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So, I went to the hospital today. This is a Huge hospital, capable of taking care of thousands of patients. I just went to get a two-month supply of the meds I need to take for my service-connected disabilities, mainly related to disability from severe burns.

 

This isn’t a VA hospital; thanks to President Trump, Vets now have the choice to visit other hospitals and at no charge if it is for service-connected conditions.

 

Anyway, it is Huge and normally crowded, but today it was almost empty. There were checks at the door, hand washing, masks and temperature checks, but not a problem.

 

I saw my Dr and did not have to wait at all, as the large waiting room was empty.

I asked him “How many covid patients do you have here”

He didn’t want to answer, but we are like old friends so he told me, in hushed tones ‘We have ten covid patients. One was on a ventilator for three days but he is OK now and going home soon.”

 

I just nodded and didn’t say anything.

 

At the cashier, there are many chairs and usually many people waiting. Today, there was no one else but me. I signed my papers and received my meds and was on my way.

 

On the way out I may have spotted at the most 5 or 6 other patients walking around, not covid.

 

This hospital must be losing many thousands of dollars every day.

There are NO patients!

 

I am not going to name the hospital or the city, but it is in a State not far from upstate New York.

 

So, NYC is overflowing with dead bodies and this hospital has no patients?

 

I know a Lot of people, both professionally and socially and I don’t know a single person who has or has had covid.

Not a single person with a confirmed case.  Draw your own conclusions, I have drawn mine.

 

Well there is according to the stats produced 622000 detected cases in America, https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/?utm_campaign=homeAdvegas1?%20 over 2000000 world wide. I guess the only sure way for you to find out is go to New York and check it out. 

 

In the UK there are Hospitals allocated for normal patients/casulaties and others for corona virus victims. My sister works in a none corona virus hospital and she is quite also only one operation yesterday.   

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But please, don't .  City people always bring their troubles with them and the countryside vanishes.  First they complain about the dusty and muddy roads and demand pavement, then they complain about

Ocean, this is kinda wrong to blame on chinese, it could have happened anywhere and anytime. Let me explain by copy-pasting a reply of a friend of mine to a fb-petition asking to ban live animal marke

While I agree that we are all going to be infected at some time or other, I don't agree with your statement that there is a 3% mortality rate average over the entire population. There is no way that a

 

 

I know a Lot of people, both professionally and socially and I don’t know a single person who has or has had covid.

Not a single person with a confirmed case.  Draw your own conclusions, I have drawn mine.

My wife is a medical assistant, working in a medical office connected to a hospital.  A couple of weeks ago they had 4 patients admitted to the small hospital in isolation who were from a nursing home.  They were sick, but not sick enough to need to be admitted  except they had to be quarantined and the nursing home wouldn't take them back.

 

I do know someone who had all of the symptoms of covid 19, but they would not test him because of a shortage of testing materials.  They were saving the tests for those who were sick enough that they needed hospital care.  They sent him home with the instructions to self quarantine.

 

Where my wife works, they are not seeing many patients in person, but are doing video conferencing with patients instead.  Perhaps some good will come out of this situation, as the doctors find other ways to care for and consult with their patients.

 

Now I just remembered that someone I only know through facebook who is a dairy farmer was very sick, but again, they would not test him for the coronavirus due to a shortage of tests.  The way he described it, it sounded horrible.  He self quarantined from his family and the farm.  He was unable to work, and because I am a fellow dairy farmer, I know how much it takes to keep one of my kind from working. 

 

This is why I find it hard to believe that they are overstating the numbers.  Given that they are not even testing everyone who is really sick, I can only conclude that the actual number of cases must be higher.  

Edited by Farming guy
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I can only conclude the actual number of covid deaths must be much lower than what is being reported.

 

It seems people have totally forgotten about the good old flu:

 

"While the public deals with the spread of the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) to New York State and major regions of the United States, flu season remains underway with the latest data being reported by the CDC.

 

So far this season, the CDC estimates between 39 million and 55 million flu illnesses, at least 400,000 hospitalizations, and as many as 63,000 deaths from flu, of which 162 are pediatric"

 

 

I think NYC is not even reporting on flu-related deaths any more, just assuming all such deaths as covid-related.

They just "found" another 2,000 "probable" covid deaths! Where did they steal these bodies from? It would be comical if it wasn't so serious.

NYC is almost single-handedly driving the numbers for covid deaths in the entire US. Why is that? NYC is the democrat power house, all of the main stream democrat controlled media are HQed there. The democrats are using the covid pandemic as a political weapon to try and drive out Trump.

 

Yeah, I know, "conspiracy theory" and all that guff, but there is no other way to explain what is happening there.

 

The other day CNN was showing footage of people being buried in a mass grave on Hart Island, in the Long Island Sound. I know the place, we used to have Nike missile batteries there. NYC and surrounding area has been using that island to bury unclaimed dead for about a century. It is estimated there are over one million bodies buried there. There is a weekly scheduled detail for inmates from Rikers Island prison to go over and bury these unclaimed dead, who die from all sorts of reasons.

But suddenly, it is Big News from CNN and other left wing lame stream news outlets that Coronavirus Deaths overflowing! Mass Graves being dug in NYC Parks!

 

It is all bullshit and it is time NYC was called out on these tactics.

Edited by OceanBreeze
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I can only conclude the actual number of covid deaths must be much lower than what is being reported.

 

 

 

As far as death rate as a percentage of cases, I suspect that the death rate is lower.  What I never understood was Trump's unwillingness to test aggressively early on.  I have little doubt, when you consider how many people show little or no symptoms, that covid - 19 is likely much more widespread, and the death rate lower.  

 

I can't speak about New York City, but where my wife works, they test everyone with symptoms for the flu first, and then only test for covid - 19 if the patient does not have the flu, and they need to be admitted to the hospital.

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I can only conclude the actual number of covid deaths must be much lower than what is being reported.

 

 

 

I strongly suspect that is wishful thinking. When the outbreak started in China it was widely reported that the death rate was much higher, with many people dyeing at home not being tested. 

 

Here is a link on how the stats on the worldometer site are collected https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/about/

 

In the interests of sanity I will believe the experts.

 

You estimated a worst case death rate in the US of 40000 a few pages back, do you still hold with that estimate.

 

At the time I posted this morning there are a reported almost 35000 deaths from covid-19 in the states with 678000 cases detected. 

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With NYC jacking up the numbers, there was no way my estimate could ever hold.

 

Look, they went from 1,535 on April 13, to 6,185 on April 14, and back down to 2,618 on April 16.

 

If you believe those numbers, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you are probably interested in buying.

 

If the curve was allowed to follow the course it was on at April 13, there was a reasonable chance that 40,000 estimate would not have been far off. I hope you don’t cheer too loud when 40,000 is passed by; those are human lives and not just numbers.

 

Meanwhile, the CDC estimates between 39 million and 55 million flu illnesses, at least 400,000 hospitalizations, and as many as 63,000 deaths from flu, of which 162 are pediatric, this season. This happens every year and we don’t shut the country down and destroy the economy.

 

As I posted earlier, there is no conceivable way that NYC can be driving the numbers for the entire nation other than blatant manipulation, such as counting practically every death from any cause as a covid death, for political purposes.

 

As for the experts, here is what the great Dr Fauci was saying on Jan 26:

 

“It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Fauci said during an interview with radio show host John Catsimatidis.

"But it's something that we as public health officials need to take very seriously... It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about. Because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]. And we have ways of responding - like we did with this one case in Seattle, Washington, who had traveled to China and brought back the infection."

 

Despite that sort of advice from his top infectious disease expert, just 5 days later, on Jan 31, President Trump implemented a travel ban on China. And now the liberals hold Fauci in great esteem while slamming Trump for acting too slow!

 

Then, on 15 March, Dr. Anthony Fauci, the National Institutes of Health’s infectious diseases chief, on Sunday said it’s “possible” the nation would experience a reported “worst-case scenario” of up to 1.7 million deaths from the coronavirus outbreak.

 

He later dialed that back to 100,000 – 250,000.

 

Against such contrasting opinions like that from the experts, my estimate doesn't look all that bad.

Is it any wonder Trump has a difficult time formulating a response with those sort of expert opinions?

Maybe he would have been better off doing nothing, as Obama did in 2009 with the swine flu.

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As for the experts, here is what the great Dr Fauci was saying on Jan 26:

 

“It's a very, very low risk to the United States," Fauci said during an interview with radio show host John Catsimatidis.

"But it's something that we as public health officials need to take very seriously... It isn't something the American public needs to worry about or be frightened about. Because we have ways of preparing and screening of people coming in [from China]. And we have ways of responding - like we did with this one case in Seattle, Washington, who had traveled to China and brought back the infection."

 

There was an assumption in this quote about preparing and screening people coming in from China, which proved to be a fatal error.  We were not screening everyone who had traveled to China, except to take their temperature..

 

Congress was briefed  about  how potentially damaging covid-19 was looking on January 29, and I find it hard to believe that Trump had not received the same information as Congress, and several Congress members took it so seriously that they began to dump stock before the stock market crashed.  The worst of these offenders , in my opinion was Richard Burr, who publicly downplayed the threat while telling his connected supporters the exact opposite. 

 

I am one of those conservatives who opposes Trump for conservative reasons, but as bad as I think Trump is, those members of Congress who engaged in that sort of insider trading are far worse than Trump.

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Meanwhile, the CDC estimates between 39 million and 55 million flu illnesses, at least 400,000 hospitalizations, and as many as 63,000 deaths from flu, of which 162 are pediatric, this season. This happens every year and we don’t shut the country down and destroy the economy.

 

The economy was going to be harmed anyway.  Covid-19 is much more contagious than flu. The outbreak of covid-19 at the Smithfield meatpacking plant, for example, has infected 600 workers and forced the plant to shut down.  That never happened with flu. 

 

Perhaps if we had not spent the last century focusing on efficiency and vertical integration of all of our industries our economy  would not have proven so vulnerable.  Smaller meat packers spread out across the country would both employ more workers,and make our food systems more resilient.

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With NYC jacking up the numbers, there was no way my estimate could ever hold.

 

Look, they went from 1,535 on April 13, to 6,185 on April 14, and back down to 2,618 on April 16.

 

If you believe those numbers, I have a bridge in Brooklyn you are probably interested in buying.

 

If the curve was allowed to follow the course it was on at April 13, there was a reasonable chance that 40,000 estimate would not have been far off. I hope you don’t cheer too loud when 40,000 is passed by; those are human lives and not just numbers.

 

The numbers are constantly being corrected, what is wrong with that? If they were found to be wrong and not corrected it would be a problem.

 

Why would I want a bridge, does it float :)

 

The number of deaths from covid-19 is difficult to predict. Based on the positively identified infected with covid-19 in the states today, I would make a stab at 60000 to 80000 dead based on figures coming out of other countries. Germany seems to have the lowest death rate, with Italy taking the lead position. The numbers could be a lot higher.

 

China seems to be having another outbreak, which shows the virus is not going away anytime soon. 

 

The only way to get rid of this virus is to get a vaccine. Once you have had corona you have a resistance, but that doesnt last, and you can be reinfected. 

 

Those predicted 65000 flu deaths this year assume the flu is allowed to spread normally, without exercising social separation. IF the corona virus is allowed to spread in the same way, what would be the death rate then. It is looking like in the states the corona virus is going to get close to 65000 in the next month. 

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What have you got against Pagans ? 

 

"Pagan comes from a Latin word paganus, meaning villager, rustic, civilian, and itself comes from a pāgus which refers to a small unit of land in a rural district."

 

The word is now used to mean something disaproved of

pagan

/ˈpeɪɡ(ə)n/
 
noun
 
  1. a person holding religious beliefs other than those of the main world religions.
    "a Muslim majority had to live in close proximity to large communities of Christians and pagans"
     
    •  
adjective
 
  1. relating to pagans or their beliefs.
    "a pagan god"

 

I was being sarcastic. :rofl:  I am very aware of that and I can even consider myself more Pagan then anything if I had to place myself in a catagory. Funny story, I told my mom I was Pagan once and she flipped out because she is ignorant when it comes to these things no matter what I tell her. :lol:

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Isn't everyone?  The worship of material wealth is a form of idolatry, and many Christian traditions are rooted in pagan rituals. :xmas_tree:   

That is very true. Yes the Christian religion is and I could name a few just off the top of my head besides the Christmas tree. The ironic thing is most Christians don't even see that and they will do Pagan rituals while saying they hate pagans and put them down. I seen it first hand when I was a teenager. :lol:

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So, I went to the hospital today. This is a Huge hospital, capable of taking care of thousands of patients. I just went to get a two-month supply of the meds I need to take for my service-connected disabilities, mainly related to disability from severe burns.

 

This isn’t a VA hospital; thanks to President Trump, Vets now have the choice to visit other hospitals and at no charge if it is for service-connected conditions.

 

Anyway, it is Huge and normally crowded, but today it was almost empty. There were checks at the door, hand washing, masks and temperature checks, but not a problem.

 

I saw my Dr and did not have to wait at all, as the large waiting room was empty.

I asked him “How many covid patients do you have here”

He didn’t want to answer, but we are like old friends so he told me, in hushed tones ‘We have ten covid patients. One was on a ventilator for three days but he is OK now and going home soon.”

 

I just nodded and didn’t say anything.

 

At the cashier, there are many chairs and usually many people waiting. Today, there was no one else but me. I signed my papers and received my meds and was on my way.

 

On the way out I may have spotted at the most 5 or 6 other patients walking around, not covid.

 

This hospital must be losing many thousands of dollars every day.

There are NO patients!

 

I am not going to name the hospital or the city, but it is in a State not far from upstate New York.

 

So, NYC is overflowing with dead bodies and this hospital has no patients?

 

I know a Lot of people, both professionally and socially and I don’t know a single person who has or has had covid.

Not a single person with a confirmed case.  Draw your own conclusions, I have drawn mine.

At one time before Obama they would treat everything for free in the VA even if it wasn't  service connected. I thought I had polyps once so they did a colonoscopy free of charge. Now I can only go without getting charged if it is for my knee. 

 

Nurses are getting laid off that is for sure my mom is a nurse and she is laid off right now also. Like you said in my example my girlfriend went to the hospital the other day just to get a prescription and they made her wear a mask and get her temperature just to pick up a prescription at a pharmacy inside the hospital. She said there was barely any cars outside in the normally full parking lots.

 

I have heard of people saying they have Covid. But I have not heard of anybody dying of it or them knowing anybody dying of it. I thing I have drawn many of the same conclusions as you have.

Edited by Thoth101
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As far as I am concerned, everyone who has served in the military ought to at least have their healthcare paid for the rest of their lives.  

That would be nice and thanks but apparently that only goes for congress even if only served 4 years. I do suppose instead of funding trillions of dollars in wars and having all our troops around the world they could afford to give every vet healthcare for the rest of their lives. But apparently people who served congress lives are far more important then someone who was actually in a war. Should be a hashtag#CongressLivesMatter. :lol:

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I am hoping and predicting that Fauci is wrong, and my predictions are based on a flu model.

 

I also want the numbers to drop.

 

You seem to be annoyed about that.

 

One can only assume you want the numbers to go up.

 

As for science, you threw that out the window some time ago when you just assumed that anyone with a mild flu-like illness, yourself included,  must have had covid, absent any testing. 

 

Maybe you were once a good scientist, but now your reasoning is being overruled by the climate of fear that has been created by people like Fauci. 

So, "Whiew's the dickhid naow?", as Joss Ackland's character says in Lethal Weapon 2.  

 

My acceptance of Fauci's estimated range for the number of deaths in the US seems to be being justified by events.

 

Yours, by contrast, is already too low by a huge margin. I see no way now that the US death toll can be anything less than 80,000, and 100,000 seems quite likely once all the numbers are in. If the lockdowns are taken off too soon, we could see a second wave, to add to that.

 

Readers can draw their own conclusions about whose scientific judgement has proved to be better.

 

As for my political judgment, the orange baboon* seems to have surpassed himself:

 

""So I asked Bill a question some of you are thinking of if you're into that world, which I find to be pretty interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether its ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said, that hasn't been checked but you're gonna test it. And then I said, supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can either do either through the skin or some other way, and I think you said you're gonna test that too, sounds interesting. And I then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way you can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it goes in one minute, that's pretty powerful."

 

 

*Sorry, that's, er, "President Trump" to me. According to you. Even though I'm not even a US citizen.  :winknudge: 

Edited by exchemist
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So, "Whiew's the dickhid naow?", as Joss Ackland's character says in Lethal Weapon 2.  

 

My acceptance of Fauci's estimated range for the number of deaths in the US seems to be being justified by events.

 

Yours, by contrast, is already too low by a huge margin. I see no way now that the US death toll can be anything less than 80,000, and 100,000 seems quite likely once all the numbers are in. If the lockdowns are taken off too soon, we could see a second wave, to add to that.

 

Readers can draw their own conclusions about whose scientific judgement has proved to be better.

 

As for my political judgment, the orange baboon* seems to have surpassed himself:

 

""So I asked Bill a question some of you are thinking of if you're into that world, which I find to be pretty interesting. So, supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, whether its ultraviolet or just very powerful light, and I think you said, that hasn't been checked but you're gonna test it. And then I said, supposing it brought the light inside the body, which you can either do either through the skin or some other way, and I think you said you're gonna test that too, sounds interesting. And I then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way you can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see. But the whole concept of the light, the way it goes in one minute, that's pretty powerful."

 

 

*Sorry, that's, er, "President Trump" to me. According to you. Even though I'm not even a US citizen.  :winknudge: 

 

 

That’s President Orange Baboon, to you!

 

40,000 is not too low by a huge margin since I don't consider NYC to be reporting accurately:

 

Note

In accordance with new CDC guidelines:

 

New York: the numbers shown below include probable deaths (and, consequently, probable cases for the same number) as reported by New York City

Maryland: includes probable deaths, as reported by the Department of Health (Section: "COVID-19 Statistics in Maryland")

Wyoming: includes probable cases, as reported by the Department of Health

 

 

"probable cases" do not even require any testing for the virus, just for the Dr or ambulance driver to make an assumption of the death being covid related.

 

Since they started doing that, the numbers have shot upwards.

 

Now the democrats will get the 100,000 number they crave for in the hope that will help demented Joe to win in November.

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That’s President Orange Baboon, to you!

 

40,000 is not too low by a huge margin since I don't consider NYC to be reporting accurately:

 

Note

In accordance with new CDC guidelines:

 

New York: the numbers shown below include probable deaths (and, consequently, probable cases for the same number) as reported by New York City

Maryland: includes probable deaths, as reported by the Department of Health (Section: "COVID-19 Statistics in Maryland")

Wyoming: includes probable cases, as reported by the Department of Health

 

 

"probable cases" do not even require any testing for the virus, just for the Dr or ambulance driver to make an assumption of the death being covid related.

 

Since they started doing that, the numbers have shot upwards.

 

Now the democrats will get the 100,000 number they crave for in the hope that will help demented Joe to win in November.

 

 

New York State only accounts for 22000 deaths out of the declared 55000 across the USA so far, these figures would appear better than what the Germans are achieving. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/ Looking at these figures and comparing them with the Europe, the US figures appear suspiciously low not suspiciously high! 

 

Its good to see your opinion of your President appears to have mellowed a little. :) Is a Orange Baboon better as a leader than a mildly demented good old American Joe :)

 

PS Has there been a rush on UV lights, syringes and disinfectant in the USA since your President made his last statement :) ?

Its good to see your opinion of your President appears to have reduced a little. 

 

Edit most of the deaths in Maryland are from those with confirmed Covid-19 https://coronavirus.maryland.gov/

Edited by Flummoxed
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