Project I Am Doing: Nazca Lines

[Aethelwulf]

The Nazca lines are traditionally said to be ancient lines drawn into the sands of the Nazca desert. They where created sometime around 800AC by the ancient Nazca people who lived there. Because the lines are very clear in the desert and huge in size has made the academic world wonder what their use was. There was a theory it has something to do with astrological signs and the lines marked the rising of the sun and other celestial objects. While though this may be partially true for the desert lines, there is compelling evidence to suggest that the lines had probably nothing to do with celestial rising of bodies over the horizon.

 

I have found amazing evidence, armed with only google Earth of the lines extending outside of the desert itself! Symbols commonly used in desert have been found in the mountain ranges and also up into the northern parts of Peru. Notably the mountain ranges of Changuilla where triangles of the same form found in the desert have been found and lines can be found even further than this, past Lacra. Lines can also be found in the Coyongo parts. Interesting lines and triangular designs can also be found deep into the mountains beside El Ingenio (where I found a bunch of geometric patterns) in a very clear equidistant distribution following up a narrow dried up river bed (presumably). They can be found also a little up north than this. Not just lines or triangular patterns typical of the Nazca design, but the evidence becomes stronger when I found a spiral shape intermingled in the distinct lines only slightly west of El Ingenio, possibly an indication they lived in the same valley at one time, but this is only speculation... because the designs seem to be found even further to Ica!! They are quite distinct, ranging over larger area's and are clearly man-made because of how they are distributed over the land surface. The lines connect and continue all the way to the base of Santiago.

 

 

 

 

Summary

 

I can provide strong evidence that the Nazca lines where in fact not only constructed in the desert itself, but also that the geoglyphs can be found located in the mountain ranges north of the desert and even to the north west right into the south of Santiago. It is possible that over the years the lines have become less and less obvious due to modern settlers and that modern crop farms in the region have in fact disrupted the patterns. In fact I have found evidence suggesting that long before the farms where there, you can actually match up the lines extending past the crop farms, suggesting that the modern farms have been built over larger designs obscuring their existence.

 

 

 

 

I can provide locations from Google Earth upon request.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Aethelwulf

[Aethelwulf]

I also found a new design I don't think anyone has found. At least over 300 designs independent of the usual designs found in the Nazca desert have been found, but I have found a design on the side of a mountain, just a little outside of the main desert into the base of a mountain (and has characteristics of some kind of bird)

 

[math]14^{o} 39'36.25''S[/math]

 

[math]75^{o}0.9'21.81'' W[/math]

 

elev 362 m eye alt 482

 

It is quite a large structure, quite visible even in the midst of the natural lines and triangular patterns scattered in the area.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Aethelwulf

[Aethelwulf]

Why do I think they originally did not have astrological sign significance?

 

I don't think they had such significance, if at all, because usually to do such a thing, when lining up stars to constructions on Earth requires a reasonably flat land, just like the desert itself. But because the symbols have been found deep into the mountain range it may be indicating that they had religious significance rather than aligning to cosmological bodies. Why the triangle in particular was of interest in their designs is not certain, only that the triangle has been worshiped as a favored design in ancient structures for many centuries. It may have in a strange kind of way, been considered a symbol of perfection or possibly fertility. Interestingly, we are dealing with a harsh climate where green shrubs tend not to grow unless in the fertile valley's, where in fact I found evidence of even more symbols in the mountains which suggests they may have lived in the same area specifically at one time.

 

It is not reasonable to think to have geometric shapes on the side of slanted bodies which are intending to point in a particular direction, nor is it logical to think the absolute purpose then is to have the designs doing such a thing when they are scattered in mountainous areas. I think because of the climate involved, they may have actually held more of a religious significance rather than something to do with celestial bodies but is totally within right to say that the larger designs of animals where to communicate to their gods. Especially when such symbols cannot be seen from ground level, even many of the triangle designs could never be seen from the ground level.

[Aethelwulf]

Why did I look elsewhere for designs and lines?

 

I sat here one night reading up on the Nazca lines and realized that if they really where for astrological sign significance then they wouldn't be found elsewhere, perhaps many miles from the desert itself. I realized that not many people would think about looking outside of the desert for the symbols which can be found in the desert thinking that the symbols would be unique to the desert itself. But they where not significant to the desert itself... spiral shapes of exact similarity to the tail of the monkey found in the desert can be found in a number of places outside of Nazca and also lines of serious resemblance to the shapes made in the desert could not only be found in the flatlands outside of the desert, but also into the mountain ranges of peru. There was also [[undeniable]] evidence of triangular patterns made in the same mountain ranges which made interest to me not because I could match them up, but because it brings into question the idea they where for astrological means only.

[Aethelwulf]

This week I am going to write up a chart of all the places where visible designs can be found and also the strange (almost like) Hieroglyphics found high into the mountain range... (I say almost like Hieroglyphs but they didn't actually have a writing system). Probably what looks like Hieroglyphs are probably a type of geoglyph. But still curious if what I am seeing is correct. I had to show this to a few people and they concur that it looks like Hieroglyphs but I have had to warn them they had no king of writing system.

[Turtle]

Why do I think they originally did not have astrological sign significance?

 

I don't think they had such significance, if at all, because usually to do such a thing, when lining up stars to constructions on Earth requires a reasonably flat land, just like the desert itself. But because the symbols have been found deep into the mountain range it may be indicating that they had religious significance rather than aligning to cosmological bodies. ...

 

 

The cosmological significance is the religious significance. The predicting of seasons, movement of planets, phases of the Moon, and eclipses is mighty powerful mojo to those not schooled in such knowledge.

 

 

I don't know what all cosmological relations are ascribed to Nazca, but you can look at those for Chaco Canyon in New Mexico for comparison. The alignments of buildings, "roads", and natural formations span dozens of miles and hundreds of feet in elevation.

 

Chaco Canyon Archaeoastronomy

 

 

I should add that the oft-repeated meme "Nazca lines can only be seen from the air." is simply not true. They can be seen from surrounding mountains.

Nazca Lines @ Wikipedia

...Contrary to the popular belief that the lines and figures can only be seen with the aid of flight, they are visible from atop the surrounding foothills. They were first discovered by the Peruvian archaeologist Toribio Mejia Xesspe, who spotted them when hiking through the foothills in 1927. He discussed them at a conference in Lima in 1939.

[Aethelwulf]

 

 

 

I should add that the oft-repeated meme "Nazca lines can only be seen from the air." is simply not true. They can be seen from surrounding mountains.

Nazca Lines @ Wikipedia

 

 

It would make sense they could see ''some of the lines'' from the mountains. I would believe however that the lines would become more obscure because of how far the desert spans. Most of the mountainous area's are to the north of the desert. I doubt all the Nazca designs could be seen, but definitely some of them could and probably was.

[Turtle]

It would make sense they could see ''some of the lines'' from the mountains. I would believe however that the lines would become more obscure because of how far the desert spans. Most of the mountainous area's are to the north of the desert. I doubt all the Nazca designs could be seen, but definitely some of them could and probably was.

 

 

I doubt your analysis brings anything new to the table. Could be, definitely, probably, some... you got nothin' bro.

[Aethelwulf]

My analysis already shows me a lot. The nazca lines are not only associated with the desert... they are in fact scattered all over Peru! I think that is adding quite a lot new to the table.

[Turtle]

My analysis already shows me a lot. The nazca lines are not only associated with the desert... they are in fact scattered all over Peru! I think that is adding quite a lot new to the table.

 

 

Since "Nazca" is the name of a specific geographic location, lines in other locations are not Nazca lines.

[Aethelwulf]

Yes it refers to the desert, but no one looked outside of the desert for evidence of the lines. The lines where created by the Nazca people, and has always been assumed that it was something they did in the Nazca desert itself. If I show evidence they are also found outside of the desert then this understanding that it was in the desert alone, is wrong.

[Aethelwulf]

Is there something wrong with you? Seriously, recently you walk about like you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

[Turtle]

Is there something wrong with you? Seriously, recently you walk about like you have a massive chip on your shoulder.

 

 

My bullshit detector went off & I'm responding is all. Don't get you loin cloth in a knot on my account. You might also look into some of the cosmological alignments at Machu Pichu and other Peruvian structures; fascinating!!

 

[Aethelwulf]

My bullshit detector went off & I'm responding is all. Don't get you loin cloth in a knot on my account. You might also look into some of the cosmological alignments at Machu Pichu and other Peruvian structures; fascinating!!

 

 

 

 

You're arguing semantic quibbles. I speak of the nazca lines (the name we all come to recognize) and you are getting into a flame war about a semantic quibble concerning it's name. This has nothing to do with ''bullshit detectors'' and you are more than aware of this. You just have a chip on your shoulder because of our confrontation in another thread.

 

I am more than aware if the lines are outside of the desert then by definition a new name has to be sought. No name has been created yet, so you are clearly just being... a prick.

[Aethelwulf]

Now, I do assume the lines where made by the Nazca people outside of the Nazca desert... I can't prove this but there is definitely a lot of evidence due to the shapes and patterns I have found outside of the desert. ''Nazca'' lines, the Nazca in this sense may refer to the people, the Nazcian's.

[CraigD]

The Nazca lines are traditionally said to be ancient lines drawn into the sands of the Nazca desert.

I think there’s near universal consensus that the Nazca lines are lines drawn in the Nazca desert, because ... well, they are lines, and they’re still there, in the Nazca desert. Because they’re clearly not just lines, but pictures, drawn on the surface of the Earth, they’re more descriptively called geolglyphs.

 

They where created sometime around 800BC by the ancient Nazca people who lived there.

This disagrees with what I’ve read about them (see the wikipedia article linked above for sources), which dates their making between 400 and 650 AD. I believe these dates are pretty accurate, because they were based in large part on carbon dating of wood artifacts left over from their construction.

 

I believe the consensus among archeologists and anthropologists is that the Nazca culture, which is characterized by irrigation-assisted farming, ceramics and textiles, appeared no earlier than about 100 BC, and that due to ecological collapse that made agriculture infeasible, it collapsed about 650 AD.

 

The Nazca people didn’t die out, but moved to more hospitable places, eventually (nominally 1438 AD) being included in the Inca Empire.

 

Because the lines are very clear in the desert and huge in size has made the academic world wonder what their use was. There was a theory it has something to do with astrological signs and the lines marked the rising of the sun and other celestial objects. While though this may be partially true for the desert lines, there is compelling evidence to suggest that the lines had probably nothing to do with celestial rising of bodies over the horizon.

Though some have theorized that, like other famous ancient constructions like Stonehenge, the Nazca lines were used for astronomical observations, I believe the main consensus now is that they were religious monuments. Because no written or oral history of their makers survives and has been found, their intended meaning may be forever a mystery, but from what we know of the Nazca culture’s reliance of water, and the ecological catastrophe that caused its collapse, the idea of some archeologist/anthropologists that they were an appeal their gods, who they believed to dwell above, to increase rainfall seems to me a reasonable one.

 

I can provide strong evidence that the Nazca lines where in fact not only constructed in the desert itself, but also that the geoglyphs can be found located in the mountain ranges north of the desert and even to the north west right into the south of Santiago.

Have you made, and can you share, a diagram, ideally superimposed on a Google Earth or similar composite aerial photo image?

 

The idea that the Nazca geoglyphs are part of a larger design doesn’t fit with the idea of them being messages to sky gods, but It would be easier to see a picture of what you’re claiming, Aethelwulf, rather than you trying to describe it in words.

 

You might also want to look for help on your project from the archeology/anthropology faculty of universities near you. My experience has been that these departments are usually pretty friendly and willing to help, especially in exchange for work of the digging and sifting kind. Archeology remains, I think, still a very dirt-under-your-nails, hands-on field, better conducted in the field than just on the internet.

[Aethelwulf]

I think there’s near universal consensus that the Nazca lines are lines drawn in the Nazca desert, because ... well, they are lines, and they’re still there, in the Nazca desert. Because they’re clearly not just lines, but pictures, drawn on the surface of the Earth, they’re more descriptively called geolglyphs.

 

 

This disagrees with what I’ve read about them (see the wikipedia article linked above for sources), which dates their making between 400 and 650 AD. I believe these dates are pretty accurate, because they were based in large part on carbon dating of wood artifacts left over from their construction.

 

I believe the consensus among archeologists and anthropologists is that the Nazca culture, which is characterized by irrigation-assisted farming, ceramics and textiles, appeared no earlier than about 100 BC, and that due to ecological collapse that made agriculture infeasible, it collapsed about 650 AD.

 

The Nazca people didn’t die out, but moved to more hospitable places, eventually (nominally 1438 AD) being included in the Inca Empire.

 

 

Though some have theorized that, like other famous ancient constructions like Stonehenge, the Nazca lines were used for astronomical observations, I believe the main consensus now is that they were religious monuments. Because no written or oral history of their makers survives and has been found, their intended meaning may be forever a mystery, but from what we know of the Nazca culture’s reliance of water, and the ecological catastrophe that caused its collapse, the idea of some archeologist/anthropologists that they were an appeal their gods, who they believed to dwell above, to increase rainfall seems to me a reasonable one.

 

 

Have you made, and can you share, a diagram, ideally superimposed on a Google Earth or similar composite aerial photo image?

 

The idea that the Nazca geoglyphs are part of a larger design doesn’t fit with the idea of them being messages to sky gods, but It would be easier to see a picture of what you’re claiming, Aethelwulf, rather than you trying to describe it in words.

 

You might also want to look for help on your project from the archeology/anthropology faculty of universities near you. My experience has been that these departments are usually pretty friendly and willing to help, especially in exchange for work of the digging and sifting kind. Archeology remains, I think, still a very dirt-under-your-nails, hands-on field, better conducted in the field than just on the internet.

 

 

I apologize, I said (BC) I meant to say (AD).

 

 

 

As for providing pictures, I cannot do this, but I am preparing as we speak, locations which people here can look at google Earth and see for themselves. Many of the designs found outside of the desert would be very hard to dispute. I am very confident in my findings.