Coronavirus Is Fake News

[Vmedvil2]

According to Donald Trump the Coronavirus is fake news and people are at low risk for being infected, read more at https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486559-trump-fake-news-media-democrats-working-to-inflame-the-coronavirus

 

 

P.S. I tend to agree the coronavirus isn't as bad as the media is making it out to be, only 100,000 people infected and 3600 deaths, it's a very weak virus considering that chickenpox used to infect 4 million people per year and the flu infects 45 million people per year with 12,000 to 61,000 deaths. In my opinion this coronavirus scare is the biggest hoax in the last 5 years.

 

Edited March 15, 2020 by VictorMedvil

[Vmedvil2]

He has changed his mind since the 9/march. 

 

The fact of the matter is you are going to get it, and there is a +/- 3% mortality rate.

 

This 3% death rate is an average over the entire population, if you were to redo the figures for different age groups you will see in the elderly a much more alarming figure. 

 

Corona virus is with us now, it is not going to go away. The only defense anyone has against it, is a vaccine, or to become immune by recovering from the disease, if you dont get this year you will next. The governments of the world know this. They are stalling for time, hoping that the population slowly recovers and develops an immunity, before it effects the majority of the population.  

 

Being cynical > There is nothing more certain than death and taxes, and politicians being immoral people by nature, probably think in the long run, if the elderly and weak are taken out of the population, by not inoculating people, it will eventually reduce the burden on the health sector, and the rest of the public. They are also not a significant loss to the economy. If the virus was hitting those that contribute to the economy and young, then they might have more draconian measures in place already. 

 

What the hell makes anyone think the corona virus will magically disappear in a year. It wont, its in the human population now, just like the flu, its going to carry on coming back every year. get over it and get immune, or go into permanent quarantine.

See you get what I am getting at, most people would be so stricken by fear that they wouldn't understand why its not that scary compared to whats already out there, thus making this coronavirus scare = "Fake News".

Edited March 15, 2020 by VictorMedvil

[OceanBreeze]

He has changed his mind since the 9/march. 

 

The fact of the matter is you are going to get it, and there is a +/- 3% mortality rate.

 

This 3% death rate is an average over the entire population, if you were to redo the figures for different age groups you will see in the elderly a much more alarming figure. 

 

Corona virus is with us now, it is not going to go away. The only defense anyone has against it, is a vaccine, or to become immune by recovering from the disease, if you dont get this year you will next. The governments of the world know this. They are stalling for time, hoping that the population slowly recovers and develops an immunity, before it effects the majority of the population.  

 

Being cynical > There is nothing more certain than death and taxes, and politicians being immoral people by nature, probably think in the long run, if the elderly and weak are taken out of the population, by not inoculating people, it will eventually reduce the burden on the health sector, and the rest of the public. They are also not a significant loss to the economy. If the virus was hitting those that contribute to the economy and young, then they might have more draconian measures in place already. 

 

What the hell makes anyone think the corona virus will magically disappear in a year. It wont, its in the human population now, just like the flu, its going to carry on coming back every year. get over it and get immune, or go into permanent quarantine.

 

While I agree that we are all going to be infected at some time or other, I don't agree with your statement that there is a 3% mortality rate average over the entire population. There is no way that anyone can possibly know that.

 

The 3% mortality rate is only among confirmed cases and most of those confirmed cases are people who have severe symptoms that require medical attention, and so have been tested for the virus.

 

The actual number of people who have been infected, but who have Not become ill enough to seek medical help and who have not been tested, is much higher. When you use that total number of people as your denominator, the real mortality rate drops down to something much lower than 3%; perhaps as low as other flu-type infections such as H1N1 which killed about 13,000 in the US and some 250,000 around the world.

 

I am not going so far as to call COVID-19 fake news, as it is killing a lot of people, but the fact is these are mostly elderly people who have other pre-existing conditions. I don't understand the extreme measures being taken that, in my opinion, just cause mass panic and do more harm than good.

 

I think people have been fixating on too many walking-dead-type Hollywood scenarios and are not thinking logically about this.

Edited March 15, 2020 by OceanBreeze

[OceanBreeze]

Thanks for the correction. The infection rate might already be a lot higher than we know.

 

If not everyone develops full blown symptoms after exposure to a carrier, how can we tell after a fortnight in quarantine, they have not got the disease also. 

 

 

I have seen some estimates that the infection rate might be tens times higher than we know but I think these are also not based on any real evidence so I don't know how the number is arrived at. But experts are saying the vast majority of people who do get infected will only experience mild symptoms. I don't think we will know how many people are really infected unless we test everyone, which is really not practical or useful. This isn't a big killer like ebola so maybe just let it run its course? But flattening the curve a bit, with hand washing and common sense measures, so emergency rooms are not over loaded is a good idea.

[exchemist]

While I agree that we are all going to be infected at some time or other, I don't agree with your statement that there is a 3% mortality rate average over the entire population. There is no way that anyone can possibly know that.

 

The 3% mortality rate is only among confirmed cases and most of those confirmed cases are people who have severe symptoms that require medical attention, and so have been tested for the virus.

 

The actual number of people who have been infected, but who have Not become ill enough to seek medical help and who have not been tested, is much higher. When you use that total number of people as your denominator, the real mortality rate drops down to something much lower than 3%; perhaps as low as other flu-type infections such as H1N1 which killed about 13,000 in the US and some 250,000 around the world.

 

I am not going so far as to call COVID-19 fake news, as it is killing a lot of people, but the fact is these are mostly elderly people who have other pre-existing conditions. I don't understand the extreme measures being taken that, in my opinion, just cause mass panic and do more harm than good.

 

I think people have been fixating on too many walking-dead-type Hollywood scenarios and are not thinking logically about this.

There is another view on this, though, expressed by Jeremy Hunt, who used to be the Health Minister in the UK. The UK government strategy is not to prevent people catching it (it is too late for that) but to flatten the peak of the epidemic so that the health system is not overloaded.

 

However, he points out that if we flatten the peak so that no more than 5% of the population (60m people) has the disease at any given time, about 5% of those will need hospital treatment for breathing difficulties etc. That means 150,000 people. At present the health system has only 5000 beds for intensive care. Yikes!!

 

So now there is a crash programme starting, to get ventilators made, and to buy up empty hotel beds (there will be plenty of those, given that everybody has stopped travelling). 

 

This sort of calculation is the real reason for all the measures: the load on the health service. In Italy, doctors are having to decide who to let die, because they cannot treat everyone. Nobody wants to have to do that, even if a lot of the patients are elderly or already ill for other reasons. It's a huge moral issue, traumatic for the doctors and political dynamite. 

[Thoth101]

According to Donald Trump the Coronavirus is fake news and people are at low risk for being infected, read more at https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/486559-trump-fake-news-media-democrats-working-to-inflame-the-coronavirus

 

 

P.S. I tend to agree the coronavirus isn't as bad as the media is making it out to be, only 100,000 people infected and 3600 deaths, it's a very weak virus considering that chickenpox used to infect 4 million people per year and the flu infects 45 million people per year with 12,000 to 61,000 deaths. In my opinion this coronavirus scare is the biggest hoax in the last 5 years.

 

 

I think it is being tested around the world to see how people will react. The Cabal seem to want to spread fear and if people feed into the fear. The people will be asking to be locked into their houses under marshal law. The people will be asking for the mandatory vaccines. I think it is best we don't give the Cabal what they want. Yes be aware wash your hands and take care of yourself but don't fall for their fear program that has been instilled with this virus. All they need is for us to ask and for them to take our freedoms and they surly will because that seems to be the plan.

[Thoth101]

Is your view the mortality rate is about +/-3% or less. I know reporters were not allowed into Wuhan during the epidemic there, but via telephone they spoke to people who said many people were dying at home and being cremated without being tested. The figures from Wuhan might be worse than 3%. The figures in Italy suggest from those detected with infection making up the stats the death rate appears to be in line with a figure of about 3%. From your figures of 5% needing hospital treatment and the 3% death rate. 150000 x 3/5 = 90000 potential deaths in the UK from corona virus assuming they have enough ventilators. 

 

Putting this into perspective about 500 000 people die each year on average. There will be a blip of < 20% in the stats. 

 

Currently we dont have corona virus where I live, but it is only a matter of time, before some tourist sneezes on someone. The hospitals here can not deal with a huge number of cases, they are too small. The plan the governo has is to restrict any spread by stopping all large group meetings, via closing down meeting places, museums etc. Cafes and restaurants all of fewer tables with greater spacing between them. 

 

Without hospitalization I take it the mortality rate will be greater than 3% of the population?

 

If a region of the world is not infected this year and does not build up an immunity to the disease. It is going to be at continual threat of getting it in the future, as the corona virus like the flu is in the human population now, and is going to keep on reappearing for the foreseeable future, unless it can be eradicated by vaccines or other means. 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/7-deadly-diseases-the-world-has-almost-eradicated/

 

The germans are close to a vaccine, as are the japanese/canadians and the israelis. Trump would like to get exclusive rights https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-confirms-that-donald-trump-tried-to-buy-firm-working-on-coronavirus-vaccine/ lovely! chap 

 

I guess you missed this then:

 

Coronavirus vaccine trial is ready to administer its first dose in Seattle.

Seattle’s Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute plans to give an experimental dose of coronavirus vaccine to the first participant in a clinical trial on Monday, The Associated Press quotes a government official as saying.

 

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/report-seattle-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-ready-administer-first-dose/

[Vmedvil2]

I guess you missed this then:

 

Coronavirus vaccine trial is ready to administer its first dose in Seattle.

Seattle’s Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute plans to give an experimental dose of coronavirus vaccine to the first participant in a clinical trial on Monday, The Associated Press quotes a government official as saying.

 

https://www.geekwire.com/2020/report-seattle-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-ready-administer-first-dose/

Human Testing is this something the surprises you, all drugs are tested on humans after being tested on animals?

Edited March 16, 2020 by VictorMedvil

[Thoth101]

Human Testing is this something the surprises you?

 

Not at all I just got done reading tons of inserts on vaccines.  It really makes me wonder how much they pay people to put up their babies for trials. It just makes me wonder wouldn't it be against a babies free will to use them as a Guinea pig? How is that not child abuse?

[Thoth101]

Human Testing is this something the surprises you, all drugs are tested on humans after being tested on animals?

Flummoxed said Germans are close to a vaccine. I just gave him a link where they are already set to do trials.

[OceanBreeze]

There is another view on this, though, expressed by Jeremy Hunt, who used to be the Health Minister in the UK. The UK government strategy is not to prevent people catching it (it is too late for that) but to flatten the peak of the epidemic so that the health system is not overloaded.

 

However, he points out that if we flatten the peak so that no more than 5% of the population (60m people) has the disease at any given time, about 5% of those will need hospital treatment for breathing difficulties etc. That means 150,000 people. At present the health system has only 5000 beds for intensive care. Yikes!!

 

So now there is a crash programme starting, to get ventilators made, and to buy up empty hotel beds (there will be plenty of those, given that everybody has stopped travelling). 

 

This sort of calculation is the real reason for all the measures: the load on the health service. In Italy, doctors are having to decide who to let die, because they cannot treat everyone. Nobody wants to have to do that, even if a lot of the patients are elderly or already ill for other reasons. It's a huge moral issue, traumatic for the doctors and political dynamite. 

 

I guess we can only hope that of the 5% that may need to be hospitalized, not all will require to be in the ICU on ventilators. But, even if only 10% of them do need ventilators, that is still 15,000 people versus 5,000 available ventilators.

 

Obviously, that is still a big problem but perhaps not an insurmountable one if the manufacturing industry can be mobilized to start producing ventilators to keep up with demand. Some auto assembly lines can roll out 100 new vehicles every hour! If enough assembly lines can be tooled up for making ventilators, they can make up the shortfall in a couple of weeks.

 

Of course, this is all just number wanking at this point because we just don’t have enough data to know what’s what.

 

Two things I do know for sure: 1) the media profits greatly from fanning the flames of a crisis. 2) These things do have a way of burning themselves out naturally.

 

Just think of the bush fires in Australia. At one point it seemed as if the entire country would be engulfed in flames, the next thing you know the rains came and everywhere is flooded.

 

With these pandemics, sooner or later the herd immunity kicks in. As more and more people get infected, more and more develop immunity and there are less and less getting infected. The main thing is to flatten the curve of infection rate so hospitals do not get overwhelmed; people need to stay at home to deal with their condition. People should not panic and run to the hospital and insist on being put on a ventilator unless they really need it.

 

I have witnessed people having a panic attack and they have the same shortness of breath that this covid-19 causes, so I can conceivably see many people being put on ventilators who do not really need them.

 

The media needs to be calming people; not causing them to panic.

[OceanBreeze]

Is your view the mortality rate is about +/-3% or less. I know reporters were not allowed into Wuhan during the epidemic there, but via telephone they spoke to people who said many people were dying at home and being cremated without being tested. The figures from Wuhan might be worse than 3%. The figures in Italy suggest from those detected with infection making up the stats the death rate appears to be in line with a figure of about 3%. From your figures of 5% needing hospital treatment and the 3% death rate. 150000 x 3/5 = 90000 potential deaths in the UK from corona virus assuming they have enough ventilators. 

 

Putting this into perspective about 500 000 people die each year on average. There will be a blip of < 20% in the stats. 

 

Currently we dont have corona virus where I live, but it is only a matter of time, before some tourist sneezes on someone. The hospitals here can not deal with a huge number of cases, they are too small. The plan the governo has is to restrict any spread by stopping all large group meetings, via closing down meeting places, museums etc. Cafes and restaurants all of fewer tables with greater spacing between them. 

 

Without hospitalization I take it the mortality rate will be greater than 3% of the population?

 

If a region of the world is not infected this year and does not build up an immunity to the disease. It is going to be at continual threat of getting it in the future, as the corona virus like the flu is in the human population now, and is going to keep on reappearing for the foreseeable future, unless it can be eradicated by vaccines or other means. 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/05/7-deadly-diseases-the-world-has-almost-eradicated/

 

The germans are close to a vaccine, as are the japanese/canadians and the israelis. Trump would like to get exclusive rights https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-confirms-that-donald-trump-tried-to-buy-firm-working-on-coronavirus-vaccine/ lovely! chap 

 

Putting this into perspective about 500 000 people die each year on average. There will be a blip of < 20% in the stats. 

 

Are you allowing for any overlap in those numbers?

I mean, of the 500,000 who die every year, how many of them who will would die anyway, due to old age and other conditions, be swept up in the 90,000 whose deaths are attributed to corona? I suspect it could be a quite high percaentage of the 90,000, meaning the total deaths will not be much higher than normal.

Or am I wrong?

[Thoth101]

I guess we can only hope that of the 5% that may need to be hospitalized, not all will require to be in the ICU on ventilators. But, even if only 10% of them do need ventilators, that is still 15,000 people versus 5,000 available ventilators.

 

Obviously, that is still a big problem but perhaps not an insurmountable one if the manufacturing industry can be mobilized to start producing ventilators to keep up with demand. Some auto assembly lines can roll out 100 new vehicles every hour! If enough assembly lines can be tooled up for making ventilators, they can make up the shortfall in a couple of weeks.

 

Of course, this is all just number wanking at this point because we just don’t have enough data to know what’s what.

 

Two things I do know for sure: 1) the media profits greatly from fanning the flames of a crisis. 2) These things do have a way of burning themselves out naturally.

 

Just think of the bush fires in Australia. At one point it seemed as if the entire country would be engulfed in flames, the next thing you know the rains came and everywhere is flooded.

 

With these pandemics, sooner or later the herd immunity kicks in. As more and more people get infected, more and more develop immunity and there are less and less getting infected. The main thing is to flatten the curve of infection rate so hospitals do not get overwhelmed; people need to stay at home to deal with their condition. People should not panic and run to the hospital and insist on being put on a ventilator unless they really need it.

 

I have witnessed people having a panic attack and they have the same shortness of breath that this covid-19 causes, so I can conceivably see many people being put on ventilators who do not really need them.

 

The media needs to be calming people; not causing them to panic.

 

I think that is the best advice anybody can give. Do not run to the hospitals and panic. Not to mention if you do go to the hospital they will put you atleast in the US probably a military base or something like that away from the public. Then you will really be a Guinea pig.lol!

[Thoth101]

I guess we can only hope that of the 5% that may need to be hospitalized, not all will require to be in the ICU on ventilators. But, even if only 10% of them do need ventilators, that is still 15,000 people versus 5,000 available ventilators.

 

Obviously, that is still a big problem but perhaps not an insurmountable one if the manufacturing industry can be mobilized to start producing ventilators to keep up with demand. Some auto assembly lines can roll out 100 new vehicles every hour! If enough assembly lines can be tooled up for making ventilators, they can make up the shortfall in a couple of weeks.

 

Of course, this is all just number wanking at this point because we just don’t have enough data to know what’s what.

 

Two things I do know for sure: 1) the media profits greatly from fanning the flames of a crisis. 2) These things do have a way of burning themselves out naturally.

 

Just think of the bush fires in Australia. At one point it seemed as if the entire country would be engulfed in flames, the next thing you know the rains came and everywhere is flooded.

 

With these pandemics, sooner or later the herd immunity kicks in. As more and more people get infected, more and more develop immunity and there are less and less getting infected. The main thing is to flatten the curve of infection rate so hospitals do not get overwhelmed; people need to stay at home to deal with their condition. People should not panic and run to the hospital and insist on being put on a ventilator unless they really need it.

 

I have witnessed people having a panic attack and they have the same shortness of breath that this covid-19 causes, so I can conceivably see many people being put on ventilators who do not really need them.

 

The media needs to be calming people; not causing them to panic.

 

When does the media ever calm people down? They are 24 hours of fear porn. Why I stopped watching the mainstream media years and years ago. I do my own research and make my own decision on what news I want to know about. I could care less about who murdered or stabbed who in the nightly news every night. The world would be a lot better off if we all got off the addiction of the mainstream media selling us fear.

[exchemist]

I guess we can only hope that of the 5% that may need to be hospitalized, not all will require to be in the ICU on ventilators. But, even if only 10% of them do need ventilators, that is still 15,000 people versus 5,000 available ventilators.

 

Obviously, that is still a big problem but perhaps not an insurmountable one if the manufacturing industry can be mobilized to start producing ventilators to keep up with demand. Some auto assembly lines can roll out 100 new vehicles every hour! If enough assembly lines can be tooled up for making ventilators, they can make up the shortfall in a couple of weeks.

 

Of course, this is all just number wanking at this point because we just don’t have enough data to know what’s what.

 

Two things I do know for sure: 1) the media profits greatly from fanning the flames of a crisis. 2) These things do have a way of burning themselves out naturally.

 

Just think of the bush fires in Australia. At one point it seemed as if the entire country would be engulfed in flames, the next thing you know the rains came and everywhere is flooded.

 

With these pandemics, sooner or later the herd immunity kicks in. As more and more people get infected, more and more develop immunity and there are less and less getting infected. The main thing is to flatten the curve of infection rate so hospitals do not get overwhelmed; people need to stay at home to deal with their condition. People should not panic and run to the hospital and insist on being put on a ventilator unless they really need it.

 

I have witnessed people having a panic attack and they have the same shortness of breath that this covid-19 causes, so I can conceivably see many people being put on ventilators who do not really need them.

 

The media needs to be calming people; not causing them to panic.

Yes, some truth in that, though it is a fine balance. What we DO want is for the public to appreciate the importance of hand-washing and avoiding crowded spaces and for the vulnerable groups to keep away and get other people to do their shopping etc. 

 

You are obviously right that in the long run herd immunity will probably allow things to go back to normal, and it will become a seasonal endemic virus like "flu".

 

The present extreme measures, however, are to try to manage the short term stress on the health system, so that it does not break down at some point in the next 3 months - which it quite easily could, cf. Italy (and probably China, though they won't tell us). If that were to happen, the effect on public trust in government could be seriously shaken and a lot of nasty social and political consequences could ensure. As it is, we face a global recession with a lot of small business bankruptcies and a lot of people thrown out of work. I am preparing myself to expect the value of my savings to be halved in the short term, though I hope I'm wrong of course. 

[Thoth101]

I was thinking that after I posted it and went for a walk. The other thing is those figures assume the entire population is infected, which over time might be possible, in the short term it is unlikely, so those deaths attributed to corona virus might be significantly less than 90000. If it assumed only 50% of the population get it, the figures look much better. China managed to contain the outbreak, it has a much larger population than the UK, and had no where near 90000 deaths. There is still the possibility it could break out some where else in China! 

 

The fact that vaccines are starting to come to the market, might make the figures better. 

 

The vaccines aren't coming to market anytime soon they just started doing trials. Even if they push it through as fast as possible which is deadly it would still be a few months.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Thoth101

[Crasto]

Maybe this crisis pushes us into frugality.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Crasto