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I would seldom if ever consider killing a stray dog , but cats should be kept indoors. I’m sorry but when I see a cat with a rare song bird in its mouth.. :evil:. That SOB is on my hit list!! :hihi:

 

I have to agree T-Bird, killing a dog because it's simply stray is not justifiable. If the dog is threating me and I have no choice I wouldn't hesitate to kill it but for the most part I call animal control to come and get the dog. If the dog responds to commands and will let me approach it i always check for tags. many times I've been able to return dogs to their owners in this manner, I did so a couple months ago as a matter of fact. The owner didn't even know her dog was lost. The dog actually scratched at my door and came in on it's own when i opened the door it promptly jumped up into my arms and stuck with me like glue until the owner came for it. It obviously wasn't a feral dog.

 

Stray cats I trap and give to animal control. To me feral and stray are different, feral suggests the animal is totally outside human control and has become part of the wild community, stray just means lost or abandoned. many stray animals have been intentionally abandoned by their owners and are simply looking for a home. I've taken in many stray dogs in my life and they are just as loyal as any other dog, I've even taken in my share of stray cats.

 

I feel like dogs are a special case, we are basically God to dogs, we created them, we breed them for traits the please us. Bad dogs are a product of bad owners, humans are responsible for the behavior of dogs. I feel sorry for them in many ways, seeing a dog searching for it's owner or a home is a very sad sight. although I would kill a dog if i had to I lay the real blame on aggressive dangerous dogs at the feet of their owners. far too many people think it's good to have a mean dog to protect them or their property.

 

My dogs bark to warn me of strangers, nothing more, if i thought one of them was dangerous i would have him put down with out hesitation, a dangerous aggressive dog is a terror to many people who do not know how to handle them. Being afraid in your own yard or even while out and about due to a badly trained dog is inexcusable! In my area such dogs and their owners are taken quite seriously and taken care of swiftly by animal control.

 

Another "passion" of mine is that all pets should be neutered, in males this cuts down on aggression and keeps pets from establishing feral populations if they run away, cat of course are very bad about this, much more so than dogs under most conditions.

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Did anyone see a program few years back about a man in England that had the people in a village keep and freeze all the animals and birds their cats killed and brought home. He kept a record over a year and when he added it all up it became apparent that the cats were killing a huge amount of wildlife. These were just the domesticated cats.

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Though I was too young to understand what they were doing, my parents later told me of their experiences with stray cats 1963 to 1966.

 

At the time, we lived near the end of a dead-end street near the edge of the town of Bluefield, WV, where its paved streets gave way to dirt roads and woods. This dead-end was, we learned, a traditional abandoning ground for unwanted pet cats. Presumably the abandoners believed the cats would make off into the woods for a happy feral life reminiscent of Elsa the lion in “Born Free”, but, of course, these former housepets made strait for the nearest house they could find, ours and our nextdoor neighbors. The volume was appalling – somewhere around 1 or 2 adult cats a week, sometimes including large litters of kittens.

 

After some bad experience with inept animal control workers, my parents, an MD and an RN, decided they euthanize them themselves. After learning from experience, they established a reliable procedure consisting of feeding the cats until they became handleable, chloroforming them into a stupor in a box built for that purpose, stopping their hearts with big pericardial injections of potassium chloride, and disposing of the bodies in the town picked up trash.

 

I’ve long believed that, if there were a hell, it would have a special place for people who abandon pet animals.

 

In my experience, cats can transition fairly smoothly from completely feral to never-allowed-outside housepet. For 17 years, my mom had a cat born of a feral mom cat who kept her kittens at the edge of a back deck. 6 months later, one of the former kittens returned with her own pair of kitten, all of whom my mom took in, neutered them, and kept. Both kittens were killed by cars.

 

Feral cats have, of course, much shorter life expectancies than housepets – I’ve read no scientific study, but my anecdotal experience is that, excluding ones that die as kittens, 6 to 18 months is typical for females, males somewhat longer, perhaps 5 years if they survive to 15 months. Their major “predator” in the fringe habitats to which they seem best suited is almost certainly the car. For females under 6 months and males under 15, adult male cats are a major predator, and for cats of any age, dogs. In more remote areas, I’ve seen or heard reliable reports of bobcats, cougars, and bears eating both feral and strayed-to-far-from-the-house housecats.

 

My mom’s also a bird lover, keeping a row of feeders. Though her cats occasionally take a bird (as I’ve pointed out, her “bird feeders” are also effectively “cat feeders” for any outdoor cats so inclined), she believes that, if well fed, even adopted ferals prefer food that doesn’t try to escape to food that does, and hunt so casually they rarely catch healthy birds. From checking I’ve done (I’ve fair skill at locating the “abattoirs” where housecats seem to instinctively stash their kills, returning to feed as they decompose – as best I can tell, cats almost never eat the skulls of long bones of even small birds), I suspect she’s right.

 

So what’s the major human contribution to increasing the Felis catus population? I suspect that, more than allowing pets to breed, it’s similar to our contribution to increasing the numbers other fringe-dwellers, such as rats, mice, and deer: building cities, towns, villages, and their attendant warehouse/industrial zones and dumps, which create fringe habitats, and killing off the large predators that would usually prey on them. Unlike deer, cats are comfortable living in the hearts of cities. Unlike rats, they can roam freely and in plain sight without provoking a deadly reaction from most humans, some of whom actually find them pleasant and beautiful, and will, as previous posters have noted, feed and otherwise care for them. Perhaps the most famous and well-documented city-dwelling feral cats (though some claim this classification is inaccurate for this and similar populations) are found in Rome (see Rome Cats - Information on the Cats who prowl Rome's Ancient Monuments or many other websites and books on the subject), estimated to number about 300,000 in 2,000 colonies, about 1/5th its present human population. Rather than being treated as pests, in 2001, the cats of the central tourist district of Rome were given legal protection as objects of “bio-heritage”. Other Italian towns and cities appear to have similar traditions, if not laws.

 

Some historians and zoologists maintain, as do I, that housecats should be considered more of a human-compatible wild animal than a domestic one, though I think this applies only to “garden variety” mongrels and “hearty” breeds (eg: Maine Coons), not some of the less practical breeds, which, like dog breeds, have been changed significantly by scores to hundreds of generations of human-controlled breeding.

 

In summary, I think that before one concludes that cats are a human-introduced ecological hazard, like smog, mine tailings, or DDT, one should carefully consider the idea that they are a predominantly wild species that has, though a marvel of evolutionary selection, become adept at living with and at the fringes of human colonies. There is, I think, no question that cats can do great damage to biodiversity in isolated ecosystems, such the Hawaiian islands, where, introduced in the 1700s, cats are believed to present a threat to endangered bird species second only to the Indian mongoose, another invader species. (see NATURALLY SPEAKING: Hawaii: The Cat Conundrum). On the other hand, they certainly are native to the Middle East, northern Africa, and southern Europe, and have been in North America for at least 400 years. Though I never allow my neutered pet cats outdoors, science tells me that hundreds of their close relatives lead brief, brutal, voracious, reproductively prolific lives within easy walking distance of my house.

 

I’d also like to address the claim that

Few cats will tackle a Rat but they will kill most other small animals. In my back Yard there are lots of lizards, small snakes, ground moles and squirrels and other small animals.
Although I’d not be surprised if this were the case for many inexperienced pet cats allowed outdoors, it’s certainly not a physical or psychological limitation of the species. I had a cat that regularly brought home and presented to me killed rats (the largest massing about 1.7 kg, vs. the cat’s 4), and that I saw a couple of times down and kill adult wild rabbits massing, I estimate, 5+ kg. I’ve seen cats eat, with no ill after effect, wood beetles and earthworms, and assume they eat many things I’ve not seen. A cat accustom to hunting will prey on nearly anything it can, though I suspect they tend to prey on the animals their mother did when they were young, as much of their hunting skill seems to me learned, rather than instinctive.

 

I’ve never seen a cat take a healthy adult squirrel, which can be surprisingly formidable when defending itself, though I have seen a cat successfully face down a mother squirrel to raid her nest of its helpless pups.

 

Cats climb well, and in my experience often raid bird and squirrel nests.

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I guess we have had different experiences here, i see cats kill squirrels quite often but they seem to seldom kill rats.This could be factor of where we live, in the south rats can be huge, especially where I live near the state ports. My dogs kill rats often but not the cats. Cats around here kill squirrels quite often, I'm honestly not sure why squirrels and not rats. BTW, I've been to Bluefield many times, nice place, i grew up near Charleston.

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I don't know who makes their commercials but they're very effective at their jobs.:lol:

 

Me and Wifey been sending money for a couple years now.

 

Buuuuuut.....it doesn't prove your point in prepetuum that the majority of pet keepers are neglectful, abusive etc. More accurately it proves that a large enough number of persons to require decent persons to take action are .:lol:

 

Tis a broad generalization not accurate fact:naughty:

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I don't know who makes their commercials but they're very effective at their jobs.:D

 

Me and Wifey been sending money for a couple years now.

 

Buuuuuut.....it doesn't prove your point in prepetuum that the majority of pet keepers are neglectful, abusive etc. More accurately it proves that a large enough number of persons to require decent persons to take action are .:lol:

 

Tis a broad generalization not accurate fact:naughty:

 

Well, I didn't say it was proof, only support, and it's only one such supporting schema that I have proffered. :lol: :D

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:shrug:

 

:confused:

 

:shrug: Doh!

 

:confused: The devil's in the details, ain't it. :D To whit, if you could or care to, and other readers as well, please try and find out for your local area what percentage of pets requiring a license actually have it. As I earlier said anecdotally (wasn't able to find the story online) one of my local news stations reported that in Portland Oregon only 10% of dogs and 3% of cats are licensed contrary to the laws. Of course I presume that licensing your pet is part & parcel of "good" pet ownership (it certainly is indicative of bad citizenship to disobey the laws) so on this little schema then the vast majority of dog & cat owners in Portland are "bad" pet owners.

 

So it goes. :confused:

 

addendum: What's good for the goose is good for the gander they say, so I flew off & had a look in my area. I did not find anything yet for my specific county, but I did for other areas in the State: :shrug:

 

Untitled

 

Based on a formula used to estimate total pet population, Table 3 shows that 13% of the cats and dogs in Pierce County are licensed. The percentage is much lower than in Tacoma and King County (which, as mentioned earlier, serves 20 cities), but it is a little higher than in Snohomish and Kitsap counties. Thus, it could be argued that Pierce County’s estimated number of licensed pets is in line with the experience of comparable jurisdictions.Best PracticesPierce County and other jurisdictions have used a number of approaches to increase the number of pet licenses. These include employing people to canvass areas, increasing the number of locales where licenses can be purchased, and marketing through inserts, 1The AVMA pet calculator is at http://www.avma.org/reference/marketstats/ownership_calculator.aspThe [note: link is dead :confused: ]Pierce County Auditors Office uses the AVMA formula to aid in its work. ...
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Still looking....

But I do agree that failing to license an animal is being a "bad" pet owner....here it's like $8 for a regular license and $65 for a lifetime chip license....on the downside you do have to have a minimum of a valid rabies tag (meaning your animal has been vaccinated) to get your license meaning there are very likely a LOT of people that don't get their licenses because they can't afford the vet bill for the shot....even though the our local Petsmart provides these shots for less than $10 once a month so that ain't even a legitimate excuse:naughty:

 

Our pup has the lifetime RFID chip license....made good financial sense to us ($8 a year X an average of 17 years vs. $65 once:shrug:) plus it's registered with out vet, the licensing agency and the AKC so our pup if she were pupnaped or decide to go walkabout is more likely to be recovered and returned.(in theory anyway:shrug:)

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Please forgive me if this has already been discussed in this thread. I've read a lot of it but not all 29 pages.

 

May I ask if anyone thinks this "study" is as flawed as my gut tells me it is?

 

Sign in to read: How green is your pet? - environment - 23 October 2009 - New Scientist

 

SHOULD owning a great dane make you as much of an eco-outcast as an SUV driver? Yes it should, say Robert and Brenda Vale, two architects who specialise in sustainable living at Victoria University of Wellington in New Zealand. In their new book, Time to Eat the Dog: The real guide to sustainable living, they compare the ecological footprints of a menagerie of popular pets with those of various other lifestyle choices - and the critters do not fare well.

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ALL studies are flawed...those that say otherwise are fools who believe that a scientist's personal beliefs (or the beliefs of those funding them)never skew the results of their work

 

And having a pet is just slightly greener than breeding (producing more humans)...which I can easily prove with my usual flawless logic;)

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I guess it's the claim that owning a dog is worse than owning a SUV that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

 

I have a medium sized dog. He doesn't really eat that much dog food. And isn't dog food made from a lot of stuff that people wouldn't eat anyway? He eats scraps and stuff that would otherwise be composted. His crap is returned to the earth from whence it came. I've never seen him leave a light switch on when he leaves the room or leave the refrigerator door open.

How big a paw print could he really have?

 

It just seems to me that this is a case where the raw numbers can be pretty misleading.

 

In "Time to Eat the Dog, the Real Guide to Sustainable Living," Robert and Brenda Vale charge that a medium-size dog has a footprint of 2.1 acres compared with slightly more than one acre for a standard sport utility vehicle.

 

Pet Dogs More Damaging to the Environment Than SUVs - ABC News

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Is feeding strays reprehensible?

 

yes. this piece pertains to cats, but the principles apply to all stray domestic animals. call animal control. :cat: :dog:

 

...Q. What should I do about the stray cats who show up on my doorstep?

 

A. Do not feed stray cats without an intent to adopt and keep them inside. Feeding stray cats without making a commitment to giving or finding a permanent home is not fair to the cats, local wildlife, or your neighbors. Feeding cats allows them to breed and their populations can quickly get out of control. These cats suffer short, miserable lives, and can cause flea infestations and transmit serious diseases to humans. They can also impact populations of native wildlife. If you can't adopt the cats or find them homes, call your animal control officer or humane society who can safely and humanely remove them.

 

Q. By having the cats trapped and taken to a shelter, aren't you just killing them? Isn't this inhumane?

 

A. It is inhumane to leave the cats to overpopulate and to suffer and die a slow, painful death from injury, disease, getting hit by cars, starvation, attacks from other animals, poisoning, and severe weather.

 

Q. Is it safe to approach stray animals?

 

A. No! Stray animals can be aggressive and can transmit serious diseases to humans, such as cat-scratch disease, plague, or rabies. Avoid contact with stray animals and call your local animal control officer who can safely and humanely remove the animal

 

New Jersey Audubon

 

now stop jerkin' my chain. :naughty: :dogwalk:

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It seems to me that Turtle is confusing the pet industry for the animals. My cats didn't build any factories. They sure as hell aren't chemists. And I'm pretty certain their poop is biodegradable. So explain to me how the blame falls on my cats instead of me and you?

 

Pets are a part of human history and evolution.

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