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Breeding Horses Instead Of Building Cars


ErlyRisa

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What's more efficient? The Horse or the Auto Carriage? LOL

 

As I stare at this plaster wall, and type away in my Cotton Blanket...I wonder if I would give a "crap", if I had my own Horsie to tend too: ie. I would be occupied, and I would understand the environment. I already know how to build a car, I know how to build a plane...but how do I engineer wings onto my Horsie?

 

Can I teach my Horse too Roller Blade, onthose nice new laserleved Roads? I Wreckon a RollerBlading horse could probably do 60km/hr comfortably.

Edited by ErlyRisa
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LOL, hey I want wings on my one!!

 

The car manufacturers could go into Horsie models.

The shoe manufacturers could go into special Horsie slippers.

Clothing manufacturers could specialise for the inner city girl with her new sporty horsie.

 

Our only problem is those Beastiality Youtube videos.

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  • 4 months later...

Automobile waste is gaseous.  Horse waste is not.  Imagine living in a major city where the primary means of transport leaves solid and liquid waste behind.

 

Horses are also just about the worst animal to place on a pasture.  Instead of biting grass, they rip it up, including the roots.  They are also extremely selective eaters.  Keeping horses alone on a pasture is the best way imagineable to ensure that the pasture will be populated by nothing but weeds in a few years.

 

There is a reason why personal short-range transport is not typically done by horses anymore.

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Automobile waste is gaseous.  Horse waste is not.  Imagine living in a major city where the primary means of transport leaves solid and liquid waste behind.

 

Horses are also just about the worst animal to place on a pasture.  Instead of biting grass, they rip it up, including the roots.  They are also extremely selective eaters.  Keeping horses alone on a pasture is the best way imagineable to ensure that the pasture will be populated by nothing but weeds in a few years.

 

There is a reason why personal short-range transport is not typically done by horses anymore.

 

ww1, otherwise, I think it would be more mixed like in the 3rd world (and if you account for the acceleration that ww1/2 provided. Then the third world would still be mostly donkey)

 

Horse could still be manageable today to an extant.

The problem with a living animal is that it doesn't switch off: ie I cannot store my horse, it needs constant energy input even when I am not using it.

...but thanks too ww2 I am sure there is some interesting research which allows for hibernating equine or similar, and in my opinion this is a more advanced form of technological progress than the piston engine.

 

Another consideration the west has to make when it pushes its ideals on the planet is that, in some parts of the world a mixed style of community is visible: Everything from Ferraris through too pedal power are residing on the one road. Not only does this account for diversity, it accounts for safety against attack from governed dystopian country dynamics.

 

eg. When a country starts too depend on one style of living, it makes it easier for the country to ask it's citizens to fight for the current style of living in tow. If the country's people are diverse, than the people are less responsive to the "mass" mentality that is self perpetuated when the citizens have mostly dead time on their hands. True: that for some strange reason we all want to be famous, and true that for some strange reason we all want, or are at least jealous of those that live in homes that have their own refrigeration system. To me this has never been the case, and I personally have always wanted to do something different: but in a dystopian attitude (which is already instilled), it is impossible todo as you want; rather you are told that you are to do as we advertise as being the main happiness (which is mostly todo with cheap over inflated commodity exchange -- and of course the more of it there is the easier it is too live off of the automaton that is society doing as it does) So far it has worked too give humanity advances like LED lighting...but now that it is available at bargain basement prices we are just making it by the ton for the sake of being able to make it by the ton, and all that ends up happening is that a select few are the only ones that get to be able to make it by the ton. CPU manufacturing has had it's similar hickup: only the biggest of companies have any ability, while the rest of us are told to either sing and dance or mine coal for a commodity (CPU Power) that would never be handed over to the same level as that which is selling it (They will always be ahead, no matter what you do).

 

Sadly at this late stage in western evolution: a revolt would achieve nothing. Those that already utilise the status quo via loan approval, are only doing so to stave off the inevitable: All value has been lost in existence.. existence is nothing more than a monkey playing on a computer, in perpetual enjoyment. If it is the case that being an old world member of the human population, and witnessing your children in a state of perpetual enjoyment based on an ever changing box of light: ---> than it may just be time to start learning to enjoy the planet humans were bred on in the first place. eg. Taking 3 days to get too work to write 20mins worth of script and get paid in bananas and sugar cubes(for the horse), b/c $49.95 for a computer game is not going to last long guys., and I am pretty sure we only need 1-2 more levels deep of generation procurement to create a complete mess of any psychological stability that humans of the future could endure.

 

I understand that the computer/gamer human is cheap/cheaper to run (minus transportation) , but they are also quite removed from what was human.

I am crssing my fingers that tommorows generation, will be humble enough to accept living a similar lifestyle to thier 3rd world cousins. (Less material exchange - more of freindship exchange)

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Why do you dislike change?

 

Change?

 

I'm talking about flying horses.

 

You know pros/cons

if Oil drys up (or should be utilsed for more valueable stuff) then Donkeys Goats and Horses would be the norm.

 

Some pros I see:

 

Parking...Horses take up less space.

New economy: Horsie Stereo systems, Horsie Slippers for comfortable riding. Horsie Rollerblades for the advanced farrier in you.

Horsie stables for long term parking. Horsie alarm: Proximity could mimick Mr. Ed. Horsie Pooh bags (I have been trying to think of one that would be comfortable for the horse), Horse **** Bricks. Horsie Umbrellas. I'm sure there is more.

 

Cons: Energy - Horse don't switch off.

Cons: Horse gets tired at night and would like naptime.

Cons: Horse Food more expensive than petrol.

Cons: Some people may buy camels instead (Alot of people hate them)

Cons: Old World Psychology of letting people (kids) go, and not come back for months on end is gone.

Cons: The Carriage is difficult too parralel park.

Cons: Surface area to account for so much Horsie Hay would mean Cows have to go. Alternate is too ride your Cow to work.

Cons: Horse Pooling would be common place: all girls like sharing Horsies.

Cons: Beastiality may end up being common place.

Cons: Goats are very hard to train. (But can be  controlled with shock sensors)

Cons: Lost Goats will eat launderette.

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I'm talking about flying horses.

Nobody’s yet made a horse-powered heavier-than-air aircraft. However, considering just power and mass, it appears to me possible.

 

However, though I’ve not found a high-quality source, I believe that, in ideal conditions, the peak power/mass ratio of a horse is about 17 W/kg, similar to that of a human, which is about 13 W/kg. There have been several successful human-powered airplanes, so a larger (a horse’s mass is about 7 times a human’s) such airplane should, in principle, be possible.

 

The challenge is inventing an compact, efficient way to get power from a horse. All the systems I’ve seen are treadmills, getting at best about 2200 W from a 450+ kg horse, only about 1/3rd what a harnessed horse can manage pulling a load on soft ground that they can dig their hooves into. Humans can output peak power via simple simple pedals, but I don’t think you can train a horse to turn pedals. A successful horse-powered airplane would, I think, need to have a much-improved sort of treadmill that would allow a horse to pull as well as they can on soft ground.

 

Some illustrative images:

The Alpha AG/Athens horse treadmill:

 

The “Naturmobile” horse treadmill powered car:

 

The Gossamer Condor:

 

On to your horse vs. car pros and cons ...

Parking...Horses take up less space.

I disagree. A horse is a 1-2 passenger “vehicle”, equivalent to a motorcycle. Horses take more space to “park” than motorcycles, and have to be hitched or fenced in, or they’ll wander off.

 

A horse-drawn carriage is about the same size as a car or truck of the same passenger/cargo capacity, with about 3 m added length for the harnessed horse, so again, takes more parking space than a “horseless carriage”.

 

A pro: greenhouse gas emission. A typical horse produces about 21 kg of CH4 (methane) per year. A typical car, driven the same distance as a typical carriage horse (16 km) burns about 380 L of fuel, releasing about 900 kg of CO2, Though methane is a more potent (about 20 time) greenhouse gas than CO2, horse-produced gasses have about half the greenhouse effect of a typical car, and methane is shorter-lived, so has less of a long-term effect.

 

A big con: horses are much slower and shorter-ranged than cars.

 

A big pro: left alone in sufficient pasture, horses breed. Cars don’t.

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Love the Treadmill.

 

Motorbike sized vehicles yes, I think are a great idea....but the soccer mom still wants a van or 4wd. Personally I would make my kids walk, but I don't see the harm in allowing kids ride goats to school, as the kids wear their goats out we can eat them.

 

Think of all the petrol is wasted in moms taking kids to location A or B: It used to be that kids lived their OWN LIVES, not dependent on the parent accommodating the transportation solution for their offspring. In my opinion parents are so bored they are living out lives dependent on raising kids as pets, and it has only gotten worse and worse...housing developments cater for larger pupil populations from kids traveling further and further distances. Kids are told to stay indoors and not leave the house in-case the bogie man gets them, hence the kids become vegetative in the sense that they rely on all activities being instilled by the adults (which in most cases needs more energy).

 

If kids were given solar panels and electric bikes: I am pretty sure they could make their own way around the suburbs as long as the parents let them: but they won't.

 

What has happened is the old economy of selling outdoor toys, or even some of the indoor ones (lego), has been traded for more of TV time and game console time...and the worst part is: the soccer moms are the most vocal save the planet types.

 

Soooo, too me it looks as though, too many people have too much time on thier hands, and seem to enjoy imprisoning themselves and by a common thought/culture promote this style of living. Easiest solution is to give everyone something to do, and to take on more reasonable responsibility in life, rather than treating your child as a pet...buy a horse and ride that to work.

 

oh and a similar thing has happened to the elderly: They too aswell imprison themselves or are imprisoned away from society some where far far away. If I were ruler for a day, my decree would be too ask retirement village development tobe rethought and located as close to metropolitan centres as possible. For one, the elderly wouldn't get lost as easily, and two the elderly can join in on the activities in the city, rather than locking themselves away on a golf course....and those conversations about how rotten todays generation are, will be put too rest.

 

 

 

the problem with energy consumption, isn't the tech as much as it is a social problem...families and organisations separate so that everything takes more time todo. In europe, not that long ago (and in the old West(US) too) , energy consumption per capita was less b/c people were more humble in interacting with each other (My house is your house style of living). Being poor was unheard of...b/c everyone was poor. True: entertainment was more barbarick: but compared with what is available on the internet today...it turns alot of kids off of life, seeing it before you get too experience it makes you sick of life. Thankfully sport is still their: Sometimes I think this is how Greece fell - not because of war, but because the people were fed up and left...and if they could do that (leave) on horse back, then maybe it's possible too keep cities more tight nit by extending interaction times between families and organisations. (ie. Rather than living on the day by day, weekend by weekend basis, we go back to a method by which people are more inviting of others into thier abode for extended periods for extended activities , eg. LAN parties)

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This has **** all to do with efficiency of one form of mobility versus another.  This thread is entirely predicated on your notion that the way things were done in the good old days were better than the way things are done today.

 

This is not a novel sentiment.  Nor is it objectively supportable.  Luddites exists in all times, and seem to me to be all equivalently both fascist and short-sighted.

 

If horses were the panacea you proclaim them to be, then a free-market would show that to be the case.  I don't think you've ever even taken care of a horse.  They are a huge pain in the ***.  The elimination of horses for personal mobility is, in my opinion, one of the single greatest acheivements of mankind.

 

ETA: I'm getting really ****ing tired of being censored for stupid **** that I type.  If this forum is going to censor the things that I write, then I should be warned about what words are sacred and what words aren't.

Edited by JMJones0424
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ETA: I'm getting really ****ing tired of being censored for stupid **** that I type.  If this forum is going to censor the things that I write, then I should be warned about what words are sacred and what words aren't.

Alternatively you could consider that:

1. the forum is open to young people and we do not wish to encourage the use of what is sometimes called "bad language".

2. with a little imagination you could pretty well tell what words would get censored.

3. a note to an admin politely requesting such a list, if it is available, might produce the desired result.

4. ultimately "bad language", which I have been known to use on forums, is rude. Do you wish to be known for being rude, or for the pertinence of your comments?

 

As to the substance of your remakrs, I agree that Erly Risa is talking balderdash. However, I believe he thinks it is stylish.

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This has **** all to do with efficiency of one form of mobility versus another.  This thread is entirely predicated on your notion that the way things were done in the good old days were better than the way things are done today.

 

This is not a novel sentiment.  Nor is it objectively supportable.  Luddites exists in all times, and seem to me to be all equivalently both fascist and short-sighted.

 

I have sat in traffic. The Bicyclists beat me all the time. The vehicles are occupied by only one person. The engine that is burning is being utilised to run an air conditioner or to keep the radio running.

 

I think you would get to work at the same rate on a fricken horse...and the morning school and afternoon school rush that the soccer moms produce on the roads is hell. Literally traffic changes quite abruptly at those two times of the day, and it's not for the sake of the child that they need tobe transported, it's for the sake of the mother, in order to show off their leotards.

 

Its a social problem.

 

Another social problem when it comes to traveling in individual vehicles is that no-one understands something as simple as the wave.

The best thing todo in the morning if the traffick is stop start...is for mutliple entities to co-operate and learn to start rolling with a huge gap.

Or you could just stop: Get out and have a conversation with the people behind you and wait the 30mins for the traffic at front to dissipate, then get back in and drive to the destination at an efficient rate that the vehicle was designed for, rather than idling in traffic.

 

If a carbon trading scheme were tobe enacted: people on bicycles would have to charge the people in traffick, for not having been another slow moving vehicle in that traffic.

 

The other social problem, is that it has always been possible to build a lightweight morning traffic vehicle that could be charged like slot cars, but we don't doit because we think that vehicle design is actually evolving -- it hasn't...a Model T Ford is actually MORE efficient than a similar sized car of today.

 

We are awaiting electric cars...what for? So that we continue the same pattern of living?

 

--Everyone stay at home and work from home --> SKYPE it in. ...use your carbon credits for a flight too Tahiti.

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You can say 'Horses' all you wan't, but they are actually quite expensive to maintain, feed and care for.

 

The bicycle is the most economical form of transportation, as per calorie/mile .. And I love doing miles of that..

 

But In the UnitedStates you need a Car or Truck ; and there is NO changing that fact... Its been a Car Culture since the 1920's, and its Not changing.

 

Horse Theivery was a sure way to be hung in the old Western days.. Straight to the gallows... You might kill a man after a card game or a whore dispute, and be let off, if it was self defense... But IF you stole another mans Horse, you were DONE.    

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You can say 'Horses' all you wan't, but they are actually quite expensive to maintain, feed and care for.

 

The bicycle is the most economical form of transportation, as per calorie/mile .. And I love doing miles of that..

 

But In the UnitedStates you need a Car or Truck ; and there is NO changing that fact... Its been a Car Culture since the 1920's, and its Not changing.

 

Horse Theivery was a sure way to be hung in the old Western days.. Straight to the gallows... You might kill a man after a card game or a whore dispute, and be let off, if it was self defense... But IF you stole another mans Horse, you were DONE.    

 

But IF you had Mr Ed Horsie alarms it wouldn't be as much a problem.

 

Maintanence industry for vehicles (personal) was a huge industry. Maintenance for personal petrol driven cars has dropped, almost to the point that you no longer buy cars and keep them long enough for maintenance to be an issue. (and the servicing of cars at specific miles is a fake industry that simply "resets" the computer of the car saying that something was done to it - ie. we are being forced into vehicle purchase and maintenance, at least in the computer industry if you don't want software you can build your own ... but if try to drive my own car down the road I get penalised for having an "inefficient vehicle" past its used by date)

 

It's not the oil companies that have us imprisoned, its the engineers at the car companies, and no offence to those engineers...but to me a car is archaic...and I KNOW WHAT you guys are going todo with the electric car.

 

The Automobile WAS an expression of freedom, and mayhave been a status symbol in its hey day...personally I think I can pull the chicks easier on horseback, and it would be cheaper.

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and the servicing of cars at specific miles is a fake industry that simply "resets" the computer of the car saying that something was done to it

I’ve heard claims like these, but perhaps because the only car I have is fairly old – a 2000 year model – which has no such functionality, have not seen any support for the claim. Do you have a link or reference supporting the claim, ErlyRisa :QuestionM

 

Most modern cars – ones younger than about 1995 – are indeed marvelous in how little maintenance they require compared to earlier ones, but in my experience, while a modern car often will last 10 years while traveling over 100,000 miles with no maintenance beyond keeping the tires inflated properly (though even with this, 100,000 miles is bit longer than I’ve ever seen even expensive modern tires last), this isn’t a good idea, because completely unmaintained cars fail much more often than ones that have had minimal periodic maintenance – just engine, transmission, and wheel lubrication and engine air filter changes. A 10 year/100,000 mile car maintained this way, or not at all, is in my experience a bit unsettling to drive, as its suspension bushings wear so badly they handle sloppily, even in a straight line.

 

... but if try to drive my own car down the road I get penalised for having an "inefficient vehicle" past its used by date

I’m not familiar with the laws where you drive your car, but I’ve not had this problem in the US state of Maryland. The oldest car I’ve had in this jurisdiction was a 1978 VW, but I didn’t have to pay any penalty to drive it as late as 2006 (when I gifted it in 2006 to someone more willing than I to keep up with its considerable maintenance), just make sure it passed an exhaust emissions test every 2 years. Despite having a smaller motor – 2 L displacement, producing perhaps 90 HP – than my 2000 Ford’s 3.8 L 200 HP, it had much higher emissions, but needed only to meet the limits for its year and model, not those for a newer vehicle.

 

I’m curious about your experiences being penalized for having an inefficient vehicle, EarlyRisa. What vehicle were you penalized for driving, and when and what were the penalties?

 

The Automobile WAS an expression of freedom, and mayhave been a status symbol in its hey day...personally I think I can pull the chicks easier on horseback, and it would be cheaper.

If you’re clever with your purchases and do your own maintenance, cars cost very little – I drove one for years that I bought for US$250, and kept fueled by people without cars who needed rides.

 

Horses, likewise, can be practically zero cost if you have enough pasture for them. If you want to ride one very much or on anything but soft ground, though, you’ll either need to know how to trim and shoe it, or pay someone who does, which costs around $600/year. If you ride an unshod horse much, or on hard dirt or pavement, it’ll go lame, a terrible, cruel thing to do to a horse.

 

If you need to travel much, though, horses aren’t nearly as good as cars. I’ve driven a car across North America in less than 48 hrs. The fastest anyone’s done that on a horse in recent history, I think, is 150 days – see here for details.

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