Should women not be distracted from bearing and raising children by science?

[pamela]

The thread title contains an "either-or" strawman which needs to be knocked over. If a mother only knows "mothering", she isn't going to be able to raise her children properly. No matter how good she is at cooking, cleaning, nursing... if she can't feed her children's minds, she can't do the whole of the job. So don't apologise, Pam. You already knew that! I was blessed with a mother who knew lots of stuff. She left school early, but fed a strong bump of curiosity throughout her life. If I asked her a question, she'd either be able to answer it straight away, or we'd look it up together.

 

Incidentally, who says that breast feeding has to be the mother's job? I used to wake up when the baby cried, take him to my almost-asleep wife, plug in to the left, plug in to the right, take him away for burping, changing, cuddling, chatting, before settling him down again. I treasured those small-hours bonding sessions with him - and my wife treasured the extra sleep. Caring for a newborn is hard work.

wait, where was I apologising?

[pamela]

No one said that education isn't important. The problem is that in practical terms how would you help all women to get that so they could pursue a career and spend quality time with their chilren too?

the word quality is key here; there may not be quantity.

I know many women that if given the financial resources and time would gladly juggle a career and motherhood but others that are more than content to stay home. If mothering was considered a real job by most governments and women compensated for it, most mothers would ensure that they and their children were well educated.

Its a matter of choice.Where theres a will, there is a way.I would pick up discarded furniture off the side of the road. Get mine and all the neighborhood kids in my workshop. All would take part in the refinishing. If the pieces got damaged by the kids, then they got a faux finish. Then I would sell the pieces. Taught all those kids many skills and fostered a love of tools and craftsmanship in them.We all gained. We all learned and we made ends meet. :)

[dduckwessel]

the word quality is key here; there may not be quantity.

 

Yes but the problem in most of the world is quantity not quality. I am very concerned that the developing world is losing ground (what I meant by the demise of our civilisation!):

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_pop_gro_rat-people-population-growth-rate

http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=2

 

The nations with the greatest population growth are the poorest (which everyone already knows). Islamic culture fosters big (6-8 children) families and plays a huge role in many of those countries [which would be fine if the culture was not, in my mind, highly repressive both to women and supposed infidels (anyone who does not follow Islam)]:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_isl_sun-religion-islam-sunni (there's another list for Shia although I don't know the differences between sunni and Shia)

 

I see a direct correlation between religion and poverty...to me a harbinger for disaster!

 

I would pick up discarded furniture off the side of the road. Get mine and all the neighborhood kids in my workshop. All would take part in the refinishing. If the pieces got damaged by the kids, then they got a faux finish. Then I would sell the pieces. Taught all those kids many skills and fostered a love of tools and craftsmanship in them.We all gained. We all learned and we made ends meet. :)

 

Sounds fun and very creative of you to get all the kids involved...I however, was not as intelligent...although I designed and sewed all my kids' costumes, as I'm a craft person extraordinaire (if I may so boast :) ), had all five of them in sports...still I think the guilt is well-placed (often 4-6 hrs a day studying). In hindsight I know that I would have done it differently had I not been religiously indoctrinated for so many years :(

[dduckwessel]

I did both as they grew older and indeed it was difficult.Still is infact, as I have a son with developmental delays and Aspergers. We may not have quantity time, but we do make quality time. :)

 

I work with what is termed a low-spectrum autistic boy (10 yrs old - although I personally think he's very intelligent) and his high-functioning Aspergers twin brother. Do you follow a special diet for your son?...and can we discuss this on another thread? :)

[pamela]

Yes but the problem in most of the world is quantity not quality. I am very concerned that the developing world is losing ground (what I meant by the demise of our civilisation!):

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_pop_gro_rat-people-population-growth-rate

http://www.worldmapper.org/display.php?selected=2

 

The nations with the greatest population growth are the poorest (which everyone already knows). Islamic culture fosters big (6-8 children) families and plays a huge role in many of those countries [which would be fine if the culture was not, in my mind, highly repressive both to women and supposed infidels (anyone who does not follow Islam)]:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_isl_sun-religion-islam-sunni (there's another list for Shia although I don't know the differences between sunni and Shia)

 

I see a direct correlation between religion and poverty...to me a harbinger for disaster!

Yeah religion has caused more than a fair few problems in history. Aa far as Islam goes, I had the opportunity years ago to be a liason for more than a few immigrant families new to this country.Twas nice to see them recently;beautiful young women with degrees and opportunities they may not have otherwise known.

 

Sounds fun and very creative of you to get all the kids involved...I however, was not as intelligent...although I designed and sewed all my kids' costumes, as I'm a craft person extraordinaire (if I may so boast :) ), had all five of them in sports...still I think the guilt is well-placed (often 4-6 hrs a day studying). In hindsight I know that I would have done it differently had I not been religiously indoctrinated for so many years :(

hehehe! I too crafted an astronaut costume and a firefighters as well. Five? you're lucky you even had a mind left :P

Unfortunately indoctrination can present problems, but you did the best you could given your circumstances. :)

[pamela]

I work with what is termed a low-spectrum autistic boy (10 yrs old - although I personally think he's very intelligent) and his high-functioning Aspergers twin brother. Do you follow a special diet for your son?...and can we discuss this on another thread? :)

Yes, I do actually and would love to discuss in another thread :)

[dduckwessel]

Yes, I do actually and would love to discuss in another thread :)

 

How about in Medical Science: "What is autism (and where's my spell checker?)?"

[pamela]

How about in Medical Science: "What is autism (and where's my spell checker?)?"

sure sounds good to me

spellchecker? erm no, dictionary.com :P

[dduckwessel]

Aa far as Islam goes, I had the opportunity years ago to be a liason for more than a few immigrant families new to this country.Twas nice to see them recently;beautiful young women with degrees and opportunities they may not have otherwise known.

 

it's a far cry from the OP but I have to ask...they are certainly fortunate but are they still practising Muslims? It may seem like a strange thing for me to say in light of my theology posts but I'm of the mind that good education should eradicate indoctrination...if they're still religious then I must wonder...are they simply 'educated Muslims'?

 

Knowing what I do about religious indoctrination I believe I can say with a lot of authority that if they're still Muslim, they're still indoctrinated!!

[dduckwessel]

sure sounds good to me

spellchecker? erm no, dictionary.com :P

 

the "where's my spellchecker" was a part of the topic heading :)

[pamela]

the "where's my spellchecker" was a part of the topic heading :)

oh heheh!

[dduckwessel]

oh, no one goes easy here, duck, female or not, so feel free to be yourself knowing full well we treat both genders equally :)

 

I must disagree Pamela; I'm almost certain that I noticed a distinct difference as soon as I said that I was female [the exception being Turtle (no disrespect intended) but even there I think that he too toned it down].

 

 

However, I don't want to be presumptuous - we must ask the gents themselves...

[dduckwessel]

I wonder if I can add my summation in respect of the OP (seeing as we have got far from it)!

 

If women don't do the mothering, then who will? And everything hinges on whomever does the mothering to do a good job. One would assume that regarding such an important societal need, much more time and effort (education and finance) would be spent ensuring its success. Good mothering is not instinctive, it's learned. I personally think that the Swedes are closest to getting it right. :)

[pamela]

I must disagree Pamela; I'm almost certain that I noticed a distinct difference as soon as I said that I was female [the exception being Turtle (no disrespect intended) but even there I think that he too toned it down].

 

 

However, I don't want to be presumptuous - we must ask the gents themselves...

hmmmn hadn't noticed. I reckon everyone should speak for themselves. I was merely referring to the moderators and admins as having witnessed our responses over the years- I should have clarified. :)

[dduckwessel]

hmmmn hadn't noticed. I reckon everyone should speak for themselves. I was merely referring to the moderators and admins as having witnessed our responses over the years- I should have clarified. :)

 

Happy New Year.

 

I now think that it may have been that many of the males were thinking about the topic and had just not worked it out in their own minds yet! :)

 

CraigD's post is thought-provoking and it has been heavy on my mind. This is the kind of information that both women and men need to be forearmed before they have children but sadly a good portion of them are not exposed to it.

 

Did you notice the difference between our parenting skills? You let your chilren learn 'hands on' (which is as it should be), whereas I sewed the costumes, etc. For much of it I did not get my children involved in the process! Granted I was so busy I think some of it was just that it was easier (and faster) for me to do it! However, that's not the proper method for helping children to learn!

[dduckwessel]

That sounds such a good ruse! Male, wakened in night by raucous infant. Annoyance. Solution- convey infant surreptitiously to somnolent female. Plug infant into mammary glands. To suckle, left/right. Female stirs: "Oh...what's that honey?" "Hush dear, go back to sleep". Unplug infant, now satiated and quiescent. Carry infant back to crib thing. Resume male slumber. (I think the burping, changing, cuddling bit, was probably of short duration. Or largely imaginary)

 

You might pick up a few pointers from Donk, MacPhee! He has his priorities straight. His wife was probably sleep deprived from caring for an infant and this kind of help would be very welcome.

[pamela]

Happy New Year.

 

I now think that it may have been that many of the males were thinking about the topic and had just not worked it out in their own minds yet! :)

 

CraigD's post is thought-provoking and it has been heavy on my mind. This is the kind of information that both women and men need to be forearmed before they have children but sadly a good portion of them are not exposed to it.

 

Did you notice the difference between our parenting skills? You let your chilren learn 'hands on' (which is as it should be), whereas I sewed the costumes, etc. For much of it I did not get my children involved in the process! Granted I was so busy I think some of it was just that it was easier (and faster) for me to do it! However, that's not the proper method for helping children to learn!

Happy New Year!!!

Well it really comes down to how you were raised. My dad was eager to share his interests and hobbies, and I was eager to learn. My mom was more into reading and writing so I absorbed that as well. And of course, when I was old enough to help, she was all over that.I remember being about age 3 and using a lint brush to clean the carpeted stairs :P

Give yourself some credit duck, raising 5 kids takes some serious dedication,love and strength beyond measure :)