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How about a discussion on open-source. Come on, the Computer Programming category needs some fire.

What's the future going to be? Linux? Or Microsoft? Maybe both will exist harmoniously?

Microsoft has started an open-source initiative with the .NET thingie, where you can write apps that are platform independent, sort of like java. Instead of the Java Virtual Machine, there's the .NET Framework.

How good is Linux and how is it going to take for Linux to reach home computers?

Judging from past history, Microsoft has incredibly managed to stave off numerable competitors like IBM,Netscape, Novell ... No reason it cannot beat Linux/Open-source. Perhaps, Gates will run out of ideas?

Come on you guys, why is it just cosmology?

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Well, it is mostly cosmology (and physics and astronomy) because that's what the Hypography forums were all about until Alex started this group just before Christmas. I guess it takes a while for each group to get rolling.

 

Frankly, I don't know much about Microsoft's .NET initiative, apart from the fact that it is a 30 megabyte install which I haven't cared to do on my PC.

 

I would like to use Linux but so far none of the apps I use regularly are available for it. I actually paid for a license for Mandrake Linux just because I couldn't be bothered to install everything myself. It worked fine on an old PC which is cool, but I had absolutely no use for it.

 

Here in Norway there is a volunteer initiativ group who have made something they call "school linux". They want all the schools in my city to start using it, since it's free. But the city council has an agreement with Microsoft that they can only use Windows on their PCs.

 

I think that is one example of where Linux should REALLY be taken into use, because the schools are extremely short of funding and if kids can learn how to use a word processor, surf the web, do maths etc I see absolutely no reason why they should be forced to use Microsoft products.

 

I expect to see both Microsoft and Linux live for a long while still. And there is a third OS up there, too: Macintosh OSX, which is using a UNIX core. I really like OSX, and use a Mac at work and a PC at home.

 

Just my 2c,

 

Tormod

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Can OSX be installed on a regular PC?

I've installed red hat linux alongside winXP, installation was smooth. but same with you, there's no use for consumers.

Anyway, pirated copies of windows and it's softwares are all over the place. just search warez. so it's not reallly an excuse that you dont have money to use windows.

isn't copyright law violated when the software is used for commercial purposes?

It's really for servers, they say it's more stable and secure compared to microsoft's.

I wonder how open-source is going to survive when everything's free? Who's going to invest money to develop good software when there's no money in return?

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OSX is Mac only...and fairly new Macs at that.

 

Copyright law is usually violated the instant you install a product you don't own. What open source is all about, is to provide users with software which is free of charge as long as you follow certain rules. The point is that some people think this will let software evolve in a more user-friendly way, because the commercial aspects of a product is not so strong.

 

http://www.opensource.org/

 

Open source has nothing to do with program being pirated or not - it is still possible to violate the rules of an open source program and thus use it illegally.

 

I think open source is a natural extension of "shareware", but it allows many developers to participate on developing the same product.

 

Tormod

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Open Source is to software what Socialism is to politics. Everyone owns/ has acccess to it and adds what they can merely for the benefit of the community. It represents the future of software, Superdistribution. Revenue for open source comes from custom development/ implementation/ support rather than from initial sales. I use Mozilla, the open source version of Netscape, for browser. We have a red hat server operation in house for custom mysql database we are developing internally. I use Staroffice on my workstation.

 

It is time to end Microsoft's strangle hold on the software industry. Their model of overpriced but poorly written code that you use, but DO NOT OWN needs to be kicked to the curb. To charge tech support to be told you have to BUY patches to fix THEIR problems! To have them strangle GOOD software and force companies out of biz. When things like Outlook is such crap!

 

The only thing holding Linux type OS back is applications. Openoffice is OK, but not there yet. Full compatibility with .doc files is a market issue. Once these issues get resolved, hello open source!

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Tinny - I suspect you don't know much about computer programming...?

 

By helping build better software for the good of the community, every developer get better tools with which they can build commercial sites for customers and make money on that. This can keep prices down for everyone involved, it makes it easier for developers to get good software (and can often make do with lower-spec hardware), and it makes it easier to integrate different solutions because they are built using standard methods.

 

So by "helping others" each developer is also helping themselves. It does not mean they do everything for free!

 

Tormod

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would they develop it in a team that interact very closely, with leaders to give directions? would they do it full-time or just when they feel like it?

sorry if this is ridiculous. i'm only using imagination, no reading and looking up facts...

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  • 3 months later...

Tinny, you might consider researching either of the two major Linux desktop platforms, GNOME or KDE for solid examples of open-source frameworks allowing individuals to contribute their applications - each application being both unique and completely integrateable to the desktop as a whole.

 

A better implementation of the .Net framework is the Mono Project, started by Ximian, bought by Novell, and currently maturing at an amazing rate (http://www.mono-project.com)

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Actually, if you ask me, i'd say that the .NET framework stinks. I think that this is another one of Microsoft's hopeless attempts to separate itself from the rest of the market. Do you realize that programs written in any .NET language will only be able to run on the machines that run Windows with .NET platform installed. Although windows is for now the most commonly used OS, you will find that most hackers (meaning really good programmers) at home prefer Linux or Free BSD to any microsoft product. Also I think that C# and J# and VB .net (all) are going to die by not being used, with programmers moving away even from such language as Java and go more towards Python. I mean modern day hacker if given a choice between java and python would 99% of time choose python and would not use java unless they have to.

Anyways back to open-source, there was some talk from microsoft of developing an open scource OS, I dont know whether they will rewrite Longhorh again and make it open scource, but i shure hope that they do something to get themselves more towards linux. Throughout the years microsoft operating systems have been going more toward Macs. I think that they need to break away from their initial path and move more toward the future as seen by hackers, the least known, but most pushing it to the limit computer users...

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from alexander:

I think that this is another one of Microsoft's hopeless attempts to separate itself from the rest of the market. Do you realize that programs written in any .NET language will only be able to run on the machines that run Windows with .NET platform installed

Just like Flash animations can only be viewed if the plug-in is installed. but overtime, almost everybody now has the plug-in. this is probably because they want to view or use the animation. same thing with .net: when someone finds the programs are interesting, they will install the .net framework on the computer. just like flash player, it is free.

Also I think that C# and J# and VB .net (all) are going to die by not being used, with programmers moving away even from such language as Java and go more towards Python. I mean modern day hacker if given a choice between java and python would 99% of time choose python and would not use java unless they have to

why do you have to relate it to hackers all the time? From past experience, nothing beats the ease of use and user-friendliness of vb.net and c#.net . It's great when used with the visual studio .net editor. and added with the functionality of the code being able to be transferred on the internet (ASP.NET), it's unbeatable.

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tinny said:

they will install the .net framework on the computer. just like flash player, it is free.

Well, Microsoft still hasnt developed a .NET framework for open scource OSs yet, there have been some headlines of them developing it, but i havent seen a version of one yet on the net.

why do you have to relate it to hackers all the time? From past experience, nothing beats the ease of use and user-friendliness of vb.net and c#.net ...

and added with the functionality of the code being able to be transferred on the internet (ASP.NET)

I relate to hackers because they are very good programmer, obviously you havent read the entire post because i clearly said that when i say hackers i mean an experienced and well known programmer. And as to easiness, i dont like VB especially .net, they make big programs run slowly, and as to ASP, that is probably the slowest running programming language on the net today, there are better ways of doing things than through ASP. Take PHP for example, or if you need the entire package go to JAVA which'll do everything; the inet interface and regular programs for you, and in this case Python which has its own web interface and you dont even need to switch languages in order to interface both with a network and you dont have noncompatability issues anywhere...

Why are you stuck on Microsoft products, there are better things in life then Windows...

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frankly, I'm not a serious programmer. Just doing fairly simple database programs and a few games here and then. so, vb.net, c#.net and asp.net would suffice. and I think a lot of people agree too. I can still make money part-time doing small applications for students who are doing some sort of project or factories that need to manage their resources. seriously, the only factor i take into consideration is ease of use, saves an awful lot of time. I think this is what propelled vb as the most widely used language in the world. Now, Microsoft has just gone a step further with OOP for vb.net and all the other jargon that I hardly understand or even bother. But in comparison, .net is a big improvement compared to vb and asp.

 

I dont bother about all those details with PHP and Java which everybody says is unbeatable. I just use what suits me best. so far, asp.net has the capabilities of PHP, plus the ease of use and my familiarity with vb

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think that this is another one of Microsoft's hopeless attempts to separate itself from the rest of the market. Do you realize that programs written in any .NET language will only be able to run on the machines that run Windows with .NET platform installed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Just like Flash animations can only be viewed if the plug-in is installed. but overtime, almost everybody now has the plug-in. this is probably because they want to view or use the animation. same thing with .net: when someone finds the programs are interesting, they will install the .net framework on the computer. just like flash player, it is free.

 

And .NET XML Web Services can be consumed by programs regardless of platform, an platforms are irrelevant for ASP.NET Web apps too. The restriction of Windows-only applies to Windows Forms applications, which are becoming the minority of apps ("everyone" is moving their apps to the web).

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Originally posted by: Freethinker

I use Mozilla, the open source version of Netscape, for browser. We have a red hat server operation in house for custom mysql database we are developing internally. I use Staroffice on my workstation.

 

 

I downloaded a copy of this mozilla browser after reading this (the firefox version) and my first impressions of it is, i'm going to keep using it. Not sure how to reprogram it with the open-source option, not even sure where this option is but hey, time will tell.

 

Is 'staroffice' an OS?

 

With regard to using other software not from MS (such as XP etc.,), will applications that say "Operating System = 95/98/me/2000/xp" run on other operating systems such as linux? Or is that what the open source thing is all about so you can program it to run what you like?

 

Just going to buy a new system soon and i want to get it all right this time (just trying to get as much knowledge as possible).

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