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Nobody Has Got Ghost According To Quran


Emre_1974tr
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Unlike the traditional Islamic doctrine which is under the influence of sects and hadith fabrications, in the real Islamic doctrine of the Quran people have NO ghosts/ souls/ spirits. People do NOT have a divine component, a soul, a spirit nor a ghost.

 

Everything created in the universe is material, physical and real, NOT an illusion. (for example the first man Adam was made from clay element and the jinn was made from fire element)

 

Heaven and Hell are NOT mental delusions. They are “physical” places created in another universe.

 

Unfortunately, terms such as soul- spirit (an immortal divine component, a ghost that can exist on its own without the body even after death) have succeed to enter Islam due to wrong translations -which are made under the influence of hadith fabrications- and Islamic mysticism (sufism). But in the original text of the Quran (Arabic version), they are NOT available.

In the Quran, people have “nafs”, which is the equivalent of “life energy”, “ego”, “character”. People are born, they die and they will be “physically” recreated in the Hereafter:

 

Does the human being think that We will not gather his bones? Indeed, We were able to make his fingertips (The Resurrection, 75: 3-4)

 

As also can be seen in the verses, people do NOT have souls/ spirits, they only have “nefs”, which dies together with the bodily functions. And as again can be understood from the verses “most” of the people will be recreated in the Judgment Day. We use the word “most” because there are some exceptions. The Quran gives the examples of very meritorious people, such as martyrs or prophets and on the other edge some deadly sinners, such as the Pharaoh who committed outrage to his people.

 

These exceptional people have already started to reap what they have sown. They are either rewarded in Heaven (physically) or punished in Hell (physically).

 

Examples to the righteous who go to Heaven immediately after their death:

 

· Do not count that those who are killed in the sake of God are dead. No, they are alive at their Lord receiving provisions. Happy with what God has granted them from His favor, and they rejoice for those who have yet to follow them. There is no fear over them nor do they grieve. (The Family of Imran, 3: 169-170)

 

· A man came running from the farthest part of the city, saying: "O my people, follow the messengers. Follow those who do not ask you for any wage, and are guided. Why should I not serve the One who initiated me, and to Him is your ultimate return? Shall I take gods besides Him? If the Gracious intends any harm for me, their intercession cannot help me in the least, nor can they save me. Then I would be clearly astray. I have acknowledged your Lord, so listen to me! It was said, "Enter Paradise." He said "Oh, how I wish my people only knew of what my Lord has forgiven me, and made me of the honored ones."We did not send down upon his people after him soldiers from the sky; for there was no need to send them down. For all it took was one scream, whereupon they were stilled. (36:20-29)

 

Example to the disbelievers who committed “deadly” sins and tyranny:

 

· So God protected him from the evil of what they schemed, while the people of Pharaoh have incurred the worst retribution. The fire, which they will be exposed to morning and evening, and on the day when the moment is established: "Admit the people of Pharaoh into the most severe of the retribution." (The Believer, 40: 45-46)

 

And the following verses refer to the common/ordinary people, possibly the majority of the disbelievers:

 

· The horn will be blown, whereupon they will rise from the graves rushing towards their Lord. They will say, "Woe to us. Who has resurrected us from our resting place? This is what the Gracious had promised. The messengers were truthful!" (Ya sin, 36: 51-52)

 

In the Quran the word “Spirit” only refers to the “Holy Ghost/Spirit” and to the messages It brought. For example:

 

We gave Moses the book, and after him, We sent the messengers. Later We gave Jesus son of Mary the clear proofs, and We supported Him with the Holy Spirit. Is it that every time a messenger comes to you with what your minds do not desire, you become arrogant? A group of them you deny, and a group of them you kill! (2:87)

 

Such messengers, We have preferred some to others; some of them talked to God, and He raised some of them in ranks, and We gave Jesus son of Mary the proofs and We supported him with the Holy Spirit. Had God wished, the people after them would not have fought after the proofs had come to them, but they disputed, some of them acknowledged and some of them did not appreciate. Had God wished they would not have fought, but God does whatever He wishes. (2:253)

 

God said, "O Jesus son of Mary, recall My blessings upon you and your mother that I supported you with the Holy Spirit; you spoke to the people in the cradle and in old age; and I taught you the book and the wisdom, and the Torah, and the Injeel; and you would create from clay the shape of a bird, then blow into it and it becomes a bird by My leave; and you heal the blind and the leper by My leave; and you brought out the dead by My leave. I have restrained the Children of Israel from you, that you came to them with proofs; but those who rejected amongst them said, "This is an obvious magic!" (5:110)

 

He sends down the angels with the Spirit by His command upon whom He wishes of His servants: "That you shall warn that there is no god but I, so be aware of Me." (16:2)

 

They ask you concerning the Spirit. Say, "The Spirit is from the command of my Lord, and the knowledge you were given was but very little.” (17:85)

It was sent down with the trusted Spirit. (26:193)

 

Possessor of the highest ranks, the One with the Throne. He sends the Spirit with His command upon whom He wills from His servants, so that they may warn of the day of Summoning. (40:15)

 

You will not find any people who acknowledge God and the Last day befriending those who oppose God and His messenger, even if they were their parents, or their children, or their siblings, or their tribe. For these, He decrees trust into their hearts, and supports them with a Spirit from Him, and He admits them into paradises with rivers flowing beneath, wherein they will abide. God is pleased with them, and they are pleased with Him. These are the party of God. Most assuredly, the party of God are the winners. (58:22)

 

The day when the Spirit and the angels stand in line, none will speak unless the Gracious permits him and he speaks what is true. (78:38)

 

Some dangers of thinking that people have spirits/ souls:

 

- Having a belief that people have spirits often leads up to the sanctification of the humans. It leads people to associate himself / herself with God.

 

- It also contributes to building up a strong belief of spiritual evolution. As a result of this false belief, in order to evolve spiritually, people praise suffering and pain. When they encounter a disastrous situation, instead of getting out of it, they welcome it and take it as a reward. However, according to the Quran, the bad things that come to us are either to test us or a result of our sins, our own malignancy.

 

- Spiritualists regard life as a school where we, as students, learn and mature. These people maintain that suffering / pain is a must for spiritual evolution. Thus, it turns the evil into hidden heroes having a special (key) role in the spiritual evolution process. Those who can read between the lines can easily realize that it glorifies the evil (even Satan). Also spiritualists

tolerate the immoral behaviors of the ones who are not spiritually evolved (!)

 

- Belief in the spirits opens the door to reincarnation, which means that we will be different creatures (different gender, different personality, different appearance etc.) in our other lives (!) In other words, it means that a person that dies is gone forever, which is actually a very materialistic point of view again if you read between the lines.

 

- Some spiritualists think that death is something positive as spirit confined to the physical body will be set free and unite with God and become one. This deviant view also praises suicides.

 

- People, who believe that people have spirits, mostly swap the belief for the Judgment Day with reincarnation and thus, they reject the belief in reward and punishment in the afterlife and eliminate Heaven and Hell, attributing symbolic meanings to both. In addition, they adopt ascetic lifestyles and scorn the beauties, provisions God gives us (in this world and in the other world).

 

- People who believe in the spirits are more likely to be cheated by the jinns.

 

Regards

Emre

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Dude - you're right about people not having a divine component. You're wrong about heaven and hell being places in some "other" universe. Heaven and hell is the carrot and the stick in getting large numbers of people to bend to your will if you're a bronze age wizard with ulterior motives and a penchant for bullshit.

 

Unfortunately, I didn't get past the third line. But the above is my 2c's, for what its worth.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Like the Christian and Jewish bibles, the Quran is entirely a book of he said he said, hearsay. Like the Christian and Jewish bibles, there is not one word penned by the hand of some alleged divine being. It is hand-me-down hearsay. During the 23 years it was allegedly spoken to Muhammad by some angel he wrote not one word of it down. Instead he instructed his illiterate followers to memorize and recite it until they learned to write. It is a book written by men to control men in an era long past. In a time where people believed in magic instead of science. Turn on the fans and get out the stones, it is time to get rid of the smoke and mirrors that is known as divine beings.

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  • 2 weeks later...

soul = body/mortal

spirit = God's image/immortal

 

According to the Bible, human beings have both.

 

Your body is attached to the earth but your spirit to what Plato referred to as the real (perfect) reality.

 

 

According to Quantum Physics, this seeming reality is a hologram (pixels generated from somewhere else), while the Bible refers to it as Satan's psuedo-paradise.

 

 

Deja-vu (reliving the same experience) is the evidence that this is a hologram and we are looping, a rip in the fabric of time in this non-reality. Most people lose this spiritual sensitivity in their early to mid twenties.

 

I'm sure you've seen holographic images where there's a glitch and they repeat, it's very much like that.

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Ironically, this is also about the time when most people stop experimenting with drugs.

 

Those experiences happen in lucid states because otherwise people wouldn't remember them with such clarity.

 

So many people experience Deja-vu and for that reason alone we should look into it.

 

Deja-vu is the feeling that 'I've done this before' as something that previously happened. If it already happened that suggests that we're replaying the same events (looping) over and over. It also suggests the universe is not static.

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From the Urantia Book:

 

Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.

 

As a reality in human spiritual experience God is not a mystery. But when an attempt is made to make plain the realities of the spirit world to the physical minds of the material order, mystery appears: mysteries so subtle and so profound that only the faith-grasp of the God-knowing mortal can achieve the philosophic miracle of the recognition of the Infinite by the finite, the discernment of the eternal God by the evolving mortals of the material worlds of time and space.

 

God is to science a cause, to philosophy an idea, to religion a person, even the loving heavenly Father. God is to the scientist a primal force, to the philosopher a hypothesis of unity, to the religionist a living spiritual experience. Man’s inadequate concept of the personality of the Universal Father can be improved only by man’s spiritual progress in the universe and will become truly adequate only when the pilgrims of time and space finally attain the divine embrace of the living God on Paradise.

 

Human personality is the time-space image-shadow cast by the divine Creator personality. And no actuality can ever be adequately comprehended by an examination of its shadow. Shadows should be interpreted in terms of the true substance.

 

Some degree of moral affinity and spiritual harmony is essential to friendship between two persons... Even to approach the knowing of a divine personality, all of man’s personality endowments must be wholly consecrated to the effort; halfhearted, partial devotion will be unavailing.

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soul = body/mortal

spirit = God's image/immortal

 

According to the Bible, human beings have both.

Dduckwessel, what Bible references support these claims – that “soul” refers to the mortal body, “spirit” to the immortal image of God, and that human beings have both?

 

Your body is attached to the earth but your spirit to what Plato referred to as the real (perfect) reality.

Again, what reference to the writings of Plato support your claim that my spirit is a platonic form?

 

Remember that, even in non-science forums such as the theology forum, we’re all obliged to supply references, best in the form of hyperlinks, to support our claims.

 

According to Quantum Physics, this seeming reality is a hologram (pixels generated from somewhere else), while the Bible refers to it as Satan's psuedo-paradise.

The common definition of a hologram is not “pixels generated from somewhere else”, but rather a recording of a light wavefront that can be used to precisely reproduce that wavefront – in short, a “whole drawing” of the light (usually) from an object of interest.

 

You may be referring to a the holographic principle, a property of various quantum gravity and string theories. The word “holographic” in it is used to make an analogy between how the photographic film of hologram contains more information about the 3-dimensional object that’s image it captures than an ordinary photographic film, and how these theories allow all of the information contained in an n-dimensional space to be contained in a (n-1)-dimensional boundary of that space. It’s only an analogy, though, not an equivalence, just as the raisin-bread analogy for the expansion of space isn’t meant to imply that the universe is actually a ball of raisin bread dough.

 

Deja-vu (reliving the same experience) is the evidence that this is a hologram and we are looping, a rip in the fabric of time in this non-reality. Most people lose this spiritual sensitivity in their early to mid twenties.

 

I'm sure you've seen holographic images where there's a glitch and they repeat, it's very much like that.

Though Déjà vu and similar perceptual “glitches” have been described for a long time (Though the term first appeared around 1876, and was widely know by the late 1920s, I suspect the feeling has been known since prehistoric times, appearing in unwritten and written literature as human language became sufficient to describe it), as best I can surmise, the belief that it reflected not a minor psychological dysfunction or a paranormal ability, but the perception of a flaw in reality, wasn’t widespread until motion photography acquainted many people with the idea of that we’d eventually know by the term simulated or virtual reality, lending credence to notion that our actual reality might be in some way artificial. I’m aware of well-developed treatments of the idea in SF stories by the early 1960s (eg: Phillip K Dick’s work), which I’d say reached a popular zenith in the 1999 movies The Matrix and The Thirteenth Floor.

 

However, that Déjà vu is a sign that the physical universe is a (occasionally defective) simulation, while an intriguing idea, is a fictional one. Unlike the characters in these movies, we haven’t discovered that we are living in a simulated reality. Déjà vu is, without at present a reasonable psychological doubt, an anomaly of memory, not a distinct perception of reality, simulated or otherwise.

 

It would be frightfully cool if we discovered we were living in a simulated reality. That there have been engaging and thought-provoking stories about it, though, is not evidence that we are.

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Dduckwessel, what Bible references support these claims – that “soul” refers to the mortal body, “spirit” to the immortal image of God, and that human beings have both?

 

The interpretation of both spirit and soul from Hebrew and Greek is wind or spirit as in an ‘unsubstantial force' or, something that has ‘no material substance’, making it appear as though they are the same thing, but they are not.

 

The Hebrew word for soul is nephesh and it means ‘a breathing creature’ as in human beings, animals, birds, etc.

 

Psuche is the Greek word for soul and translated means, ‘the animal sentiment principle only’.

 

Spirit in Hebrew is defined as, wind, breath, spirit (of heaven), movement of air, the breath of nostrils or mouth, which is somewhat vague. However, the Greek translation is not confusing in the least as it refers to something supernatural.

 

Once I found the Greek meaning, the Hebrew definition became clear. Spirit is referring to an immaterial force from heaven.

 

The word Spirit is always used in the context of ‘the wind of God’s breathing’ or ‘the breath from God’s nostrils or mouth’ or ‘the breath of heaven’. Therefore, the exact meaning of spirit is ‘a supernatural force that is breathed from God's nostrils or mouth’.

 

 

Again, what reference to the writings of Plato support your claim that my spirit is a platonic form?

 

"It was Plato who combined the Heraclitean doctrine of flux and the Parmenidean principle of reality as unchanging to show that there is a distinction between the two realms: an intelligible one grasped by the mind (by intuition and reflection) and a sensory one grasped through the senses. The former is unchanging and immaterial; the latter mutable and material. The world in which we live, according to Plato, is a world that “is a process of becoming and perishing and never really is” (Timaeus). Plato thought that for something to truly exist it must be eternal and unchanging. Plato conceived of a realm of eternal and unchangeable forms that existed independently of our changing, perishing, physical world which is but a shadow of the “real” unchanging, eternal realm. This concept is demonstrated quite clearly in Plato’s famous–albeit spooky–Allegory of the Cave."

 

 

 

 

Remember that, even in non-science forums such as the theology forum, we’re all obliged to supply references, best in the form of hyperlinks, to support our claims.

 

previous quote is from: http://jesseturri.com/wordpress/?p=2525

 

 

 

The common definition of a hologram is not “pixels generated from somewhere else”, but rather a recording of a light wavefront that can be used to precisely reproduce that wavefront – in short, a “whole drawing” of the light (usually) from an object of interest.

 

notice the words in the first url:

 

8&rlz=1T4SUNC_enCA370CA370&q=pixels+generated+from+somewhere+else

 

 

You may be referring to a the holographic principle, a property of various quantum gravity and string theories. The word “holographic” in it is used to make an analogy between how the photographic film of hologram contains more information about the 3-dimensional object that’s image it captures than an ordinary photographic film, and how these theories allow all of the information contained in an n-dimensional space to be contained in a (n-1)-dimensional boundary of that space. It’s only an analogy, though, not an equivalence, just as the raisin-bread analogy for the expansion of space isn’t meant to imply that the universe is actually a ball of raisin bread dough.

 

 

However, that Déjà vu is a sign that the physical universe is a (occasionally defective) simulation, while an intriguing idea, is a fictional one.

 

Do you have reasonable proof it's fictional?

 

Déjà vu is, without at present a reasonable psychological doubt, an anomaly of memory, not a distinct perception of reality, simulated or otherwise.

 

Has this been verified?

 

It would be frightfully cool if we discovered we were living in a simulated reality. That there have been engaging and thought-provoking stories about it, though, is not evidence that we are.

 

"Remember that, even in non-science forums such as the theology forum, we’re all obliged to supply references, best in the form of hyperlinks, to support our claims."

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The common definition of a hologram is not “pixels generated from somewhere else”, but rather a recording of a light wavefront that can be used to precisely reproduce that wavefront – in short, a “whole drawing” of the light (usually) from an object of interest.

 

sorry, I accidentally posted only half of the link:

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=0h&oq=pixels+&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4SUNC_enCA370CA370&q=pixels+generated+from+somewhere+else

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DD, do you have reasonable proof that the moon isn't made of green cheese?

 

 

You are just so funny!

 

I'm speaking of there being a spiritual component to the universe, not just physical realities.

 

Science deals with physical realities and I applaud and support those efforts wholeheartedly. However, Physics hardly deals with realities as the common person understands them.

 

Theoretically, atoms didn't exist until science said they did! Did they exist before they were discovered - of course they did but no one knew about them! Out of that grew the discovery of subatomic particles, which we would never have learned without first knowing about atoms. One thing paved the way for the other.

 

I'm proposing that there's another element to our universe that much of the scientific world has not yet discovered because it does not follow the same rules as the physical universe. Some Physicists (called Quantum Quackery by other physicists) however, have found evidence of this other element.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927960.200-quantum-reality-the-many-meanings-of-life.html

 

http://www.newscientist.com/topic/quantum-world

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The common definition of a hologram is not “pixels generated from somewhere else”, but rather a recording of a light wavefront that can be used to precisely reproduce that wavefront – in short, a “whole drawing” of the light (usually) from an object of interest.

notice the words in the first url:

 

8&rlz=1T4SUNC_enCA370CA370&q=pixels+generated+from+somewhere+else

http://www.google.com/search?q=pixels+generated+from+somewhere+else is just the URL of a http GET request to the google search engine. It no more supports the claim that a hologram is “pixels generated from somewhere else” than http://www.google.com/search?q=left+is+right+and+up+is+down supports the claim that “left is right and up is down”.

 

The results of the first search, refined to this search for the exact text, finds almost the verbatim text of you post on hypography and some other forum websites. A link to posts containing the same claim isn’t valid support of that claim.

 

I get the impression you’ve not much personal experience with holographic photography, dduckwessel, as you seem to be arguing against a well-known definition of a well-known thing. Please trust me, as I have a fair amount of academic and professional experience with the technology: holograms are not by definition images from other universes, artificial reality simulating computers, or other “somewhere elses” – they are simply recordings of a precise 2-dimensional slice of the light from an object of interest, that, when displayed properly (typically, when illuminated with monochrome laser light), reproduces precisely some of the original light from the object. This is what the term “hologram” mean, entomologically: a record (gram) or the entire/whole (holo) light information about a thing.

 

This is not to say that a computer cannot generate a holographic image of an artificial scene - that is, that no holograph can come from “somewhere else” - but that they’re not required to be. The term “hologram” no more implies something generated by a computer or an alternate universe that the term “photograph” implies a picture taken in a specific country or room.

 

I’ll reply to your other replies when I have enough free time.

 

:thumbs_up Thank you, dduckwessel, for taking my questions seriously, and taking the time and effort to give links to your sources. In my experience, sourcing claims is one of the main practices [strikethrough]divides[/strikethrough] dividing good internet forums from bad ones. (checking your grammar before hitting "submit" is another :embarass:)

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You are just so funny!
I like being funny, but so do you as it seems.

 

Addressing an objection that there is no proof of X by asking if your opponent has any proof that there is no proof of X is decidedly comical; more seriously, it is not sound and solid method of debate. It isn't as justified as a quip underlining this same shortcoming. Just a matter of who is funnier and who has less of a point, but mind that we are trying to keep things reasonably within an aim of philosophical debate here otherwise we would call our forums by some other name.

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You're absolutely right I know virtually nothing of holographic photography and I don't mean to question your academic expertise. I meant hologram in a Quantum weirdness way:

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn9930-instant-expert-quantum-world.html

I though you meant it that way when I posted

You may be referring to a the holographic principle, a property of various quantum gravity and string theories. The word “holographic” in it is used to make an analogy between how the photographic film of hologram contains more information about the 3-dimensional object that’s image it captures than an ordinary photographic film, and how these theories allow all of the information contained in an n-dimensional space to be contained in a (n-1)-dimensional boundary of that space. It’s only an analogy, though, not an equivalence, just as the raisin-bread analogy for the expansion of space isn’t meant to imply that the universe is actually a ball of raisin bread dough.

‘t Hooft and Susskind’s holographic principle (and I’d be ignoring a IMHO even cooler – and more up my alley – related idea if I didn’t mention here the Bekenstein bound) is cool (but, like most string theory, frightfully difficult :edizzy:) physics, and their choice of analogy/metaphor in naming it smart and useful, but as with any analogy, runs the risk of reification – forgetting that it’s an analogy. It proposes that “the universe is analogous to a hologram”, not “the universe is a hologram”. It helps to keep in mind that, the way Susskind means it, the metaphorical “holographic film” involved is the event horizon of a black hole (including, theoretically, a big one containing the entire universe), and the image it renders has more than the usual 3 (eg: 10, 11, or 26, in the most common string theories). The holographic principle is cutting-edge weird, only in the most metaphorical way related to the familiar (ie: most people have seen one) holographic technology that gives us 3-dimensional pictures from flat 2-D films.

 

All this wanders far from this thread's original topic of spirits, souls, what these words mean, whether they physically exist, etc. – but personally, I find the detour a pleasant one, and hope I'm not alone in this. :)

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