Instigating a Bosenova

[KALSTER]

Yes, thanks modest for the info and interest. I'll have lots of interesting stuff to rumage through now!

[Buffy]

I think it's agreat thread too, too bad Buffy thought it was about a dance:alien_dance:;) :evil: :hihi:

Well, it should have been! :cheer:

 

But seriously, I reserve my impertinent hit and run posts *only* for those topics that are really interesting (the ones that are silly ravings of madmen do not deserve the attention :) )...

 

So anyway, back on topic, it would seem to me that BEC's actually have "normal" (i.e. easily obtainable) densities: in fact my understanding of the process of forming BEC's is to reduce the pressure on the system in order to obtain lower temperatures. What I'm confused about is that it would seem that attaining "nova-like" properties would require very high density, and the given ambient pressure along with the miniscule gravitational force provided by a handful of atoms could not possibly produce any outward rebounding force.

 

The near absolute-zero temperatures might allow some weakening of the electromagnetic repellent force allowing the nuclei to come into closer proximity than would be seen at normal temperatures as the system "collapsed" but in theory this should not be "over-balanced" by a stronger outward push once some minimum radius was attained.

 

Thus, my question really surrounds Modest's last post:

The missing condensate probably escaped the magnetic trap - which I gather is odd considering the energy needed to accomplish that

Where indeed is this force coming from? Is it really a case of some minimum radius causing some geometrical increase in electromagnetic repulsion, or is there possibly some evidence of "string-like" behavior that is being exposed in this experiment?

 

Not as vacuous as she looks, :cheer:

Buffy

[Moontanman]

Good save Buffy:doh:

[Jay-qu]

Well I think it must be stressed that the name 'bosenova' was just a convenient name and has absolutely nothing to do with a normal nova in so far as the physical processes are concerned (although we dont know exactly what they are yet!).

 

So perhaps as the BEC shinks in on itself it approaches the quantum mechanical uncertainty limit and in a last ditch effort to protect us from the truth the universe conspires to blow the BEC to pieces. my guess is as good as yours

 

As for the disappearing of some atoms .. well perhaps some rebound out so fast the escape the trap and avoid detection, we are talking about only a few hundred thousand atoms here, so I think they may be found on closer inspection. But only time and further experimenting will tell

[coldcreation]

... I thought the BEC Nova was one of the most interesting things I've heard of in long while but I really don't know exactly what to make of it. It really looks like one of those things that will yield far more than it would seem at first blush. Just an oddity now but who knows type of thing. Look at the first laser, who would have predicted when we have now from that humble beginning. What is your take on the BEC Nova?

 

Hey fellows and felines,

 

Moontanman, you asked above about Helium BEC. Check this out. This is even more spectacular:

 

Bose-Einstein Condensate in Hydrogen

 

(Original work: Bose-Einstein Condensation of Atomic Hydrogen, Phys. Rev. Lett. 81, 3811 (issue of 2 November 1998) Authors: Dale G. Fried, Thomas C. Killian, Lorenz Willmann, David Landhuis, Stephen C. Moss, Daniel Kleppner, and Thomas J. Greytak.

 

Concluding a quest that lasted 20 years' date=' a team of researchers has teased a sample of hydrogen gas into forming a Bose-Einstein condensate (BEC), a form of matter in which all of the atoms occupy the same quantum state... Since 1995, many groups have achieved BECs in dilute gases of alkali metal atoms, such as rubidium, but the hydrogen BEC contained more atoms than any other and should also allow for more precise comparisons with theory.

 

...From the peak shift, the team calculated that the condensate contained about one billion atoms, at least ten times what previous groups had achieved with alkali metals.

 

In addition to the fundamental physics of this rare state of matter, physicists are pondering ways to apply BECs to practical ends. Last year a different group at MIT constructed a rudimentary "atom laser" from a sodium BEC. "It is always interesting to have a new BEC system since there have been differences between almost all that we have yet seen," says Carl Wieman of the University of Colorado in Boulder. "Our hope is that looking at a new system in a new way will lead to new physics," adds Kleppner.[/quote']

 

 

Being uneducated I naturally do have my own little hypothesis that might (in my mind) explain a lot of things. I have an idea that forces might be distinct fractal disturbances of an Einsteinian aether, the magnetic field (consisting of its own brand of fractals) being tuned to destructively interfere with the intermolecular forces of the BEC, but as I said, it is not based on current theory or understanding, which I am after on this thread.

 

Good choice of topics Kalster.

 

Question:

What do you mean by

"fractal disturbances of an Einsteinian aether"?

 

 

 

 

 

:cup:

 

 

 

CC

[KALSTER]

Question:

What do you mean by

"fractal disturbances of an Einsteinian aether"?

Well, as I said, being a layman I naturally have my own little hypothesis I am investigating. I am however NOT advocating it as the truth, only as a setup that might yield the missing connections between QM and relativity, while also providing a setup that can be understood intuitively. I realize and acknowledge the absence of knowledge on my part and have been putting it forward for consideration on various forums, with mixed reviews. It is far from complete as I am trying to logically find ways that experimental results and verified predictions of QM and relativity could be explained by this hypothesis (or mind experiment rather). If you want to take a look, please do so.

 

THIS links to another forum where the fractal part have been discussed. It also contains links to the ORIGINAL PREMISE, which have developed some through the thread and into the others. I would love some feedback, questions or ridicule, but it is quite a long read though. I hope to hear from you (or anyone else):tongue:

[modest]

Create a thread in alternative theories and copy over your proposition. I personally would love to read it and you might get some fresh feedback.

 

~modest

[Pyrotex]

This is all very fascinating and interesting.

Big things are gonna come from this BEC research, mark my words.

[coldcreation]

This is all very fascinating and interesting.

Big things are gonna come from this BEC research, mark my words.

 

 

 

 

Big things have already come from BEC research.

 

 

 

:weather_snowing:

 

 

 

CC

[KALSTER]

Create a thread in alternative theories and copy over your proposition. I personally would love to read it and you might get some fresh feedback.

 

~modest

Thanks for the interest! Unfortunately the whole thing is spread out quite a bit over a few threads on different forums. You can get most of it with the links I provided, but I will follow your suggestion sometime in the near future and open a thread in the Alternate Theories section. It will take some time though. Hope to be back soon!

[JTankers]

this procedure caused the BEC to implode and shrink beyond detection??

 

I recommend the article "Collider Incidents"[1] at LHCFacts.org. Comments include input from Dr. Wieman.

 

(My conclution, possble indication of stable micro black hole creation is one possibility).

 

[1] lhcfacts.org/?cat=19

[modest]

Interesting, Your link says

 

However physicists at MIT published papers that appear to suggest (paraphrase) “probably a black hole“.

 

A difference of opinion appears to exist between the University of Colorado team and physics researcher’s at MIT including Masahito Ueda and Kerson Huang who conduct similar research, based on my understanding of related published material on the subject and communications with some of the physicists involved.

 

which I think refers to

 

http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/cond-mat/pdf/9807/9807359v1.pdf

 

and is way over my head. I wonder if anyone besides Ueda and Huang are making this claim.

 

~modest

[freeztar]

Read the comments. :evil:

[Erasmus00]

I recommend the article "Collider Incidents"[1] at LHCFacts.org. Comments include input from Dr. Wieman.

 

(My conclution, possble indication of stable micro black hole creation is one possibility).

 

Not one scientist involved believes that a literal, honest to goodness black hole can possibly be created in these BEC experiments, as the comments on your own article indicate! I have no idea how you've drawn your conclusion.

-Will