Communist-capitalist

[Queso]

i think the averages between sweden and america are the same because america has a more diverse culture, more people working less, more people working more. this is only an assumption, but i would guess that most people have the same word hours in sweden.

for instance. a person could work 6 hours a week, or 70, in america.

they also could in sweden, of course, i'm just saying in america it's probably a lot more common.

[Fishteacher73]

for instance. a person could work 6 hours a week, or 70, in america.

they also could in sweden, of course, i'm just saying in america it's probably a lot more common.

 

It is a lot moe comme in the states because it is much more necessary. In a society in which half the bankruptcies are due to medical costs a system with socialized medicine obviously requires less working hours to exist in.

[Biochemist]

It is a lot moe comme in the states because it is much more necessary. In a society in which half the bankruptcies are due to medical costs a system with socialized medicine obviously requires less working hours to exist in.

Sure, but if we were to compare the average person in the US who is bankrupt to the average person on the planet, the US bankrupt person is more economically viable. Further, after bankruptcy, they have access to healthcare in the US (through the Medicaid system) that is superior to what is available to Europe and Canada.

 

Bankruptcy itself is an artifact of a capitalist system. You can't go bankrupt under communism (because you have no assets to protect, and usually no creditors), but you can have a far lower standard of living.

 

On this notion of US-European "happiness", most people are allowed to go where they want, within some constraints. Most folks in the US (even those with direct European experience) would choose to live in the US. Doesn't that make them, by definition, "happier" here?

[Fishteacher73]

they have access to healthcare in the US (through the Medicaid system) that is superior to what is available to Europe and Canada.

 

I have lived under both and would without a doubt prefer the Swedish healthcare system to Medicaid.

 

On this notion of US-European "happiness", most people are allowed to go where they want, within some constraints. Most folks in the US (even those with direct European experience) would choose to live in the US. Doesn't that make them, by definition, "happier" here?

 

Again, I disagree, having lived in the US and overseas, I would prefer to live elsewhere. I have specific constraints that do not make that a viable option (Ex-wife, kids, etc). As for you conclusion that the average US citizen is happier, I would have to disagree. The media portrays an image of good happy americans and the general population is told that they are happier than people elsewhere, but how many Joe Citizens have actually investigated the situation? Not many I would wager.

[Fishteacher73]

BTW I do not argue for communism, but for socialism. Communism and Fascism are the evil twins of socialism and capitalism.

[bumab]

Communism and Fascism are the evil twins of socialism and capitalism.

 

Good quote!

[C1ay]

In a democracy, people may vote for a Socialist or for a Communist gov't, or for any other option that is candidated. Next time they can vote differently. Who can complain, one way or the other, about the state stealing? So long as it remains a real democracy, of course. A regime is a different pair of trousers.

 

One must be careful with real democray too. As soon as the people learn that they can vote themselves gifts from the public fund it leads to anarchy. Past democracies have crumbled because of this. That's why he U.S. was formed as a republic utilizing representatives. It has some drawbacks but so far it's the longest lasting democracy I know of/

[infamous]

BTW I do not argue for communism, but for socialism. Communism and Fascism are the evil twins of socialism and capitalism.

 

Exactly Fishteacher; This thread is titled Communist-capitalist, but some have used their contempt for capitalism to compare it with socialism instead of communism. Not quite fair, in my opinion. I frankly would like to see our system in the USA tilt more toward a social democracy. I believe as time goes by this trend will manifest itself and we could expect more sound social programs to develope.

[tarak]

Some definitions

An economic system in which the means of production are controlled by the state

 

A social system which favors collective ownership of the means of economic production and distribution.

 

 

Socialism believes that the ratio of capital surplus to social surplus is very low, that most of the surplus involved in human production is predicated on the producer being a member of society, and therefore argues for social control of the means of production and an egalitarian distribution of wealth, in order to provide benefits to all members of a society.

 

In Marxist theory a stage of historical development transitional between capitalism and communism. Romania claimed to have attained socialism by 1965.

 

An "economic, social and political doctrine which expresses the struggle for the equal distribution of wealth by eliminating private property and the exploitative ruling class. In practice, such a distribution of wealth is achieved by social ownership of the means of production, exchange and diffusion." (7)

 

A theory or system of social organization that advocates the ownership and control of land, capital, industry, etc. by the community as a whole. In Marxist theory it represents the stage following capitalism in a state transforming to communism.

 

A political and economic theory of social organisation that advocates that the community as a whole should own and control the means of production.

[tarak]

Communism:

a political theory derived from Marxism, advocating a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person is paid and works according to his or her needs and abilities.

 

A totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production with the professed aim of establishing a stateless society

Capitalism

 

An economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and controlled and which is characterized by competition and the profit motive.

[C1ay]

Communism:

a political theory derived from Marxism, advocating a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person is paid and works according to his or her needs and abilities.

 

That sounds like quite an incentive breaker to me, is there something here I'm not seeing?

[Qfwfq]

One must be careful with real democray too.

I wasn't referring to direct democracy as opposed to representative. I am supposing that to be what you meant. Anyway, direct democracy is feasible only with only a small number of citizens. Even the Republic of San Marino is a representative democracy. Sure enough, it has been enduring quite a few centuries, apart from two brief occupations, a few months each, in1503 by Cesare Borgia, "il Valentino" and in 1739 by Cardinal Giulio Alberoni.

 

What's it got to do with Siberian banana crops, anyway?

 

As soon as the people learn that they can vote themselves gifts from the public fund it leads to anarchy. Past democracies have crumbled because of this.

In democracy, direct or representative, the people may choose to explode an atom bomb above each town. Much the same about voting to ruin the economy, if that's what you mean by leading to anarchy. Just as people may vote in favour of the death penalty, if they don't consider it evil in their opinion, why can't they vote in favour of Communism? Or even for anarchy?

 

That's why he U.S. was formed as a republic utilizing representatives. It has some drawbacks but so far it's the longest lasting democracy I know of/

Even more off topic, the intent of comparing US democracy with other democracies, instead of Capitalism with Communism and Socialism.

[Qfwfq]

Communism and Fascism are the evil twins of socialism and capitalism.

Fascism is an evil twin of Socialism. Fascismo is the Italian name, inspired by the Roman fascio, while Nazi is the German name, short for Nazional-Sozialismus. Socialism to gain public support, at least initially they both gained a lot of it, combined with Nationalism and used to create a military regime.

[Qfwfq]

That sounds like quite an incentive breaker to me, is there something here I'm not seeing?

Perhaps you hadn't seen that it was already said, Communism relies on sense of duty toward society rather than on the idea of profit as an incentive.

[Qfwfq]

Although I could say much, having both Canadian and Italian citizenship and people over there often beckoning me, I think US vs. EU discussion is also off-topic.

[Biochemist]

That sounds like quite an incentive breaker to me, is there something here I'm not seeing?

I think you are seeing it correctly.

[Fishteacher73]

That's why he U.S. was formed as a republic utilizing representatives. It has some drawbacks but so far it's the longest lasting democracy I know of/

 

I believe the longest extant gov't is actually Iceland's.