Water Only Fasting As A Therapy For Hypertension

[Lancewen]

I'm considering trying this therapy because of the information published by True North Health . This is one of those therapies that doesn't require drugs and therefore doesn't generate any money for big pharmaceutical companies. So publications of positive results don't get published by anyone wanting in on the advertizing money from the pharmaceutical companies.

 

In any event I'm hoping to hear from anyone who has first hand experience or knows someone who has first hand experience with this type of therapy. The minimum time to be on the therapy is 4 days. To me that's a long time to be living on just water, but if it works the benefits of not being on drugs for extended periods of time sounds very good.

[Turtle]

I'm considering trying this therapy because of the information published by True North Health . This is one of those therapies that doesn't require drugs and therefore doesn't generate any money for big pharmaceutical companies. So publications of positive results don't get published by anyone wanting in on the advertizing money from the pharmaceutical companies.

 

In any event I'm hoping to hear from anyone who has first hand experience or knows someone who has first hand experience with this type of therapy. The minimum time to be on the therapy is 4 days. To me that's a long time to be living on just water, but if it works the benefits of not being on drugs for extended periods of time sounds very good.

 

the site looks like quackery to me. if you have a genuine medical condition, seek genuine medical care.

 

i have fasted on liquids for 2 days with only minor discomfort, but it was to prep for a colonoscopy. it was preferable in my experience to the 1-day quicky drink the "goo" treatment they offer to prepare for the same procedure. :bwa:

Edited April 4, 2012 by Turtle

[CraigD]

I'm considering trying this therapy because of the information published by True North Health .

The folk at True North Health seem to me to be providing a reasonable priced service – an intense (one might even say vaguely prison-like) combination of education session, healthy meals, and, optionally, supervised fasting, for US$140-230/day, +$175 for an initial assessment visit. Unlike some “media retreat” programs of this kind, you’re allowed normal activities such as TV, audio, and internet. However, I’d recommend this kind of treatment only as a nearly last-resort for people who have tried and failed to adopt good diet practices on their own.

 

I’d also warn people that the person behind this program, Alan Goldhammer, is a doctor of chiropracty. Chirpracty is considered by most biologist and medical clinicians to be a pseudoscience. So, if you’re offended by ideas and people credulous of chiropractic claims, such as that all or most disease is cause or can be cured by manipulation of the spine, you’ll likely not much like Dr Goldhammer’s books or clinics.

 

As far as the claim that fasting is an effective therapy for hypertension (high blood-pressure), I don’t think this is a valid claim. Goldhammer, Lisle, Parpia, Anderson, and Campbell’s 2001 JMPT (a chiropractic journal) paper Medically Supervised Water-only Fasting in the Treatment of Hypertension, which seems to be the basis for this claim, describes a very weak study of only a treatment (no control) population, making it impossible to distinguish the effect of the program’s short fasts with those of its healthy diet, or compare its efficacy with that of any successful diet-only treatment for hypertension.

 

In short, it’s uncontroversial that improved diet, especially reducing your daily intake of salt, can allow most people to control high blood pressure without the use of drugs. I’d recommend people with high blood pressure try this first. In the US, simply reading food packaging and not exceeding the recommended daily amount of sodium is an easy way to do this.

 

In any event I'm hoping to hear from anyone who has first hand experience or knows someone who has first hand experience with this type of therapy.

I’ve done a lot of water-only fasting, primarily for its “recreational” value. It makes me feel euphorically “light” and alert. Also – I know no delicate way to put this – I find having my guts essentially shut down – no solids in or out – amusing and fun.

 

The longest I’ve ever water-only fasted is 14 days. I’ve avoided solid foods, but had high-calorie juices and sugar and corn sweetener sportsdrinks, for as long as 40 days. I’ve not done a serious fast in 6 years, but usually do a sundown Friday to sunup Monday fast every 4 to 5 weeks. I’m 52 and have never been diagnosed with hypertension, or any other serious illness since infancy, though, so can’t personally testify to any health benefits of it.

 

I’ve a few friends who enjoy fasting, too. Some of them make claims for its health benefits, but, friends thought they are, I don’t think their claims are scientifically credible.

[Lancewen]

The folk at True North Health seem to me to be providing a reasonable priced service – an intense (one might even say vaguely prison-like) combination of education session, healthy meals, and, optionally, supervised fasting, for US$140-230/day, +$175 for an initial assessment visit. Unlike some “media retreat” programs of this kind, you’re allowed normal activities such as TV, audio, and internet. However, I’d recommend this kind of treatment only as a nearly last-resort for people who have tried and failed to adopt good diet practices on their own.

 

I’d also warn people that the person behind this program, Alan Goldhammer, is a doctor of chiropracty. Chirpracty is considered by most biologist and medical clinicians to be a pseudoscience. So, if you’re offended by ideas and people credulous of chiropractic claims, such as that all or most disease is cause or can be cured by manipulation of the spine, you’ll likely not much like Dr Goldhammer’s books or clinics.

 

As far as the claim that fasting is an effective therapy for hypertension (high blood-pressure), I don’t think this is a valid claim. Goldhammer, Lisle, Parpia, Anderson, and Campbell’s 2001 JMPT (a chiropractic journal) paper Medically Supervised Water-only Fasting in the Treatment of Hypertension, which seems to be the basis for this claim, describes a very weak study of only a treatment (no control) population, making it impossible to distinguish the effect of the program’s short fasts with those of its healthy diet, or compare its efficacy with that of any successful diet-only treatment for hypertension.

 

In short, it’s uncontroversial that improved diet, especially reducing your daily intake of salt, can allow most people to control high blood pressure without the use of drugs. I’d recommend people with high blood pressure try this first. In the US, simply reading food packaging and not exceeding the recommended daily amount of sodium is an easy way to do this.

 

 

I’ve done a lot of water-only fasting, primarily for its “recreational” value. It makes me feel euphorically “light” and alert. Also – I know no delicate way to put this – I find having my guts essentially shut down – no solids in or out – amusing and fun.

 

The longest I’ve ever water-only fasted is 14 days. I’ve avoided solid foods, but had high-calorie juices and sugar and corn sweetener sportsdrinks, for as long as 40 days. I’ve not done a serious fast in 6 years, but usually do a sundown Friday to sunup Monday fast every 4 to 5 weeks. I’m 52 and have never been diagnosed with hypertension, or any other serious illness since infancy, though, so can’t personally testify to any health benefits of it.

 

I’ve a few friends who enjoy fasting, too. Some of them make claims for its health benefits, but, friends thought they are, I don’t think their claims are scientifically credible.

 

Thanks for your input. One thing fasting does, is to help eliminate poisons that have been accumulating in the body's fat stores. At least if you fast long enough to burn up that fat. I take it when you fasted it was something you did on your own without consulting a doctor? I also get that you think fasting is a safe activity?

 

I know that a low caloric intake can prolong life. I just never met anyone that would choose to live that way in order to gain a few more years of life. I don't recall what reason or speculation was given for the prolonged life, but they proved it works with rats and monkeys. This being so would seem to indicate there are reasons a low caloric diet works and periodic fasting might actually be a solution to many health problems. I would submit if fasting is safe, then it won't hurt me to give it a try and see what happens. Also, it wouldn't hurt me to lose a few extra pounds.

[HydrogenBond]

If you look at the past, most humans did not have all the food variety and quantity we have today. Hunger or involuntary fasting was a way of life. If you believe in natural selection, humans would have evolved along the lines of those who could best sustain involuntary fasting.

 

One might infer such prolonged dieting might bring one back to their genetic roots. From that old-time platform, maybe the body goes into a different mode, where it can grind down anything for food value, including hard to burn body materials.

Edited April 8, 2012 by HydrogenBond

[CraigD]

Thanks for your input. One thing fasting does, is to help eliminate poisons that have been accumulating in the body's fat stores.

To the best of my knowledge, this is mostly of folk myth, containing a small amount of scientific validated truth.

 

While clearly if you’re fasting, ingesting nothing but clean water, and excreting as usual small amounts of poisons such as lead, mercury, radioisotopes and pesticides, you are “detoxifying”, the rate at which you can release and excrete these is low. Sooner or later, you must resume eating food, or at least drinking liquid containing at least as much food energy (calories) as you are using, or you will starve to death.

 

When you metabolizes body fat, poisons accumulated in them are released into your blood. Some are removed by your kidneys and excreted in urine, others taken up and stored in organs such as your liver, so losing fat does detoxify your body somewhat. However, I know of no legitimate scientific evidence that this detoxifying process improves your health. Losing fat to reach and more healthy weight is shown by many studies to improve your health.

 

However, fasting is not an effective way to lose weight. You can’t exercise much when fasting. I like exercising when fasting usually running, mostly for the novel feeling of getting easily exhausted, but can’t sustain it long enough to get much benefit from it. Exercising while fasting is dangerous, and shouldn’t be done without at least replacing electrolytes, such as by drinking a good sports drink (one with a lot of soluble potassium and sodium in it).

 

I lose weight slowly when fasting than when getting about 1300 dietary calories (Kcalories) a day while exercising (including ordinary walking and jogging to get around) at a level that requires getting 2000-3000 cal/day, which makes sense considering the rule-of-thumb that most fasting people use about 700 calories/day. I’m also able to lose weight on a 1300 cal/day diet while maintaining muscle tone and without much loss of strength and stamina.

 

The best way, I think, to eliminate poisons from your body is to avoid excessive consumption of foods that contain them, such as fish and organ meat, making sure to wash innately low-toxin foods like vegetable, and being sure your water isn’t contaminated, by running taps down the drain for several seconds before taking the water, and using a good-quality resin/charcoal water filter.

 

However, I know of no credible evidence that such practices are good for your health because they cause your body to accumulate fewer poisons, unless your food and water supply is unusually toxic, such as coming from fish and shellfish in from an unusually polluted place, consisting largely of predatory fish like tuna or dolphin, or water coming from old, lead-soldered pipes.

 

At least if you fast long enough to burn up that fat. I take it when you fasted it was something you did on your own without consulting a doctor? I also get that you think fasting is a safe activity?

My father was an MD, my mother a nurse, then a nursing professor, and since the mid 20s, I’ve worked for a healthcare system, so I’ve essentially never done much of anything without consulting with one or more MDs. Other than cautions such as the one I gave above about avoiding electrolyte depletion from exercise while fasting, none have voiced serious concerns about my “recreation fasting” hobby.

 

I know that a low caloric intake can prolong life. I just never met anyone that would choose to live that way in order to gain a few more years of life.

I know a few folk who practice calories restriction, in part for its potential life-extending benefit. However, much of their motivation and gratification comes, I think, from effects, primarily the social one of being thin, looking good in fashionable cloths, and generally being considered more attractive, and in many cases more disciplined and intelligent, by many people.

 

I tried it for about two years, maintaining a mass of about 65 kg (I’m about 180 cm tall, with broad shoulders and hips), but didn’t like it, mostly because I felt weak and slow, so stopped.

 

I don't recall what reason or speculation was given for the prolonged life, but they proved it works with rats and monkeys.

The main theoretical explanation for why it works is that, by using energy at a lower rate with the same “metabolic machinery” – primarily the mitochondria – they don’t “wear out” as soon.

 

This theory is fairly sound in principle, and has some experimental support. It’s known that senile mitochondria release damaging substances such as peroxides and free radicals, which further damage them, resulting in an ultimately fatal vicious cycle. It’s been shown that simple organisms, such as yeasts, when fed greater amount, die more quickly, and when fed less, live longer, or even indefinitely.

 

It appears, and is reasonable speculation, that the more complicated an organisms metabolic regulatory mechanisms, the less profound the life-extending effects of reduced metabolic rate is. So, while the expected lifespan of yeast may be extended by factors of hundreds or more, the effect in rats has been found to be 30-40%. We don’t know if such an increase would occur in humans or other primates, however, because we’ve not been able to study the effects of calorie restrictions for an entire normal lifespan or longer for these animals.

 

This being so would seem to indicate there are reasons a low caloric diet works and periodic fasting might actually be a solution to many health problems. I would submit if fasting is safe, then it won't hurt me to give it a try and see what happens. Also, it wouldn't hurt me to lose a few extra pounds.

I agree, though as I say above, I think health benefits come from a sound, non-fasting diet, not fasting itself. By helping make you more conscious of feelings of hunger and satiation, and think more about diet, I think it fasting can be a valuable part of training to have a good diet.

 

My main advice regarding fasting is to ease into it. Try 24 hour fasts on weekends. Try nutritional liquid only (juice and broths) semi-fasts. Gradually lengthen your fasts. Get used to the feel of your body in its starvation metabolism state, being careful to learn to compensate for a loss in strength so as not to get hurt tripping or stumbling, or from climbing, jumping, lifting, etc. you’re accustom to doing with a normal metabolism. If you start to feel unwell during a fast, end it. Eat a good diet between fasts, and don’t start a new fast while you’re still feeling the effects of your last one.

 

A benefit I think I’ve gotten from fasting is reducing anxiety about food. Knowing that I can function normally for a few days with only water relieves me of worrying about not being able to get food because of a civil or natural disaster, accident or economic mishap. I think nothing of taking a day or two long hike or small boat trip without taking any food, making such activities more convenient. In short, find the certain, more than merely academic, knowledge that I won’t sicken or die from a short fast psychologically comforting and relaxing.

[Guest MacPhee]

I just never met anyone that would choose to live that way in order to gain a few more years of life.

 

That's exactly the point. Our lives are short, no matter what frantic efforts we make to prolong them. Efforts, such as CraigD has described in his always impressive posts, can only prolong life by a few years.

 

So why should we bother? Even if we carefully drink water from taps that have left running for 1 minute, and abstain from eating predatory fish, we'll still all be dead in 100 years from now.

 

If we could avoid such a fate, by adopting a plain, abstemious, joyless diet, that might be a sensible course to pursue.

 

But as things are, isn't it best to eat, drink and be merry, then die contented at 70 - rather than drag it out, and die full of regret at 100?

[Lancewen]

That's exactly the point. Our lives are short, no matter what frantic efforts we make to prolong them. Efforts, such as CraigD has described in his always impressive posts, can only prolong life by a few years.

 

So why should we bother? Even if we carefully drink water from taps that have left running for 1 minute, and abstain from eating predatory fish, we'll still all be dead in 100 years from now.

 

If we could avoid such a fate, by adopting a plain, abstemious, joyless diet, that might be a sensible course to pursue.

 

But as things are, isn't it best to eat, drink and be merry, then die contented at 70 - rather than drag it out, and die full of regret at 100?

 

I like the idea of living longer as long as those extra years are quality years. For most of us, living on a restricted diet would not be all that great, partly because we didn't grow up that way. Good eating habits are mostly established as we grow into adults. After that it gets harder to change eating habits.

 

I've heard that a person that lives on a well rounded healthy diet has little need for supplements. I do think supplements can help the fast food generation. We are still learning a lot about diet. I just watched a 60 minutes program that is saying sugar may be worse than fat when it comes to heart disease and many other diseases that plague Americans today. I'd like to find a good selection of processed foods that taste good but are not loaded with salt, sugar and fat.