Moontanman Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 If I could just get 100,000 people to send me $10 it would certainly ease my economic situation! I too worry that the 800,000,000,000 bail out will just disappear into the pockets of executives and off ashore accounts. The gov says they are going to keep that from happening but i doubt they will be able to. Greed, capitalism and stupidity got us into this mess why can't it get us out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moadib Posted February 11, 2009 Report Share Posted February 11, 2009 First of all trickle down isnt giving money to the rich, it takes less of their money. When is the last time you got a regular job from a poor person. What is the good in govt handing out cash if people lost their jobs and will need more money next month.No matter how hard you try, CORPORATIONS DONT PAY TAXES. Govt raises taxes corporation raise prices or layoff. What do you guys think of the FAIR TAX?or flat consumtion tax with govt rebate on the basics? Secondly capitolism was not what got us into this.What got us into this was govt forcing banks to make horrible loans to help low income people in houses.To be fair it was kinda time for a downturn anyway.These thing do seem to be cyclicle and we had been at 3 or 4% growth with 5% unemployment for a long time. The bad loans plus low as you can go interest rates and artificially inflated oil prices get together for a nice little storm PS So forced labor is gunna work just as hard when the boss isnt looking as someone seeking for a raise. I doubt it. Socialist citizen are not nearly as motived. Just look at the work ethic in America before welfare was trendy(oh yes some people brag about being on welfare) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffy Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 What got us into this was govt forcing banks to make horrible loans to help low income people in houses.Would you care to back up this claim? Can you point to a specific bill that was passed or Bush Administration policy directive that caused this to happen? Even if it were true, can you explain why Bush would have implemented such a policy? I do recognize that for about 48 hours that this was a conservative talking point repeated by Rush, Sean and Michelle, but there's a reason that it is no longer a talking point... Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes! :)Buffy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted February 12, 2009 Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Would you care to back up this claim? Can you point to a specific bill that was passed or Bush Administration policy directive that caused this to happen? Even if it were true, can you explain why Bush would have implemented such a policy? I do recognize that for about 48 hours that this was a conservative talking point repeated by Rush, Sean and Michelle, but there's a reason that it is no longer a talking point... Blinding ignorance does mislead us. O! Wretched mortals, open your eyes! :)BuffyABsolutely, a good point! Every cause of this credit collapse is due to lack of regulations, and gov. people being bribed by corporation lobbyists not to enforce what regulations there are. Strange how the so-called "Liberal" media avoids placing blame where it is due and the corporate Libertarian mind set still rules 95% of the Republicans. No wonder that the Stimulus bill just barely made it through Congress even after the 2nd economic crash in the same single damned Republican Administration! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted February 20, 2009 Report Share Posted February 20, 2009 wasn't it clinton that made loans easy to get?didn't he say that he wanted every american to own a home? things are gona have to git a whole lot worse before they'll ever get any better. fair tax is a great idea, i think. you buy something, you pay tax. the more expensive, the more tax.even the illegals would be paying taxes! it would work and that is why it didn't get pasted. WAKE-UP PEOPLE! the government doesn't want to fix anything, they want everyone dependent on them.how else could america be distroied? save us obama! save us!............ sickening!people wanted change, by george they gona git it. i specially liked how obama talked about the "same old government with the same old players" wouldn't change anything. now look at his advisers and cabinet members, bout everyone of them also worked for clinton, except for hillery ;) sorry didn't mean to rant, big can of worms there.love the thread, great topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi! We already do depend upon government. It is the only thing we have to defend us against big business. It wants to incorporate government away from us. Government provides a social safety net that keeps people from starving to death when infirm or aged. That is not cost effective to corporations shaped only for quarterly profits. They would have us believe their fantasy doctrine that business can replace the state! Its never happened in human history and they would tear down our Constituted government trying to achieve the impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaurieAG Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 Hi Goku, the government doesn't want to fix anything, they want everyone dependent on them.how else could america be distroied? If we look into the main changes over the past 20 years or so we can see what started the ball rolling with regards to the Global Financial/Economic Crisis, from the Australian perspective. (1) Robert Maxwell used 800 million of his employees superranuation/pension fund to prop up his empire. Now that is legal courtesy of the Ex Prime ministers brother and National textiles. (2) In 1991 Bank Fees and Charges were just starting to be introduced by our banks and only reaped millions. With no concern about double/trebble dipping etc (leveraged leasing and depreciation) from the government they now reap tens of billions per annum. (3) Our Hospitals/Schools/Universities had the fiscal leadership functions removed from the chief specialists and senior practical experts in the field (Deans, Surgeons, Headmasters etc). These functions were replaced with Administrations that had as their major priorities concentrating power and the empire building typical of rampant bureaucracy. So now, as the vehicles of our society race towards the chasm, the solution is to step down the accelerator even harder than before, in some fantasy solution straight out of hollywood. With happy bought out passengers their only idea is the counterintuitive gamble, keep on doing what caused the problem and escalate it, double or nothing. What lies on the other side of this chasm that our politicians? is it nirvana, utopia or economic hell? The only really responsible thing to do is to Audit the global financial system and put the stake through the heart of any financial instruments/ploys that only work when the market is going up. This is the big decision our politicians avoid like the plague because they are in denial that they caused the problem in the first place. In view of our global politicians collective myopia the only real solution available today is the other side of the chasm. As I said earlier, all of the funny money, once their mechanisms have been disabled and disallowed, when bought out by the global governments, should all be rolled into the Mars Colonisation and Mining Company as long term investments. At least in 20 to 30 years they should be worth something that can be used to pay back the public for our politicians incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 most people i know, family and friends, have been seeing this coming for many years. sub-divisions one after another, $400 to $600 thousand homes, land at $20 to $50 thousand per acer.there is not enough people, with the money and means, to buy these homes.now the homes are empty. the banks are left to fit the bill cus the contractors walked away. and high gas prices didn't help. i think we should drill our own oil, stop sending all our money to terrorists. they don't like us anyway. if gas was $.50 a gallon, people would have more money to pay bills. i know i would. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 most people i know, family and friends, have been seeing this coming for many years. sub-divisions one after another, $400 to $600 thousand homes, land at $20 to $50 thousand per acer.there is not enough people, with the money and means, to buy these homes.now the homes are empty. the banks are left to fit the bill cus the contractors walked away. and high gas prices didn't help. i think we should drill our own oil, stop sending all our money to terrorists. they don't like us anyway. if gas was $.50 a gallon, people would have more money to pay bills. i know i would. I can see this happening where I live as well, but in our area we see people coming from areas where real estate is much more excessive and with money they get by selling their property in high price areas. This drives up property values beyond which anyone local can afford, this also drives up property values as well and taxes. prices spiraling upward faster than and higher than the real value is a very bad thing. I would like to ask where you would like to drill to supply oil to the US, we have only a small fraction of the oil we need to supply us with gasoline. No amount of drilling will bring up oil that is not there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goku Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 the rockies, follow this USGS Release: 3 to 4.3 Billion Barrels of Technically Recoverable Oil Assessed in North Dakota and Montanas Bakken Formation—25 Times More Than 1995 Estimate— (4/10/2008 2:25:36 PM) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted February 22, 2009 Report Share Posted February 22, 2009 Ok goku, if you could get it all at once, unlikely, that would be about six months of oil for the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted February 23, 2009 Report Share Posted February 23, 2009 The only really responsible thing to do is to Audit the global financial system and put the stake through the heart of any financial instruments/ploys that only work when the market is going up. This is the big decision our politicians avoid like the plague because they are in denial that they caused the problem in the first place. Everyone blames the politicians but it is the fickle populace that elects them and the corrupt big business that pays them off. Actually, our government is our only protection from rapacious corporations bent not on serving anyone but their officers and stockholders. You you are right, the government has failed to do that and has taken to high living like the CEOs. That raises two issues: 1. why has everyone become so greedy? and 2. What if anything can be done about it? charlesthe Atheistic Science Institute - home page* * Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moadib Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 In 2001 HUD move passed proposals to have 50% of their loans going into low to moderate income and 1 point above what normal bank loans. i dont recall the exact act but ill look it up and put it up later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turtle Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 wasn't it clinton that made loans easy to get?didn't he say that he wanted every american to own a home? things are gona have to git a whole lot worse before they'll ever get any better. fair tax is a great idea, i think. you buy something, you pay tax. the more expensive, the more tax.even the illegals would be paying taxes! it would work and that is why it didn't get pasted. WAKE-UP PEOPLE! the government doesn't want to fix anything, they want everyone dependent on them.how else could america be distroied? save us obama! save us!............ sickening!people wanted change, by george they gona git it. i specially liked how obama talked about the "same old government with the same old players" wouldn't change anything. now look at his advisers and cabinet members, bout everyone of them also worked for clinton, except for hillery :lol: sorry didn't mean to rant, big can of worms there.love the thread, great topic So, the self-proclaimed "ignorant farmboy" wrote this? You don't know how many legs on an insect, but you know all about the economy & politics? Your words aren't worth the virtual ink it took to put them down. Moreover, even here in this thread you have twice now ignored the fact put forward that the US does not have enough oil to supply our use, a tactic you have employed so frequently in your theology posting. I'm all on about frugality in any economic climate; minimalist multifunctionism to borrow a phrase. Don't spend what you don't have and don't spend on what you don't need. Here's an economic crisis tactic: Get off your duff and start planting an old-fashioned Victory Garden tomorrow on Sun Day. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charles brough Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 wasn't it clinton that made loans easy to get?didn't he say that he wanted every american to own a home? things are gona have to git a whole lot worse before they'll ever get any better. fair tax is a great idea, i think. you buy something, you pay tax. the more expensive, the more tax.even the illegals would be paying taxes! it would work and that is why it didn't get pasted. WAKE-UP PEOPLE! the government doesn't want to fix anything, they want everyone dependent on them.how else could america be distroied? save us obama! save us!............ sickening!people wanted change, by george they gona git it. i specially liked how obama talked about the "same old government with the same old players" wouldn't change anything. now look at his advisers and cabinet members, bout everyone of them also worked for clinton, except for hillery :lol: sorry didn't mean to rant, big can of worms there.love the thread, great topic wow! It would seem that a statement by Clinton that everyone should have a home is going to destroy the country!! It would seem that you would be better of not putting posts in when you are upset!:) Personally, I am glad he didn't get Bush hold-overs in his cabinet! I like that he got experienced people but rather young people instead of reaching back into Nixon or Reagen! Considering that the crash comes after some eight years under the Bush years, it seems to be rather a stretch to blame it all on Clinton! What has the Bush people been doing all that time (other than deregulating everything they could and laying the foundation for this economic mess). charlesthe Atheistic Science Institute - home page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wadeg Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 How about we start looking at the fundamentals. Do we still need money at all? Is there an alternative..? I say.. yes there is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zythryn Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 Wadeg, feel free to flesh out your idea. Mentioning an idea without giving any information about it is not very helpful.Before you do though, you might be interested in other threads about the idea of a moneyless society. One such thread can be found at moneyless society And welcome to the board:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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