Buffy Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Just waiting. Government can not really help. Only thing it can do make it more severe. What is your theory for how government has evolved? Why does it exist at all if it never can help? If you're interested in discussing this topic (which is getting off the topic of the thread) please do open a new thread! The world is populated in the main by people who should not exist, :thumbs_upBuffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wufwugy Posted April 17, 2009 Report Share Posted April 17, 2009 Just waiting. Government can not really help. Only thing it can do make it more severe. So said Hoover as he and his followers turned a recession into a Great Depression Then FDR shows up and puts government to work and creates the strongest economy in all of history by far, strongest working class in all of history by far, and the longest period in US history without financial failures by far; and this period of absence of financial failures would be able to stretch on forever under FDR-based governmenting except the American people decided to allow the wealthy to fool them again and return us to the anti-middle class, boom/bust economy perpetuated since the rise of the nation until FDR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 The relationship is substantially more highly interdependent and nuanced than this suggests. And go against over a century of economic understanding? Destorying the fed is to economics what destroying the laboratory is to biology. Like usual, it's not THAT something is used, but HOW something is used I realize the intertwinedness of the Free Trade and what not... But basically the average American owes teh Chinese $6,000. Give or take a few Yuans. The Federal Reserve system has No More to do with the government than Federal Express. Its Banking Cartel that Woodrow Wilson himself regretted passing in 1913 under the cloak of Darkness.. What happened to our currency being backed by Gold and Silver?? Without correcting these mistakes, our economy is contolled by outside influences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted April 19, 2009 Report Share Posted April 19, 2009 What happened to our currency being backed by Gold and Silver??Blame *Populist* presidential candidate, William Jennings Bryan... If they dare to come out in the open field and defend the gold standard as a good thing, we shall fight them to the uttermost, having behind us the producing masses of the nation and the world. Having behind us the commercial interests and the laboring interests and all the toiling masses, we shall answer their demands for a gold standard by saying to them, you shall not press down upon the brow of labor this crown of thorns. You shall not crucify mankind upon a cross of gold. Destiny is no matter of chance. It is a matter of choice. It is not a thing to be waited for, it is a thing to be achieved, :QuestionMBuffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wufwugy Posted April 20, 2009 Report Share Posted April 20, 2009 I realize the intertwinedness of the Free Trade and what not... But basically the average American owes teh Chinese $6,000. Give or take a few Yuans.Not quite. This interdependency is to such a degree that it's not purely a creditor/debtor situation as the lay see it. We could default on China's credit and it would probably hurt them at least as much as us. The notion that it's cut and dry is misleading, and the notion that our being in debt to them is bad for us but not them is misleading. The Federal Reserve system has No More to do with the government than Federal Express.The Fed is an financial institution for economic purposes, and that has everything to do with government What happened to our currency being backed by Gold and Silver?? Economists developed more knowledge. There are a whole host of problems with backed currency instead of fiat currency. The lay tend to not like fiat currency since backed currency advocates can spin the 'inflation tax' well. One of the strongest examples in history of fiat currency trouncing backed currency: leaving the Gold Standard was paramount in the world climbing out of the Great Depression. Fiat currency can be misused tremendously, though, but that doesn't negate the fact that when used according to contemporary understanding it works better than backed currency. Without correcting these mistakes, our economy is contolled by outside influences. I can't seem to quite understand how so many Americans can live in the, far and away, strongest and most influential economy on the planet yet think it actually plays the submissive role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted April 21, 2009 Report Share Posted April 21, 2009 I can't seem to quite understand how so many Americans can live in the, far and away, strongest and most influential economy on the planet yet think it actually plays the submissive role. I agree completely. I think this negativism is due to the current slump itself. People hear so much bad news they cannot really relalize that it is almost over for a while and that we are already beginning to turn around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 The Fed is an financial institution for economic purposes, and that has everything to do with government . We can respectfully disagree wufwugy. The Federal Reserve System (also the Federal Reserve; informally The Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. Created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act (signed by Woodrow Wilson), it is a quasi-public (government entity with private components) banking system[1] that comprises (1) the presidentially appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3) twelve regional privately-owned Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury,each with its own nine-member board of directors; (4) numerous other private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and (5) various advisory councils. Since February 2006, Ben Bernanke serves as the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. Donald Kohn is the current Vice Chairman (Term: June 2006 - June 2010).Federal Reserve System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zythryn Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 We can respectfully disagree wufwugy. Racoon, I think the truth lies somewhere between your position and wufwugy's.For example, your same quote with bold inserted in different places supports wufwugy's position: The Federal Reserve System (also the Federal Reserve; informally The Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. Created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act (signed by Woodrow Wilson), it is a quasi-public (government entity with private components) banking system[1] that comprises (1) the presidentially appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3)twelve regional privately-owned Federal Reserve Bankslocated in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury,each with its own nine-member board of directors; (4) numerous other private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and (5) various advisory councils. Since February 2006, Ben Bernanke serves as the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System. Donald Kohn is the current Vice Chairman (Term: June 2006 - June 2010).Federal Reserve System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia The government created it, and I think that maintaining the economy is an aspect of the government. It is influenced by non-governmental forces, but is not completely unconnected (imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racoon Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 Of course there's a connection between $U.S. Dollar Currency and the Government. thats a No-Duh. Its just that the Federal Reserve is a Private Banking institution. Not a federal government run operation. It should also be noted much of our our currency is printed in South Korea. Hows about that??Apparently it costs only $0.03 to print a paper bill in S. Korea compared to $0.05 to print it here where its legal tender. If you think everything is hunky-dorey, then Great. Keep your head in the sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zythryn Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 ...Its just that the Federal Reserve is a Private Banking institution. Not a federal government run operation.The very article you listed to support your argument states that is is 'quasi public'. It has elements of both. Supporting the idea that the truth lies between your position and the other extreme. It should also be noted much of our our currency is printed in South Korea. Hows about that??I find that fascinating. Do you have a source for that? I would love to learn more about that decision.The information I could find does not mention that. As a matter of fact, it indicates the currency/notes are printed in Washington DC and Fort Worth, TX:During fiscal year 2007, the Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) produced approximately 38 million notes a day with a face value of approximately $750 million. Per: https://treas.gov/education/faq/currency/production.shtml#q1 If you think everything is hunky-dorey, then Great. Keep your head in the sand. Where did you get the idea that I thought everything was 'hunky-dorey'? You can attempt to belittle anyone that disagrees with you, but would be better served to back up your arguments with links that actually support your statements rather than contradict them.My disagreement with you is that there are wholes in your logic is not sound, not even close, and it normally is. I was hoping to get some clarification about any support you have for your position.Statements of yours such as:The Federal Reserve system has No More to do with the government than Federal Express. which by your own postings is not the case just do your position a disservice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wufwugy Posted April 22, 2009 Report Share Posted April 22, 2009 We can respectfully disagree wufwugy. That is an entirely different issue, and has nothing to do with whether or not the Fed is a financial institution with economic purposes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackson33 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 The very article you listed to support your argument states that is is 'quasi public'. It has elements of both. Supporting the idea that the truth lies between your position and the other extreme. I find that fascinating. Do you have a source for that? I would love to learn more about that decision.The information I could find does not mention that. As a matter of fact, it indicates the currency/notes are printed in Washington DC and Fort Worth, TX: Per: https://treas.gov/education/faq/currency/production.shtml#q1 And you would be correct, additional source;---------------------------------------------------------------------------------Since October 1, 1877, all U.S. currency has been printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing, which started out as a six person operation using steam powered presses in the basement of the Department of Treasury. Now, 2,300 Bureau employees occupy twenty-five acres of floor space in two Washington, D.C. buildings. The Treasury also operates a satellite printing plant in Ft. Worth, Texas. Currency and stamps are designed, engraved, and printed twenty-four hours a day on thirty high speed presses. In 1990, at a cost of 2.6 cents each, over seven billion notes worth about $82 billion were produced for circulation by the Federal Reserve System. Ninety-five percent will replace unfit notes and five percent will support economic growth. At any one time, $200 million in notes may be in production. Notes produced in 2002 were the $1 note, 41% of production time; the $5 note, 19%; $10 notes, 16%; $20 note, 15%; and $100 note, 9%. No $2 or $50 notes were printed in 2002. Fun Facts About Money from the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As I recall however the paper used, may not be produced in the US..... The Federal Reserve DOES operate under the Corporate Structure, said to be independent of Government, however the Chairman is appointed by the US Executive and confirmed by the Congress. I DON'T think Fred Smith, CEO/Founder of Fed Ex, need go through that process. Federal Reserve System, Chairman - Presidential Appointments: Top "Prune" Jobs - Excellence in Transition While I agree, the current economic health of the US, is a bit strained, I would suggest a great deal has to do with where the current and last (final 6 months) administration's has taken policy. There is nothing IMO conducive to 'Free Market Capitalism' which the US has practiced extensively for 140 years and in spirit since formation. The elections in 2010 and the actions of Congress until then, will determine the length of this recession, the direction of policy and the hoped for rebuilding of confidence of the US consumer/business communities, possibly the worlds.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lumber Joe Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 To me, bailing out automobile producers just because they are America's pride is simply nonsense. Fun Facts About Money and Offshore Banking from the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for sharing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lawcat Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 To me, bailing out automobile producers just because they are America's pride is simply nonsense. It's important. Automobile industry is a worldwide money collection. It is an important source of trade surplus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maikeru Posted July 18, 2009 Report Share Posted July 18, 2009 It's important. Automobile industry is a worldwide money collection. It is an important source of trade surplus. That was before we bailed them out and revved up the deficit. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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