:9) The Bible uses the terms 'prophet' and 'Messiah' (plus angel, prince, and archangel) as titles for their prophecised characters, thus from a religious perspective - the prophet Elijah (Eliyahu) is to come before the Messiah (prince and angel) named as Michael. Historically, this did happen.So, from a historical perspective these two documented characters = Dr Eliyahu Rips and Michael Drosnin. Source: www.pphcstudygroup.org.au/prophecies I have quoted the verses that speak of these 'modern events'.When the described events are checked to history books - the biblically expected End Time events have occurred. I would like someone to carefully check these 'matches' and see if you agree with their 'exactness'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay-qu Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 given 2000 years its likely that coincidences can occur... even a broken clock is right twice a day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damocles Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 Reply to Eddy_P by damocles Prophecized Biblical Events Have Occurred The Australian researcher RONALD PEGG has identified some of the biblically described End Time Events and has matched them to historical events. He found that the Old Testament not only provides a chronology of described events that are to occur in the end times but supplies the names of two end time people - Eliyahu (Hebrew for the English 'Elijah') and Michael.The New Testament foretells of Two Witnesses, with one being the same 'Michael' from the Old Testament.The Bible also reports that associated astronomical events and a war will accompany these 'witnesses'. Here are some historical and astronomical events that exactly match to the biblically described chronology and descriptions. 1980 . Dr Eliyahu Rips investigated a code in the Torah. (Malachi 4:5; Judges 6:8) (Malachi 4;5)Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the great and terrible day of Yahweh comes.(Judges 6;8)that Yahweh sent a prophet to the children of Israel: and he said to them, "Thus says Yahweh, the God of Israel,'I brought you up from Egypt, and brought you forth out of the house of bondage; No congruence. A not equal B. 1991 . Persian Gulf War. (Daniel 11:40-45) (Daniel 11;40)At the time of the end shall the king of the south contend with him; and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass through.(41)He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown; but these shall be delivered out of his hand: Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. (42)He shall stretch forth his hand also on the countries; and the land of Egypt shall not escape.(43)But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt; and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. (44)But news out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him; and he shall go forth with great fury to destroy and utterly to sweep away many.(45)He shall plant the tents of his palace between the sea and the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. The geography, time sequence, and deployments, are a total mismatch. Besides there have been three Iraqi wars. Two involving the United States and one involving Iran. At one time the end days Revelationists claimed it was Russia that was the King of the North, then it was Iraq. Now it is the United States? Cold War to Jihad War, I guess we have to rearrange the data sets to match the updated calendar. 1991 . Sun into darkness from oil fires. (Joel 2:31)(Joel 2;31)The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Yahweh comes. Now when did we see a blood red moon in the February and March of 1991? I think you might be overreaching with this one. We have had Krakatoa which was a far more significant sky darkening event within the recent historical memory and these verses were used to authenticate the end of the world then as well. July 1992 . Comet ShoemakerLevy9 breaks apart. (Revelations 12:1)(Revelations 12;1)A great sign was seen in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars There is no congruence between the comet description and the described biblical event; plus you now have one biblical prophecy covering two events(Two comets). See below. June 28 1992 . Michael Drosnin was introduced to the E.L.S. code. (Daniel 12:1)(Danial 12;1)"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who shall be found written in the book. ) The Michael herein referred is the Archangel Michael a distinct personage clearly identified as such elsewhere as the angel Michael in the book of Danial. Pardon me but:http://www.annonline.com/interviews/970716/ Is this the man? He popularized the bible code? http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/drosnin.html So Herman Melville prophesized his death in "Moby Dick"? Now is "Moby Dick" sacred scripture? July 1994 . Comet ShoemakerLevy9 hits Jupiter. (Revelations 12:3-4)(Revelation 12;3)Another sign was seen in heaven. Behold, a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven crowns. (4)His tail drew one third of the stars of the sky, and threw them to the earth. The dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child. Aug 1994 . Dr Rips submits a paper about the Bible Code. No reference given;presumed no match. However for the history of what we actually discuss; http://www.leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/bib-code.html Drosnin's book is based on a paper published in Statistical Science in 1994 by Witztum, Rips, and Rosenberg. With great statistical rigor, the authors show that the 78,064 Hebrew letters of the Book of Genesis, when set out with no spaces or punctuation, can be searched by a computer for specific words spelled out by ELS codes. Specifically, they set out to see if they could find the names of 32 famous rabbis in Genesis. Not only did they find ELS codes that spelled out all 32 rabbis, but near their names were coded their birth dates or death dates, or sometimes both. How could any author have known these details 2000 years before these men lived? This is amazing enough. The odds are said to be one in ten million! But in his book, Drosnin claims the same kind of codes revealed that Prime Minister Rabin would be assassinated a year before it happened. Drosnin even got a letter delivered through a friend to Rabin, but it was ignored. He also shows dozens of other historic events and how details about them are encoded all around where an ELS code finds the main name or event. July 1996 . Michael Drosnin's warning is heeded by the Israeli Prime Minister after 21 days. (Daniel 10:13) (Danial 10;3)I ate no pleasant bread, neither came flesh nor wine into my mouth, neither did I anoint myself at all, until three whole weeks were fulfilled. In reference to what? April 1997 . Comet HaleBopp seen with naked eye. (Joel 2:30 / Rev 12:1)(Joel 2;30)I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: blood, fire, and pillars of smoke. (Revelations 12;1)A great sign was seen in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars And you use the same verse to predict this SECOND comet?(One of several comets so seen that year.) May 1997 . Michael Drosnin publishes his book The Bible Code (Daniel 9:25; Judges 6:11) in which he tells of historical events "written in the book" and reveals that a code is active is in the "scripture of truth" (ie. the Bible). (Daniel 12:1, 10:21) People immediately begin to dispute his findings about a code in the Book of Genesis on Internet message boards and forums. (Revelations 12:7; Jude 1:9)In order of citation; (Danial 9;25)Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem to the Anointed One, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and sixty-two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troubled times. (Judges 6;11) The angel of Yahweh came, and sat under the oak which was in Ophrah, that pertained to Joash the Abiezrite: and his son Gideon was beating out wheat in the winepress, to hide it from the Midianites. (Danial 12;1)"At that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince who stands for the children of your people; and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone who shall be found written in the book. (Danial 10:21)But I will tell you that which is inscribed in the writing of truth: and there is none who holds with me against these, but Michael your prince." (Jude 1;9)But Michael, the archangel, when contending with the devil and arguing about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him an abusive condemnation, but said, "May the Lord rebuke you So I am too assume that if Drosnin practices numerology with a computer and I put him to the test and find him statistically ex post facto wanting like Nostrodamus? Then I am rebuked? Howso? The Bible uses the terms 'prophet' and 'Messiah' (plus angel, prince, and archangel) as titles for their prophecised characters, thus from a religious perspective - the prophet Elijah (Eliyahu) is to come before the Messiah (prince and angel) named as Michael. Historically, this did happen.So, from a historical perspective these two documented characters = Dr Eliyahu Rips and Michael Drosnin. Source: http://www.pphcstudygroup.org.au/prophecies I have quoted the verses that speak of these 'modern events'. When the described events are checked to history books - the biblically expected End Time events have occurred. I would like someone to carefully check these 'matches' and see if you agree with their 'exactness'.Eddy_P You have painted a grim end for the two witnesses you cite, for; (Revelations 11;3) I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred sixty days, clothed in sackcloth." (4)These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands, standing before the Lord of the earth. (5)If anyone desires to harm them, fire proceeds out of their mouth and devours their enemies. If anyone desires to harm them, he must be killed in this way. (6)These have the power to shut up the sky, that it may not rain during the days of their prophecy. They have power over the waters, to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire. (7)When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them. (8)Their dead bodies will be in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. (9)From among the peoples, tribes, languages, and nations people will look at their dead bodies for three and a half days, and will not allow their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. (10)Those who dwell on the earth rejoice over them, and they will be glad. They will give gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.(11)After the three and a half days, the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood on their feet. Great fear fell on those who saw them. (12)I heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here!" They went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies saw them. (13)In that day there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified, and gave glory to the God of heaven. So your two suspected prophets of the endtime do not match the outlined profile above? As you have seen I checked your citations and published the verses which you did not do, so that eye may see and mind comprehend the total mismatch that lies therein. Go you in peace. Credibility zero. ADDENDUM Cursorory GOOGLE search for peer review articles of bible code methodology; http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/torah.htmlFollow the links to the various studies published to refute the methodology of ELS. http://skepdic.com/bibcode.html Gives a brief layman's background on refutation research. Some of the actual research:http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/StatSci/StatSci.pdf More research for and against:http://dir.yahoo.com/Society_and_Culture/Religion_and_Spirituality/Faiths_and_Practices/Judaism/Teachings_and_Texts/Torah/Torah_Code/Opposing_Views/?o=a I will let others make up their own minds on the subject, but if I use a ramdom word ELS search generator and pick out Indira Ghandi's name and death date out of "War and Peace", then there is something rotten in the methodology applied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleAl Posted October 10, 2005 Report Share Posted October 10, 2005 The Australian researcher RONALD PEGG has identified some of the biblically described End Time Events and has matched them to historical events.Horrible crap. Religion, like economics, is accurate in retrospect and ridiculous in prediction. It is always jam on toast yesterday and jam on hot buttered toast tomorrow, but we are all going to the bakery today. Pay the tab. Hindus have 36 crores of gods, 360 million gods. How can you even magine competing with your pathetic breath mint 3-in-1, 1-in-3 tripartite weekly consumed-in-absentia godlette? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddy_P Posted October 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Eliyahu - Michael - Oprah 1980 . Dr Eliyahu Rips investigated a code in the Torah. (Malachi 4:5; Judges 6:8 )Malachi 4:5 states "Elijah" in the English KJV Bible, but in Hebrew this word is written as Eliyahu.Eliyahu = Eliyahu Rips. A match. Judges 6:8 should have read Judges 6:8,11, where 6:8 introduces a prophet named Elijah with 6:11 providing the associated characters that follow this prophet "an angel of the LORD, and sat under an oak which in Ophrah…and his son Gideon". Extract from "Ancient Chronicles Unsealed" (PPHC, 2003) used with permission In the Old Testament the sequence of a “prophet, angel, and his son” are described.Judges 6:8 “The LORD sent a prophet unto the children of Israel” Judges 6:11 “And there came an angel of the LORD, and sat under an oak which was in Ophrah…and his son Gideon.” Notes:The “prophet” refers to the “prophet Elijah” of Malachi 4:5 = Dr Eliyahu Rips. (a) The “angel” = the archangel Michael (Jude 1:9) = Michael Drosnin. Michael Drosnin has been given the titles of the Hebrew Messiah (OT) and the First Witness (NT).Hebrew word #424 “oak” is the feminine of word #352 which means ‘a chief or mighty man’.Word #6084 “Ophrah” is the feminine of word #6082 which means ‘fawn’. “Fawn” as a colour is a pale yellow-brown.Therefore “Ophrah” refers to a pale yellow-brown female chief or ‘mighty woman’. (b ) Hebrew word #1439 “Gideon” means ‘a feller’ (as in to cut down something). By association “his son Gideon” refers to the “Second Witness” of Revelations 11:3 who appears 1,260 days after Michael Drosnin’s book is published. Historical Search(a ) Did Michael Drosnin sit with a mighty yellow-brown woman called Ophrah ?Yes…Michael Drosnin subsequently appeared on the U.S. produced Oprah Winfrey Television Show and discussed his new book and the E.L.S. Bible code. (b ) Did someone who followed Michael Drosnin, cut him down, or cut the Code in the Bible down, or cut down something else to do with the Bible, on the derived date? 27 May 1998Ron Pegg discovered that the biblically described “Hebrew Messiah” and the “great Prince” of the Old Testament, and the “archangel Michael” and the “first witness” of the New Testament, all refer to the one same person; and that person was Michael Drosnin. 22 July 1998Ron Pegg discovered the described four beasts of Revelations 4:7 (the lion, the calf, the man, and the eagle wings) depicted on the map page of the Ancients "Map Scroll" (ancient Greek map or earth-disk). 1998The religious story associates the Theme of the 40 years of wandering in the wilderness with the “ten elders” of Ruth being witness to some redeeming knowledge.Ruth 4:2 “And he took ten men of the elders of the city, and said, Sit ye down here. And they sat down”.4:4 “…before the elders of my people…tell me, that I may know…And he said, I will redeem it”. Ruth 4:11 “And all the people that were in the gate, and the elders, said, We are witnesses”.Notes:(a ) In the 1950's a Czech rabbi, H.M.D. Weissmandel, found the first evidence of a code within the Book of Genesis. From a selected written Hebrew character (letter), if fifty letters were skipped and that letter was noted, with this being done three more times, these five noted letters spelled out the word 'Torah'. This code used an equidistant letter interval of 50. This same code extracted the word 'Torah' from the books of Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. [ more than a coincidence ! ] A limited edition book entitled Torat Hemed was published by Yeshiva Mt Kisko in 1958 that included a reference to this Bible ‘skip code’. (b ) David Kazhdan (Harvard’s top mathematician), I. Piatetski-Shapiro (a Yale mathematician), and two other famous mathematicians, Bernstein and Furstenberg, made a written statement in 1988 saying that “the results obtained are sufficiently striking to deserve a wide audience and to encourage further study”. Historical SearchThe “ten men of the elders” are all “kinsmen” who have a common interest. 1 1958 Weissmandel (did it all by hand). 4 1988 Kazhdan, Piatetski-Shapiro, Bernstein, Furstenberg (used a computer). 3 1994 Rips, Witztum, Rosenberg (Eliyahu – the prophet [the 3 wise men theme]). 1 1997 Michael Drosnin – the 1st witness 1 1998 Ron Pegg - the 2nd witness---10 1958 to 1998 is 40 years : the common theme (kinsmen) is codes within the Bible.Judges 6:8,11 speak of a prophet (Elijah), an angel (Michael: NT - First Witness) visiting Ophrah, and an un-named Son (NT - 2nd Witness). Eliyahu (Rips) introduced Michael (Drosnin) to the Bible Code who then appeared on the Oprah (Winfrey) Show. 3 matches of names and descriptions. ..Biblical 'End Time War' = 1991 PGW 1991 . Persian Gulf War. (Daniel 11:40-45)For reasons too complex to explain here (ie. the how and why), the Bible stories related in these verses refer to the events of the 1991 PGW. Extract from "Ancient Chronicles Unsealed" (PPHC, 2003) used with permissionThe Book of Daniel in the Old Testament:Daniel Chapter 11 gives four time frames; in verses; a) the appointed time; 11:29-39 b ) the former time; 11:2-4; c) the latter time; 11:5-8; d) the end time; 11:40-45, = the Persian Gulf War. The NIV Study Bible comments that; b ) the former time verses are about Persia and Greece; and c) the latter time verses are about Egypt and Syria. Pegg has found that; a) the appointed time of Daniel 11:29 is August 2 1990; and that verses 11:30-39 describes the result of 11:40; while d) the end time of Daniel 11:40 is the beginning date of the subsequent events described in verses 40-45; January 15 1991. Daniel 11:36-39 is about Saddam Hussein. He wanted the Gulf War to be the biblical Holy War, but Daniel 11:35 "because it is yet for a time appointed" and Matthew 24:22 indicate that it was not yet the right time. Biblical reference : Daniel 11:40a) "And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him; b ) and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; c) and he shall enter into the countries, d) and shall overflow e) and pass over." Notes :d) Hebrew word #7857 “overflow” means ‘to gush’ and by analogy ‘to conquer’.e) “Pass over” is Hebrew word #5674 which means ‘to cross over as in transition’ and gives provoke to anger. Historical Search :a) In July 1990 Kuwait annoys Iraq over oil production, and the United States conducts naval exercises in the Persian Gulf.b ) In July 1990 Iraq masses 30,000 troops and 200 tanks along Kuwait's border, ready for a quick invasion.c) Iraq entered and seized Kuwait on August 2 1990; Missiles enter the countries of Israel and Saudi Arabia. d) the massed troops of b ) entered Kuwait like a flood.e) the January 15 1991 deadline date was passed over. For Pegg's five page explanation of 33 extracted events you will have to read the research book PaRDeS, Book 1, pp149-153, Ron Pegg, 1999. Daniel 11:41-45 commentary. Extract from "A New Bible Commentary" (PPHC, 2005) used with permission11:41 is split into two segments:a) "He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of b ) his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon."Notes :a) In April 1990 Suddam Hussein threatened Israel with nerve gas and in July 1990 threatened to use force against other oil producing Arab nations. In October 1990 he threatened to use long range missiles against Israel.b ) These old named countries are now Jordan. Historical Search :a) First scud missile was fired into Israel on 18 January 1991.b ) The PLO aligned itself with Iraq in January 1991, with Jordan aligning itself with Iraq in February 1991.11:42-43"11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape"11:43 is split into two segments:a) "But he shall have power over the treasure of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the b ) Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps."Note :a) A combination of military debts and the reliance on middle east oil puts Egypt in a dependence situation. Historical Search :a) In September 1990 a request to the US Congress is made to reduce the military debt of Egypt due to Arab wars. In May 1991 $10.1 million is written off the debt.b ) In August 1990 Libya allies itself and votes with Iraq to reject the Arab resolution to send a pan-Arab force to protect Saudi Arabia. 11:4411:44 is split into four segments:a) "But tidings out of the east and b ) out of the north shall trouble him: c) therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and d) utterly to make away many."Note :d) Iraq invaded Kuwait but fired missiles against Israel, then attacked the Kurds and Shiites after the war. Historical Search :a) In September 1990 Israel and the Soviet Union agree to consular ties (which occurs in January 1991). On 9 September 1990 Mikhail Gorbachev and George Bush issue a joint warning to Iraq to leave Kuwait.b ) In August 1990 Turkey shuts down Iraq's oil pipeline. In October 1990 East and West Germany unite, and in January 1991 they give $670 million in military aid to Israel. In November 1990 Syria supports the use of force against Iraq to remove them from Kuwait.c) In September 1990 Suddam Hussein threatens Israel, and the oil installations in Saudi Arabia and other Arab states. He sets fire to 732 oil wells in Kuwait and surrounding areas from February 23 1991 as his forces retreated.d) i ) From 18 January to February 25 1991 Iraq fired 39 scud missiles into Israel. ii) After Iraq's troops left Kuwait, they attacked the Kurds (March 5) and the Shiite people (February 28 ). The Shiites were located near Basra. (This geographic location is indicated by Revelations 9:11 & 14.)11:4511:45 a "And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain" Search criteria: Key Words: "Tabernacles" means military tents. "the seas" refers to a mass (sea) of people. (Note the plural 'seas' ) Historical SearchThis Scripture describes "Operation Provide Comfort" (Apr 5) which was in response to the collapse of the Iraqi rebellions. 'In the mountains' of southern Turkey and northern Iraq from February 28 1991, two 'seas' of refugees fled the Iraqi troops. The Shiites of southern Iraq, and the Kurds of northern Iraq. The Americans set up shelters for them using 'military tents'. 11:45 b "yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." Historical Search :On March 3 1991 Iraq accepts the terms set by the United Nations to end the war. He was defeated. Only a few countries gave him minimal support during the conflict... Red Moon (Joel 2;31)The sun will be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of Yahweh comes. Now when did we see a blood red moon in the February and March of 1991?The sun turning black and the moon turning red are not associated events.In 1991 the Sun turned black in the Middle East due to the smoke from the oil fires.In 1999 in Australia, the Moon in the sky appeared a red colour. Historical SearchParaphrased extract from Ronald Pegg's personal diary notes in his PaRDeS booklet # 9.On page 58, he relates how on going to bed, he only had one outstanding astronomical Sign from the Bible to identify, being the red moon (moon into blood) from Joel 2:31.He awoke from a dream early in the morning, just in time to hear on the radio: "tonight (July 28 1999) at 7:52 the moon will have a partial eclipse, and it may appear a reddish colour due to moisture, dust or smoke in the atmosphere".I viewed this same eclipse - and the moon did in fact appear reddish in colour from where I observed it... Revelations 12:1-4 Explained If you have read my website then you may be aware that John (of Patmos) was shown three modern cd-roms by a time traveller who was showing him and warning him of future historical and astronomical events. Here is an extract from A New Bible Commentary - Ezekiel, Daniel, and Revelations (PPHC 2005) used with permissionRevelations Chapter 12In chapters 9 to 11 John has introduced the 1991 Persian Gulf War events as a Time reference to the activities of the two witnesses, culminating in the reaction of the nations to the second witness' revelations in the year 2000 concerning how the time traveller and the cd-roms were the cause of the world's religions. Now in this chapter astronomical events taken from the RedShift2 cd-rom are used to provide a Time reference for the first witness named Michael. When the Ancients cd-rom was being viewed "heaven" referred to the Sea and Sky background image of the Voyage screen. Now in this astronomical cd-rom "heaven" refers to the night sky full of stars - which is the background image for this cd-rom's presentations.12:1"12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:" The "wonder in heaven" = the PHOTO GALLERY window that appears over the starry sky of the computer's monitor.The "woman" as an association refers to "Venus" who was a Roman goddess, and on this cd-rom she is a planet - Venus. Also, on this astronomical cd-rom, it is a woman's voice that gives us a guided tour in the formation of planets presentation (in contrast to the male voice from both the Ancients and Grolier cd-roms)."clothed" means to cover over. "under" means underneath."woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet" = the sun over a woman (Venus), and the moon under her. John has named the listed Headings in the order relative to a planet as seen in the Photo Gallery's Solar System Menu (see chart on next page) and has taught us how he describes various underlined Headings from the list. "her head" means 'her Heading' (which is described in 12:2).Greek word 4735 "crown" means 'to twine'. "Twine" is a 'cord of strands' and is the best way John could describe a vertical string of images. (The images from the Ancients cd-rom appeared horizontally in their own window.)"Upon her head a crown of twelve stars" = look at "her Heading" to view 12 photographs (of stars). 12:2"12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered." This next "she" is to whom the "her" from 12:1 refers. "being with child" infers small offsprings; and in the astronomical context - comet pieces."in birth" is the theme explaining the formation of planets and comets that is seen in the Guided Tour presentation. (ie. a travelling comet in pieces.)"delivered" means to bring forth. The 12th underlined combined Headings (both main and sub-headings) on the Solar System menu = Impact of Comet SL9. Within this presentation there are 12 photographs. 12:3"12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads." "another wonder" is a further vision that John had never seen before; a big red planet."in heaven" is the starry screen which is the background to all the picture menus."red" is the colour of the planet Jupiter in the first photograph from the Jupiter Heading."a dragon" is a large reptile, breathing out fire and smoke. John associates the dinosaur and flames from the animated movie from the "Guided Tours" animation with the reddish brown spot on the surface of Jupiter (that looks somewhat like the fiery breath of a dragon)."seven heads" means the 7th heading. Jupiter is the 7th main Heading."ten horns" means 10 photographs. In the Jupiter presentation there are 10 photographs. "his heads" means 'his Heading' (which is described in 12:4)."seven crowns upon his heads" = look at "his Heading" to view 7 photographs. 12:4"12:4a And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman " This is to whom the "his" refers (from 12:3)."his tail" is the comet's tail. "cast them to the earth" is the impact with the planet Jupiter.This is describing the Comet SL9 itself. Scrolling down the screen to the 12th main Heading of Comets we come across a separate sub-heading for Comet Shoemaker-Levy9."The third part" = the third underlined Heading inclusive but not Comets itself.Within the Comet Shoemaker-Levy9 presentation (his head) there are 7 photographs (ie. the 7 crowns from 12:3)."His tail drew...cast them to the earth" = the photographs of the impacts."and the dragon stood before the woman" = the image of the dragon (dinosaur) was seen before the Venus Heading was viewed. On the next page is an extraction of the PHOTO GALLERY window (showing headings and sub-headings).All the headings are blue and underlined in blue except "Earth" which is black and not underlined. (Heading and Sub-Heading numbers {and comments} have been included for reference.) In Revelations 12:1-4a John describes images from the RedShift2 CD-Rom…On the computer screen you will see a night sky full of stars. Select the "Dictionary of Astronomy" from the menu bar, then type "Jupiter" (pressing 'return') to run the Formation of Planets movie which includes comets impacting with planets, an erupting volcano, and a dinosaur. In the PHOTO GALLERY window observe the Venus heading between the Sun (above), and the Moon (below). Select the Impact of Comet SL9 heading and view the 12 photographs. Then from the Photo Gallery, select the 7th heading (Jupiter) and view the 10 photos. To see the comet's 7 photos select the Comet Shoemaker-levy 9 heading. "12:4b and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born." The "dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered" = the Time when the comet SML-9 was about to be delivered (broken into pieces by gravity) due to the planet Jupiter (the brown spot image, "fiery red dragon" ), being July 1992. This is the comparable Sign (astronomical date) to when Michael Drosnin was first told about the Bible Code (being on 28 June 1992).The word "woman" is now applied to the context of 'a mother', being one who gives birth. 12:5"12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne." "And she brought forth a man child" = when Michael Drosnin published his Bible Code book in May 1997."who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron" = the discovery of a code in the Bible was meant to show the world the Bible was not what we had been led to believe, with Michael Drosnin being the "who" that was meant to show all nations this information. "her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne" = Michael Drosnin was personally 'caught up' in the "God" myth and the religious teachings of the Bible himself. This is seen in his second Bible Code book where he tells of his quest to find obscure "obelisks" near the Dead Sea in the Middle East based upon the plain text meanings of the Bible's words rather than the E.L.S. encoded messages. First, in the context of Headings from the RedShift2 cd-rom, the "woman" referred to the planet Venus.Then the word "woman" was associated with the comet SML-9 breaking into pieces (ready to be delivered) and changed context to that of a woman giving birth - which made that astronomical event a datable Sign for the 'birth' of Michael Drosnin to the Bible code idea. Next John further utilizes the word "woman" to associate to a religious context... Comets and the Witnesses July 1994 . Comet ShoemakerLevy9 hits Jupiter. (Revelations 12:3-4) The first thing that occurs to me is WHY the bible would prophecise this event. Lets face it it was hardly a defining moment in the history of the worldWorld history - yes.BUT in astronomical terms it was the biggest and closest celestial event in history - and thus it was used as a marker (ie. a datable event) when the associated event of Dr Eliyahu Rips occurred (ie. his paper on the ELS Code)...Extract from "Ancient Chronicles Unsealed" (PPHC 2003) used with permissionThe New Testament religious story is of two biblical witnesses. One of them (as told to John in a “vision” by an angelic messenger) is to “measures the Temple”.Revelations 11:1 “The angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God”.Revelations 11:3 “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy 1,260 days” But there is a sequence of events and associated Astronomical Signs leading up to and surrounding these two witnesses that are described in Revelations. 1) “a wonder in heaven” (12:1) is associated with a “child travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.” (12:2). 2) “a great wonder that cast the tail of the stars to the ground” (12:3-4) is the same event as the “star that fell from heaven” which is associated with the “key of the bottomless pit” ( 9:1). 3) Then associated with that “bottomless pit” are the “false accusers (Devil) and the adversaries (Satan) that are shut up for a 1,000 years” (20:2-3). 4) “And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven” (Matthew 24:30) refers to the “war in heaven” that “Michael and his angels” begin (12:7). In reference to this “Son of Man” “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him” (1:7). 5) This “man child” who was “brought forth” (12:5) is followed by a period of 1,260 days (12:6), which is also the “42 months” period between the two witnesses of 11:2, and during which the ‘critics’ (ie. those who worship the dragon and the “beast” and who were shut up in 20:2-3) “speak great things and blasphemies for 42 months” (13:4-5). 6) The second Witness appears after those 42 months (11:2). The dates of these astronomical Signs and their associated biblical “persons” link to historical people within a month (in the same year).Historical Search1) In July 1992 the Comet Shoemaker-Levy-9 was broken into 21 pieces by the gravity of the planet Jupiter.In June 1992 Michael Drosnin was “born” (introduced) to the E.L.S. code in the Bible. 2)In July 1994 the comet Shoemaker-Levy-9 “fell from the sky” and impacted Jupiter.In August 1994 Dr Eliyahu Rips et al found the “key” and proved the E.L.S. code as real. 3) (Years can represent days) 1,000 days is 2 years and 9 months. Start point – August 1994. 1994 plus 2 years = 1996; August plus 9 months = May the next year; thus May 1997. During this time the critics of the E.L.S. Bible code could not discredit its mathematics. 4) In April 1997 the Comet Hale-Bopp was seen in the sky with the naked eye (clouds 1:7).In May 1997 Michael Drosnin’s The Bible Code book was published.(If this was the Christian second coming, then it would have said “Son of God”, not ‘man’.) 5) As soon as people began to read about the “hidden history” in the Book of Genesis from the Bible they disputed the existence of the E.L.S. code, plus the manner in which Drosnin used it, plus his results etc. because it went against their preconceived beliefs. Those findings were unheralded and totally unexpected. 6) 42 months is 1,260 days. In this time there are 3 years 5 months and 11 days, made up of 1,096 days (365x3 +1 leap day) + 153 days (M,J,J,A,S as 31+30+31+31+30) + 11 days. Start point May 1st 1997. 1997 plus 3 years and five months = October 2000, plus the 11 days inclusive gives October 11th. [ May 31st would derive November 10th. ] As five of the six biblical descriptions have matched to actual historical and astronomical events and data, then somewhere between October 11th and November 10th 2000 the Second Witness is to appear. He is to “measure the Temple” (Rev 11:1) and provide another “testimony” (Rev 11:7). .. It seems clear in Revelations that 666 is the number of a man, and not a network.This is one of Ronald Pegg's 'anachronisms' - where a description can refer to more than one event. Next is the primary meaning represented by John's words of warning in Revelations 13:18. .. Mark - the 666 Beast - Identified Furthermore, I'm having a difficult time why a person from the 20th century would want to travel back in time to encrypt a message that basically states that God does not exist, in a language that would be alien to anyone in that time.You have an excellent grasp of why, using time travel, we can NOT just go back and stop an original event from occurring. It is encrypted - and alien to anyone in that time - so that we (ie. you and me, and everyone else - and in particular the world's societies and civilizations) will not be changed or deleted by the people of those ancient times being aware that what they are persuing as a "religion"- is false. Go back and change history, or if history was changed 'back then' - then you and I may not be having this discussion. Q: "why a person from the 20th century would want to travel back in time" A: to finally correct the 'mistakes' that formed the various sprouted religions. It seems clear in Revelations that 666 is the number of a man, and not a network. Here is the primary meaning represented by John's words of warning in Revelations 13:18. If you have read my website then you may be aware that John (of Patmos) was shown a modern cd-rom by a time traveller who was showing him and warning him of future 'religious' events. It will also come as a shock to many to discover that the "Beast" = the LAMB (and by association Christianity).John specifically says "Behold the Lamb of God" (John 1:29,36).This is referring to the 'Lamb of the gods' - being the coastal outline of the map from the main Menu Page from the Ancients cd-rom. (This is explained on the website.) Here is an extract from A New Bible Commentary - Ezekiel, Daniel, and Revelations (PPHC 2005) used with permissionRevelations Chapter 13John now uses the imagery and some history from the Ancients cd-rom to explain certain religions that were formed. 13:113:1a "And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads…" The "sea" = the watery Voyage screen of the Ancients cd-rom. The "sand" = the landmass of the Map page."I stood upon the sand of the sea" = John was viewing the Map page.He "saw a beast rise up out of the sea " = the coastal outline of the Mediterranean Sea on the Map page that forms an image of a Lamb (with its legs tied together, at the back and front, ready for sacrifice*)."having seven heads" = the seven associated icons (Headings) on the Map page. * The blue Sea forms the shape of a Lamb. The Mediterranean Sea is its body, with the Black Sea its head (with ears). The Red Sea forms its front legs tied together, with the sea between Spain and Africa forming its rear legs tied together. 13:8"13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." John changes his narration to the future tense and explains how the Lamb's Church (the beast) will try to make everyone who is not of the Christian Faith worship him (Jesus, the Lamb ), including those people who have worshipped another religion since the "creation" (foundation) of the religious world (ie. the Hebrew faithful). "in the book of life of the Lamb" = the Christian Bible. Particularly the Gospel accounts of the Life of the Lamb (Jesus). 13:9"13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear." In verse 13:4 John used the word "saying" to let us know he was relating important information in his words. He now affirms this by telling us to 'listen' to what he is relating. He takes this further in 13:18 where he tells us to use our wisdom. 13:10"13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: He that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." The "He" refers to the leader of the Christian Church, who in the centuries after John's era was the Roman Emperor and then due to a change in title, during the Dark Ages the Pope, and in modern times the various charismatic evangelistic leaders of the Christian Denominations (who use modern psychological marketing techniques to convert people to Christianity instead of physical warfare). Word 161 "captivity" comes from word 164 which means 'a prisoner of war'."He that leadeth into captivity" refers to the religious aggression (wars) of the Roman Emperors and the inquisitions of the Roman Church to make people worship Christianity. Those people who lived through the persecution and converted to Christianity were in fact prisoners of a religious war."shall go into captivity" refers to the result of the 1997 to 2004 "war in heaven" by both witnesses, where this time it was the leaders of religions that are metaphysically taken prisoner by the Judgement of the evidence provided. Word 615 "killed" means 'to kill outright' (referring to those who did not want to convert to Christianity).Word 3162 "sword" figuratively means 'judicial punishment' (and may refer to the type of justice that the Church gave during the Dark Ages for not converting to Christianity)."must be killed with the sword" refers to the manner by which the religions will be killed outright, being the judicial punishment (ie. the biblical Judgement Day) that presents the origins and source of religions. I see the phrase "the pen is mightier than the sword" as an ironic reflection of how Ronald Pegg's work has ended the religious world 2,000 years after it was enforced upon the world by the swords of the Romans. Word 5281 "patience" means 'endurance'."Here is the patience and the faith of the saints" announces (hereafter, ie. verses 11-18 ) what was the cause of the faith and endurance of the Christian Church. 13:16"13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:" Word 1325 "to receive" means 'to give'."to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads" = to give the Catholic "Sign of the Cross". This ritual is liturgical or devotional in character, and traces a large cross from forehead to breast and from shoulder to shoulder. John's words of "right hand" and "forehead" specifically identify the ritual the priest makes at the foot of the altar when he commences Mass with the words: "In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti". At the beginning of Mass the celebrant makes the sign of the cross by placing his left hand extended under his breast; then raising his right to his forehead, which he touches with the extremities of his fingers, he says: In nomine Patris; then, touching his breast with the same hand, he says: et Filii; touching his left and right shoulders, he says; et Spiritus Sancti; and as he joins his hands again adds: Amen. 13:17"13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name." John is saying that no one can view the animated TRADE presentation (cf. 6:6) and make the Lamb 'live and speak' (cf. 13:15) unless he selects the number of his name (the 144K data file seen in 7:4), then the named beast (the dragon, being the serpent icon - the Capital for the Greek civilization), and then the mark (an etched icon) for the TRADE presentation in the Economics section.All this is seen when the Greek words are checked to [p]Strong's Concordance[/i] (1996 hardback version).Word 59 "buy" properly means 'to go to market'.Word 4453 "sell" means 'to barter (as a pedlar)' as in to trade.Word 1410 "might" means 'to be able'. "no man might buy or sell" = no man will be able to go to market or trade; and refers to the TRADE animated audio-visual presentation from the Economics heading of the Greek section. Word 5480 "mark" means 'an etching' or 'sculptured figure' (as in a statue), and refers to the Greek Capital icon which is a column (sculptured like a statue) that has two spirals etched on the top thereof. The "name of the beast" was first given in 12:7 as the "dragon" and generally represents Christianity, and has been associated with the (Lamb ) beast of 13:1 (the subject of this chapter). As a named animal shape from the Ancients cd-rom the "beast" = the Lamb (affirmed in 14:1), and as a specific "mark" the dragon icon = the spirally Capital of the Greek civilization. Without selecting the highlighted number of his name from the Windows File Manager Window, then the dragon icon, then the etched (drawn) mark of the TRADE icon, no one can make the Lamb figuratively animate and speak (as documented by John in 6:6). 13:18"13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six." "Here is wisdom" is announcing to look closely at what we have been told. Verse 13:10 announced that "what" caused the faith and endurance of the Christian Church was going to be described in subsequent verses. Here, now John explains "who" by using a word-play on the word 'mark'.The time traveller has told John how to make the Lamb of God animate and speak (from the Trade audio-visual), and in the previous verse John has hidden the name of the Gospel writer who saw and first spoke about this 'miracle'. Word 2192 "had" as a Greek idiom means 'to behold'. The "mark" as a man's name = Mark, and refers to the Gospel writer Mark."And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark" = no one can run the TRADE presentation except he that beheld (that presentation), the (writer) Mark. The "number of the beast" (ie. the Lamb ) is confirmed as 144,000 in 14:1 and pertains to the data file kilobyte figure for the Ancients cd-rom programme (as established in Revelations 7:4). The "number of the man…is 666" = Mark's number is 666. Using WisdomWhat mark, along with the number of his name being 666, is associated with the Lamb (beast) that was seen from the Ancients cd-rom, and has caused the Jesus Christ religion - due to his stories about Jesus (the Lamb ) coming to life and talking ? Although the first book of the New Testament is the Gospel of Matthew, chronologically the Gospel of Mark was the first written.In modern Bibles there are 678 verses accredited to his name, but upon investigation we find that verses 16:9-20 are later additions by another scribe. Mark's Gospel originally ended with 16:8 and this is attested by Clement, Origen, and Jerome (plus others), and Codex Sinaiticus, Codex Vaticanus, and Codex 304. Now that we understand this, let’s use our wisdom, and count the number of verses: 678 subtract 12 = 666 original verses written by Mark. John states Mark's Gospel by name and number as being the source of the Lamb of God stories that went on to bring into being the Greek then Roman types of Christianity (the Beast) based upon the stories about Jesus Christ (the Lamb ) - and the fact that the animated audio-visual presentations gave the impression that the Lamb (the man Jesus) came to life and actually spoke.ConclusionThe 'religious stories' about Jesus - the Lamb of god - are just a myth: based upon the imagery first seen by Paul (ca. 30 AD), and then by Mark and Mathew (58-68 AD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 yahweh? what kind of bible are you people reading?revelation 12:1 and there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: clothed with the sun= had on white clothesmoon under her feet= night time, clear skycrown of twelve stars= no roof over her head, just stars. remember there was no room in the inn, she was in a stable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damocles Posted October 11, 2005 Report Share Posted October 11, 2005 Religious interpretation by Eddy_P is nonstandard.....science statistically bogius. Conclusion? Cultist proslytyzing. Endit. Damocles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAHD Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 This is not the place to discuss Bible verses, CLOSED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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