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The Higgs Boson Has *not* Been Found


Aethelwulf

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Not entirely true, the atom was predicted and accepted long before it was proven. For almost as long as that atoms were considered the smallest of all particles and could not be reduced further into smaller particles. Take a look at the accepted models and theories for black holes and how they've changed over the years. What's accurate as of now is not guarantied to be accurate a week, a month, a year or a decade from now. It may be that as I gather from the reading that the difference is a matter of interpretation of the data, or that the predicted value does not match the actual.

 

 

Ok, the Higgs Boson is not a composite particle! ie. It is not an atom.

 

It is a spin-0 elementary particle meaning it is not an atom or any other type of composite particle which means your understanding is wrong.

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Not entirely true, the atom was predicted and accepted long before it was proven. For almost as long as that atoms were considered the smallest of all particles and could not be reduced further into smaller particles. Take a look at the accepted models and theories for black holes and how they've changed over the years. What's accurate as of now is not guarantied to be accurate a week, a month, a year or a decade from now. It may be that as I gather from the reading that the difference is a matter of interpretation of the data, or that the predicted value does not match the actual.

 

 

Also, to his quote, there is absolutely no evidence this has to do with ''supersymmetry...'' don't get me wrong... It is a beautiful theory, but one which is rooted in many string theory panels. Superymmetry is a highly speculative realm of science. I have studied some of it's equations and it is not very convincing. To say supersymmetry solves this problem is a bit naive in my eyes.

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So you are calling the folks associated with CERN and ATLAS naive...or at the least the persons that prepared the provided document?

 

Ok, the Higgs Boson is not a composite particle! ie. It is not an atom.
Never said it was an atom. I was referring to the nature of science and how things that are "accepted" or not at the time evolve or change almost entirely over time.

 

In any case I find myself questioning

A lot of this is over my head. I don't know all the decay models of particles.
especially when followed by
''supersymmetry...'' don't get me wrong... It is a beautiful theory, but one which is rooted in many string theory panels. Superymmetry is a highly speculative realm of science. I have studied some of it's equations and it is not very convincing. To say supersymmetry solves this problem is a bit naive in my eyes.
Interestingly, something I should add, there are NO spin zero particles in nature, hence a reason why a Higgs Boson is obsolete.
Ok, the Higgs Boson is not a composite particle! ie. It is not an atom. <br style="color: rgb(8, 8, 8); font-size: 13px; line-height: 20px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252); ">

It is a spin-0 elementary particle meaning it is not an atom or any other type of composite particle which means your understanding is wrong.

Seems to me you at least think you know enough to mount an argument.
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So you are calling the folks associated with CERN and ATLAS naive...or at the least the persons that prepared the provided document?

 

 

Well, considering it is based on supersymmetry which had a few problems in it's theory, well yes, I will call them out to be naive if they proclaim the existence of a particle on the basis of this... not to mention, the energy range of this particle is completely incompatible...

 

 

How many inconsistencies are required I ask?

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Well, considering it is based on supersymmetry which had a few problems in it's theory, well yes, I will call them out to be naive if they proclaim the existence of a particle on the basis of this... not to mention, the energy range of this particle is completely incompatible...

 

 

How many inconsistencies are required I ask?

I dunno, still waiting for his reply.

On the subject of the folks involved from their site-

Who are the 3000 physicists in ATLAS? ATLAS is a virtual United Nations of 38 countries. In this troubled world, it is inspiring to see people from many lands working together in harmony. International collaboration has been essential to this success. These physicists come from more than 174 universities and laboratories and include 1000 students. ATLAS is one of the largest collaborative efforts ever attempted in the physical sciences.
They cam't all be naive.

An interesting read while we wait.

http://blogs.scienti...disappointment/

http://blogs.scienti...disappointment/

http://blogs.scienti...ed-with-errors/

 

 

Edited by DFINITLYDISTRUBD
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The "official" word is "yes, 99.999% certain. But like 99.999% of all things science there is no such thing as 100% absolutely certain."

 

Is this a new kind of Higgs then, because it certainly can't be the kind of Higgs predicted by theory if it has the wrong energy?

Edited by Aethelwulf
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''What have the CERN experiments actually seen? Well, to start with, there is almost certainly a new particle with a mass of roughly 125 GeV. This mass can be estimated from the trajectories taken by the decay products. Weighing about 133 times the mass of a proton, the new particle is among the most massive particles so far detected. Only the top quark is heavier, at about 170 GeV. Among particles that can be isolated, the W and Z bosons (carriers of the weak nuclear force) are heaviest at 80-90 GeV.''

 

''CERN's new particle is observed to decay into a pair of photons (gamma rays). As photons have a spin of one, the particle from which they are emitted must have either spin-0 (1-1), or spin-2 (1+1). The experiments show the new particle has integral spin, so it is a boson. Spin-2 particles are rather unlikely to be made in a collider, so the new particle is probably (but not necessarily) a spin-0 particle.''

 

http://www.gizmag.com/higgs-boson-cern-alternative-particle/23319/

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''While the theoretical Higgs boson and the new particle have the same decay modes, it appears that there are certain discrepancies between the new particle's decay probabilities and those predicted for the Higgs boson. The probabilities for the bottom quark and tau lepton decay modes is much smaller in observations of the new particle than those predicted for the Higgs boson, and the probability for the photon decay mode is about 50 percent larger than predicted for the Higgs boson.''

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Here is a point I have already made myself

 

 

''What else could the new particle be? There are other version of the Higgs interaction giving mass to particles. If the new particle does not decay into tau leptons, that would suggest that its interaction with tau leptons is rather weak, and also that it is not responsible for their mass. Perhaps the new particle is only the Higgs boson for bosons, but some other particle gives the fermions (electrons and leptons) their mass. This is in line with the original formulations of the Higgs field, which was to only explain how bosons got their mass.''

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''Back to the original question - is it or isn't it? If the new particle is found to have odd parity, or if the decay mode discrepancies survive as more data is acquired, the new particle is likely not the Higgs boson of the Standard Model. This would actually be very exciting, as it may be the first dent in the Standard Model taking us toward a new level of understanding of the universe. Or we may have indeed just discovered the Higgs, but there is still a need to search for new clues as to the extra levels of structure we know must exist.''

 

http://www.gizmag.com/higgs-boson-cern-alternative-particle/23319/

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Personally, I think it is possible that the particle found is a nonstandard Higgs Boson, in which case, that is very exciting because it opens up more possibilities of new science. If it is your usual standard Higgs Boson, it might be the end of speculative theories involving particle physics. I really hope that isn't the case - as some scientists have called it... ''the nightmare scenario.''

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