Israel and Judah

[HydrogenBond]

The patriarch Abraham was later called Israel by God. Israel had ten sons and two grandsons all of which he gave land as inherance in the land of Israel. These became the twelve tribes of Israel. If one looks at Old Testament maps each tribe had a piece of the land of Israel, with Judah the partiarch of the Jews, occupying a large chunk more or less centered on Jerusalem. It would appear to me that maybe historians should begin to look for what became of the other eleven lost tribes and restore each to their inheritance. What I beleive will happen is that Jews, Gentiles and Arabs will all become brothers (and uncles) once again.

[rockytriton]

Again, I don't see the relevance to science here. Maybe I'm missing something.

[HydrogenBond]

What is the purpose of having a theology subject for a forum if one can not discuss theology?

[rockytriton]

it's to discuss theology as related to science. Such as differing oppinions on things like evolution and the creation of the universe. At least that's my understanding of the forum section. I don't think it's intended to discuss unrelated bible verses and such. Maybe I'm wrong though

[Tormod]

No, rockyt is correct. Theology is the study of religion. It is not intended as a bible study group - there are plenty of sites around the web for that. :)

[emessay]

Does anybody want to count how many word 'Israel sons' repeatedly mentioned in that holy books Torah, Old Testament, Bible, and Koran ? But why HATE are still in there, those who were being authorized on behalf of Abraham religions.

[niviene]

Huh?

[rockytriton]

yea, you totally lost me on that one.

[Calminian]

The patriarch Abraham was later called Israel by God.

 

Yikes, which Bible did you get this from? :)

 

Another question. Did Moses take only 2 of every kind of animal on the Ark?

[Qfwfq]

Theology is a topic of philosophy and doesn't mean discussion of Biblical and historical issues, although these may be relevant to some theological issues.

 

Did Moses take only 2 of every kind of animal on the Ark?

Moses took no animals on his ark, it was just big enough for little baby Moses. Noah was the one that took the animals.

[rockytriton]

Did Gilgamesh take animals on his Ark too? You know, the story that the Noah one was copied from.

[perfectWeakness129]

I think the point of the question is to point out that Abraham was not named Israel, Jacob was, and His twelf sons, Judah, Gad, Benjamine, Simeon, Issachar, Zebulun, Dan, Asher, Naphtali, Reuban, Ephraim, and Manasseh were the twelve tribes of Israel.

[HydrogenBond]

Thanks, my mistake. I rely too much on memory from a time when I did too much reading. I decided to take Walt Whitman's advice and forget it all and start thinking up my own ideas. With your kind correction in mind, the land of Israel was given as an inheritance to the twelve tribes. If this spiritual promise is important to Israel than the land needs to be restored to all twelves tribes. The tribes should to be researched and debated before any exchange of land.

[perfectWeakness129]

OK, lets take a moment and review the early-or.. late centuries of BC Israel History.

 

It all started way back when when (~2000 BC) God promised that His chosen would be the descendents of Abraham as long as they walked in the ways of the LORD (Origin of circumcision, ouch).

 

Around 950 bc, 1050 years later, after the Exodus from Egypt, Israel, which now inhabited much of western Mesopotamia, was loyal to the LORD under the rule of King David. He promised David the same thing he Promised Abraham, through his line would be His choosen people, also that through the line of David the world would see the Way. His son Solomon ruled successfully after his death, then everything went down the drain. God split the kingdom into two, Israel(Northern 10) and Judah(Southern 2). Israelites started joining in pagan worship of the surrounding nations and Israel strayed from God. His covenent with Abraham was not being upheld by their end of the bargin.

 

So, In ~710BC the LORD gave 10 of the 12 tribes over to the Assyrians (Holding Judah, David's tribe). So now the Assyrians have scattered, embread, and exiled all the Hebrews from northern Israel and all that was left where the sons of Judah(Jews). Hence they are known as the Lost 10 Tribes. So the geneology line, skipping many generations, is Abraham->Jacob(Israel)-> Judah-> David ->Solomon->Joseph ->Jesus. We see that, according to the Bible, all the promises of God have been faithfully fulfilled.

 

The happy ending to the story of course is that Judah, who never really came back to God, was allowed to be taken captive by Babylon ( ~538 BC ), where Daniel visited the Lions Den and His friends walked through the firey furnace. Then Judah was restored by the Persians, finally the Romans came and took over, installing Herods as planted Kings of Judah. Then AD came 4 years ealry, and the rest is, uh... history.

 

Weather you believe God was behind these events or not, the history is still very cool.

[HydrogenBond]

Isaiah prophesied the gathering of the tribes of Israel around 700BC.

[perfectWeakness129]

Do you happen to have a reference for that? I know he prophesied the redemption of Israel (the whole thing) and the rest of the world, which was fulfilled by Jesus. I must have missed the 'gathering' part.

 

I see in 11:11-12 God proclaims he will reclaim His CHOSEN remnant. In 49:5 Isaiah talks about gathering. Also, Isaiah 48:1 tells us that after the Babalonian exile (538) Israel referrs to the line of Judah that was preserved.

"Listen to this, O house of Jacob,

you who are called by the name of Israel

and come from the line of Judah,

you who take oaths in the name of the LORD

and invoke the God of Israel—

but not in truth or righteousness- "

All in all, I think that redemption and unity doesn't necissarily refer to political unification, but united under Christ. There is alot of contraversy about this though and I am in no place of authority on the matter.

[HydrogenBond]

Isaiah 43: ... I will bring your offstpring from the east, an dgather you from the west. I will say to north, give them up! And to the south do not hold them back. Bring my sons from afar, my daughters from the ends of the earth, everyone who is called by my name, and whom I have created for my glory, whom I have formed, even whom I have made.

 

As far as I know this has not happened yet.