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Can Science And Religion Coexist Peacefully?


kowalskil

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I doubt it. Science is empirical, religion is dogmatic. At best, science can view religion as a failed hypothesis. The argument goes that the two operate in different spheres and should each be able to do its thing in peace. But that's exactly where the problem lies, because religion makes claims that interfere in science's domain. Religion makes claims that their god, or gods, are responsible for people recovering from illness, for physical occurrences like rainfall, etc. And to expect a failed hypothesis to be respected for no other reason than the sheer number of people who take it to be the truth, is disingenuous. The Truth is not a democracy, and should not be held as such. It's immaterial if there are 2 billion Christians world-wide, or only five. Without any evidence apart from the self-referential Bible, it is not worthy of any more respect than the notion that the moon is made of cheese. For that same argument, Hogwarts must be a real place, because it is written about in the Harry Potter books.

 

So, to make a long story short, I don't see how religion and science can peacefully co-exist and why religion should expect any respect other than the same passing glance a scientist will give any other failed hypothesis. Why would it be deserving of respect, in any case? Can I demand of you to respect the color green, because I believe that it has magical properties? That's roughly how ridiculous religions' expectation of undeserving respect is to the non-religious.

 

Yes, a conceptual structure based axioms, like mathematics, can be called dogmatic.

 

Ludwik

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Yes, a conceptual structure based axioms, like mathematics, can be called dogmatic.

 

Ludwik

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Only if one is forced to keep with the axioms.

 

For example, geometry would be dogmatic if the practitioners were forced ascribe to, and use, Euclid's 5th postulate. But, this is not the case. Mathematics would be dogmatic if one had to begin with the Peano axioms. In neither case is this true, therefore mathematics is only dogmatic in the sense that conclusions must follow logically from axioms. In other words, it is only dogmatic if dogmatic means "logical".

 

Of course, it doesn't mean that.

 

~modest

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Yes, a conceptual structure based axioms, like mathematics, can be called dogmatic.

 

Ludwik

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.

You are free not to follow the rules of maths. You will not burn in hell. However, not following math's "dogma" has demonstrable negative results, in this life. You don't have to wait till you die to find out that you got that one particular linear equation wrong.

 

"Dogma" is a set of rules that is followed for its own sake, with no demonstrable effects either ways. The truth in axioms, on the other hand, can be readily established.

 

Interesting point you raised here, Ludwik, but I don't think it's gonna fly.

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I just remembered today that I have another anecdote of unlikely healing. A few years ago I had a lump in my throat that persisted for some time, so I went to my primary care physician. He was concerned it might be cancer, so he referred me to a specialist and scheduled an ultrasound of the lump. The specialist diagnosed it as a Thyroglossal Duct Cyst. He said they are hardly ever cancerous, but it could continue to grow and become a problem, and he strongly recomended surgery. It was the beginning of haying season, and I don't like the idea of surgery unless I am in iminant danger of death, so I asked him if there was any chance the cyst would go away on it's own. He said that would be "highly unlikely" and he pressured me further to consent to surgery. I told him that unless this thing was killing me, I had too much work to do to take any time for the surgery, and I would be back after the crops were in unless the cyst went away on it's own. I never went back. The cyst the doctor was so certain required surgical removal went away and hasn't returned.

 

I don't claim it was miraculous, but I wonder if I had less faith and had been scared by the good doctor, would I not be worse off. I would have consented to unnecessary surgery and faced possible complications. Scare tactics from doctors do not inspire confidence in them or the science.

 

 

Of course, had that lump continued to grow and had a serious impact on your ability to speak or breath, you'd have felt foolish for not heeding the doctor's warning (I say "warning" because that's what it would have been if he'd been right. "Scare tactic" can only be applied once you've determined he was wrong).

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Hello. My 1st week here. My only religion is the facts, even if the vast majority of them are unknown to me. ........ Here's an example of religion and science and their common origin : The place on earth where we get the average length of a degree of latitude and therefore the figure we need to calculate the nautical mile and a whole list of cannonical measurements is @ 51'N. There's 16 hours of daylight there on the Summer Solstice. At Noon that day, the sun is dividing 16 hours of daylight into 8 hours, 8 more hours, then 8 hours of darkness. The sun at it's absolute highest over the place that defines earth gives us 888.... In Luke, the angel Gabriel tells Mary the holy spirit (sun) at it's most high (noon summer solstice) will overshadow her and she'll give birth to Jesus (888). They didn't use gematria for nothing....oh yeah, on the summer solstice @ 51'N the sun rises 40'N of east and sets 40'N of west. On the winter solstice the sun rises 40'S of east and sets 40'S of west, making a perfect cross that doesn't occur at many other latitudes. ......... If only there were an artifact ......... Peace.

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Hello. My 1st week here. My only religion is the facts, even if the vast majority of them are unknown to me. ........ Here's an example of religion and science and their common origin : The place on earth where we get the average length of a degree of latitude and therefore the figure we need to calculate the nautical mile and a whole list of cannonical measurements is @ 51'N. There's 16 hours of daylight there on the Summer Solstice. At Noon that day, the sun is dividing 16 hours of daylight into 8 hours, 8 more hours, then 8 hours of darkness. The sun at it's absolute highest over the place that defines earth gives us 888.... In Luke, the angel Gabriel tells Mary the holy spirit (sun) at it's most high (noon summer solstice) will overshadow her and she'll give birth to Jesus (888). They didn't use gematria for nothing....oh yeah, on the summer solstice @ 51'N the sun rises 40'N of east and sets 40'N of west. On the winter solstice the sun rises 40'S of east and sets 40'S of west, making a perfect cross that doesn't occur at many other latitudes. ......... If only there were an artifact ......... Peace.

Just wondering...do you hear God too when you play Black Sabbath backwards at 78 speed? If so, have you confessed this to the FSM?

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Just wondering...do you hear God too when you play Black Sabbath backwards at 78 speed? If so, have you confessed this to the FSM?

stoneman -- ecaeP ....... .reywal a neeb evah dluohs uoY .tniop ruoy eugra ot woh wonk yllaer uoY !woW .yalC yeH

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stoneman -- ecaeP ....... .reywal a neeb evah dluohs uoY .tniop ruoy eugra ot woh wonk yllaer uoY !woW .yalC yeH

┴ɥǝɹǝ ʍɐs ɹǝɐllʎ uo doıuʇ ʇo ɐɹƃnǝ sıuɔǝ sɔıǝuɔǝ ıs ɐqonʇ ʇɥǝ ɟɐɔʇs ɹǝƃɐɹplǝss oɟ qǝlıǝɟs ɐup ɹǝlıƃıou ıs ɐqonʇ qǝlıǝɟs ɹǝƃɐɹplǝss oɟ ʇɥǝ ɟɐɔʇs¡

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┴ɥǝɹǝ ʍɐs ɹǝɐllʎ uo doıuʇ ʇo ɐɹƃnǝ sıuɔǝ sɔıǝuɔǝ ıs ɐqonʇ ʇɥǝ ɟɐɔʇs ɹǝƃɐɹplǝss oɟ qǝlıǝɟs ɐup ɹǝlıƃıou ıs ɐqonʇ qǝlıǝɟs ɹǝƃɐɹplǝss oɟ ʇɥǝ ɟɐɔʇs¡

 

I like that saying, C1ay. Do you mind if I mirror it and then borrow it? :D

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Sorry Ludwik. I was only wondering if there was any connection between two scenerios, one of importance to science and earth measurements, one of importance to Christian faith. ........ The replies have ranged from playing Black Sabbath backwards to why don't I try drugs and hallucinate. Attacking my avatar because there's faces on it. It's a real artifact found in New Jersey, but that's not what I thought this thread was about......... Again, Ludwik, Sorry .......... nrn ............ Peace.

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