Faith over medicine?

[Thunderbird]

Those tools are 'hands' that are not designed to kill and eat meat.

These tools are designed to eat fruit and vegetation.

Mike C

We are a predatory ape this is why and how we evolved big brains. We just do not have to run down and kill our hambergers so we no longer need to eat meat.

[Mike C]

Do yourself, and all of us, a favor and look up neuropathy.

 

I am aware of this problem and it is only part of the problem.

 

One of these friends had this problem.

She had lost her feelings in her legs that was a problem for her balance.

So she had this feeling long before she started to have sores on her feet.

 

The other friend never mentioned this problem with 'feeling', but had problems with sores.

So this is kind of conflicting as to the cause of these sores. My opinion is that the reduced circulation is the primary cause of these foot sores and neuropathy as a secondary result .

 

Diet could be a factor here.

 

Mike C

[InfiniteNow]

I am aware of this problem and it is only part of the problem.

 

One of these friends had this problem.

She had lost her feelings in her legs that was a problem for her balance.

So she had this feeling long before she started to have sores on her feet.

 

The other friend never mentioned this problem with 'feeling', but had problems with sores.

So this is kind of conflicting as to the cause of these sores. My opinion is that the reduced circulation is the primary cause of these foot sores and neuropathy as a secondary result .

The plural of "anecdote" is "anecdotes," not "evidence." ~swansont

 

 

Also, your opinion means literally nothing when it's not supported, and is, in fact, challenged by the evidence we actually do have.

[Mike C]

To All

 

Did anyone see 60 Minutes last night on CBS TV.

 

There was a segment on obesity and its relation to disbetes.

 

It was about one of those 'bypass' operations of the stomach to reduce food intake and promote weight loss.

 

There were 8 people involved in this interview and all 8 loss a lot of weight.

 

And a remarkable sde effect of this weight loss was that they all had diabetes also and their diabetes was eliminated along with the weight loss.

 

So this establishes that obesity and diabetes are commonly associated.

 

So weight loss is the best way to rid oneself of this disease.

BTW, that was with diabetes 2.

 

Mike C

[InfiniteNow]

Did anyone see 60 Minutes last night on CBS TV.

I did. It was good, and others can see it here:

 

CBS News Video - Top Stories and Video News Clips at CBSNews.com

 

CBS News Video - Top Stories and Video News Clips at CBSNews.com

 

 

 

And a remarkable sde effect of this weight loss was that they all had diabetes also and their diabetes was eliminated along with the weight loss.

 

So this establishes that obesity and diabetes are commonly associated.

 

So weight loss is the best way to rid oneself of this disease.

The story was not specific to the weight loss itself, but the removal of the duodenum. The results regarding Type 2 diabetes were replicated even among those who were not overweight. Not that obesity and diabetes are not intricately entwined, just that I took the entire story in a different context than you.

 

Folks should check it out for themselves at the links above if they not already seen it. :)

 

 

 

BTW, that was with diabetes 2.

Thank you for taking the effort to clarify which type it was. This is very important. :)

[Zythryn]

Mike, I saw it too. It was fascinating. At first I was thinking 'old news with a twist' as it has long been understood that reducing weight would help control or even eliminate type 2 diabetes.

As I recall, they actually were very specific that the type 2 diabetes disappearing was NOT a result of the weight loss, but the fact the food was not traveling through the duodenum (as Infi noted above).

This was very surprising and I look forward to hearing about the research this is sure to generate.

Lots of other positive side affects as well as a result of the weight loss and who knows what else.

[Pyrotex]

These 'double blind placebo' tests require hundreds of thousands of dollars to do. Only the drug companies can afford to do them.

The ND's rely on 'clinical' results that are proven by the patients testimonials themselves. I cannot think of a better way to prove a treatment.

...

The companies that produce homeopathic 'remedies' are just as rich as the drug companies. They have more than enough money to do the double blind tests. They REFUSE to do the tests because they know they will fail them.

 

Anecdotal evidence is the WORST way to prove a treatment. For many illnesses (like cancer, for example) some small percentage of patients have spontaneous remissions. (For cancer, it's almost 2%). If a sick person has a spontaneous remission, they (and their 'physician') will be tempted to use the case as "proof" that whatever they were taking at the time "cured" the illness.

 

Of course, the patients who die make for negative public relations, so their "anecdotes" are never told.

 

For most COMMON illnesses, even severe ones, patients OFTEN get better eventually (the cold, flu, infections, etc) or have periods where they are temporarily better for extended periods (gout, etc). These folks supply most of the "anecdotal proof" for homeopathic and herbal medicines.

 

My father used to joke that if he didn't take any treatment for his colds, he was sick for fourteen days. But if he chewed bubblegum at the first sign of a cold, he was cured in two weeks! "Proof" that bubblegum cured colds.

[Mike C]

Infinite and Zythryn

 

Thanks for your reports.

 

The websites given can be of interest to those that have a problem with obesity.

 

However, my own solution to this problem would be a complete dietary change to a Vegan diet.

My reason for this is that ones body makes its own cholesterol and rejects the foreign kind from the animal products.

So the body carries that as excess baggage.

 

Mike C

[Mike C]

The companies that produce homeopathic 'remedies' are just as rich as the drug companies. They have more than enough money to do the double blind tests. They REFUSE to do the tests because they know they will fail them.

 

Anecdotal evidence is the WORST way to prove a treatment. For many illnesses (like cancer, for example) some small percentage of patients have spontaneous remissions. (For cancer, it's almost 2%). If a sick person has a spontaneous remission, they (and their 'physician') will be tempted to use the case as "proof" that whatever they were taking at the time "cured" the illness.

 

Of course, the patients who die make for negative public relations, so their "anecdotes" are never told.

 

For most COMMON illnesses, even severe ones, patients OFTEN get better eventually (the cold, flu, infections, etc) or have periods where they are temporarily better for extended periods (gout, etc). These folks supply most of the "anecdotal proof" for homeopathic and herbal medicines.

 

My father used to joke that if he didn't take any treatment for his colds, he was sick for fourteen days. But if he chewed bubblegum at the first sign of a cold, he was cured in two weeks! "Proof" that bubblegum cured colds.

 

The current USA healthcare system is a monopoly granted to the drug companies as patented creations(?)

So there is big money to be earned because of this.

 

On the other hand, Natural trearments and methods are superior to these drugs because past researches in causes of disease were shown that deficiencies of vitamins and minerals are the causes.

 

As I have said before, 100,000 people die from drug treatments and another one and a half million are hospitalized from the side effects. That is why they are dispensed by a doctor. These stats are from the JAMA journal.

 

Many Naturopathic doctors were former drug doctors that abandoned this type of treatments for the natural way because of the improved results they got with the Natural substances.

 

I consider these Natural medicines as GOD'S medicines.

 

There are/were two books written by a JD Rinse and Nathan Pritikin that

were diagnosed as 'terminal' cases by the drug system because of their occluded arteries. They were given 6 months to live.

They took their own lives into their hands and drastically changed their diets to Vegan or close to it and eliminated their health problem. They lived to

a good age. I did not read the books but did read a breif statement of same.

These books date basck several decades so one would have to go to the archives to see a copy.

 

Mike C

 

.

[Pyrotex]

More anecdotes.

 

What about the people with terminal illnesses who "took their lives in their own hands" and did the herbals, and the vitamins and the vegan diets -- and DIED! Do you have information on those numbers?

 

I didn't think so.

 

Your statement about AMA=monopoly is not quite correct. In the early years of the Twentieth Century, a US Congressman passed a bill specifically excluding homeopathic, "natural", and "food supplement" medicines from scrutiny by the newly founded Food and Drug Administration (FDA). I'll see if I can find his name.

 

So, in a sense, it is the "homeonat" medicines that have a "monopoly". They can sell whatever they want, and say anything they want, and the AMA cannot (BY LAW) stop them.

 

I'm not going to be swayed by anecdotes. There is no way to even vouchsafe that those stories have not been imbellished to some extent, since they were not observed and monitored under controlled conditions.

[Pyrotex]

Here is what I found in 20 minutes (the underlines are mine):

 

Originally founded by German physician Samuel Hahnemann (1755-1843), homeopathy as a system of therapeutics was brought to the United States in the early nineteenth century by German immigrants [4]. Although homeopathy originated in Germany, there never were any homeopathic hospitals and medical schools there [5]. Rather, homeopathy flourished in the United States in the eclectic medical environment of the nineteenth century. ... By the early twentieth century, as clinical medicine began to develop and expand into a science-based profession in the United States, homeopathic reformers began to redefine their field as a "complementary" form of treatment-based therapy. ...

 

Senator Royal Copeland (D-NY), sponsor of the FDCA, was a homeopathic physician who undoubtedly supported inclusion of the HPUS (Homeopathic Pharmacopeia of the United States) in the Act. Little is known about how the provision made it into the FDCA, however. The legislative record is silent, and an examination of Copeland's papers demonstrate that, although he was a dedicated homeopathic reformer early in his career, he had become less involved in homeopathy as his career moved him into the field of public health. Homeopathy does not appear to have been one of his chief concerns in drafting the FDCA. On reflection, this absence of discussion seems to support a more skeptical (or at least more intricate) view of this provision as a mere concession to Copeland.

[Pyrotex]

...100,000 people die from drug treatments and another one and a half million are hospitalized from the side effects. That is why they are dispensed by a doctor. These stats are from the JAMA journal. ....

I sure would like to know which issue of JAMA.

 

So, this 100,000 people who die from [AMA] drugs -- was it the drug that killed them outright? Or did they die while under that drug therapy? Big difference. If someone dies of cancer while under Tylenol therapy, it is probably unfair to say that the Tylenol killed them.

[Zythryn]

I read the statistics. The statistic, as I recall is for those that died as a result of errors/complications. This included incorrect doses, wrong type of drug, allergies to drugs, etc.

I forget the 'rates' of deaths, Mike perhaps you have that information as well? How many people are saved each year due to the same medications and hospital treatments?

[Pyrotex]

I read the statistics. The statistic, as I recall is for those that died as a result of errors/complications....

Okay. Thanks for clearing that up. I just wanted to make sure.

 

[EDIT] The story of how the early FDA wound up providing "protection" for homeopathic and herbal treatments is a LOT more complicated than I ever knew. The roll of Senator (D-NY) & Homeopathic physician, Royal Copeland, is also steeped in complications and uncertainty. Here is the whole story.

 

Good luck.

[Mike C]

More anecdotes.

 

What about the people with terminal illnesses who "took their lives in their own hands" and did the herbals, and the vitamins and the vegan diets -- and DIED! Do you have information on those numbers?

 

I didn't think so.

 

Your statement about AMA=monopoly is not quite correct. In the early years of the Twentieth Century, a US Congressman passed a bill specifically excluding homeopathic, "natural", and "food supplement" medicines from scrutiny by the newly founded Food and Drug Administration (FDA). I'll see if I can find his name.

 

So, in a sense, it is the "homeonat" medicines that have a "monopoly". They can sell whatever they want, and say anything they want, and the AMA cannot (BY LAW) stop them.

 

I'm not going to be swayed by anecdotes. There is no way to even vouchsafe that those stories have not been imbellished to some extent, since they were not observed and monitored under controlled conditions.

 

The Congessman you speak of is the Senator from Utah, I think.

 

The FDA waged war on doctors dispencing Natursal substances.

One of the original doctors was Johnathan Wright.

The FDA invaded his office with guns drawn and seized all his records and other equipment. I think this is why that law was passed outlawing this kind of enforcement. This is from news items I have read on occasion.

 

All the advanced research in medicine has proven that diseases are caused by difficiencies in vitamins and minerals. Examples :

 

Scurvy - Vitamin C deficiency.

Goiter - Iodine dif.

Blindness - Vitamin A dif.

Spinal Bifidia - Vitamin B5 dif.

 

And there are others, I am sure.

 

Can you name a disease that is caused by a drug difficiency? Ha ha.

 

Incidentally, another item in the JAMA says that 50% of the operations are unnecassary.

 

Mike C

 

 

 

.

[Pyrotex]

...All the advanced research in medicine has proven that diseases are caused by difficiencies in vitamins and minerals. Examples :

 

Scurvy - Vitamin C deficiency.

Goiter - Iodine dif.

Blindness - Vitamin A dif.

Spinal Bifidia - Vitamin B5 dif.

 

Can you name a disease that is caused by a drug difficiency?...

Your first statement is wrong. Painfully wrong. So far wrong, it's not even in the "ballpark" of ordinary, every-day wrong. Most diseases are caused by:

 

INFECTIONS BY MICRO-ORGANISMS.

 

Blindness has MANY causes, including infections.

 

We now know that many other diseases are caused by (or enabled by) genetic factors -- errors in our DNA.

 

At least one type of Diabetes is caused by difficiency of Insulin. Insulin is the drug used to treat that type of Diabetes. Therefore, one could say the disease is caused by a drug difficiency. But a better answer is this: Your question is irrational. No one is claiming that diseases are caused by drug difficiencies. You're being silly.

[Mike C]

I read the statistics. The statistic, as I recall is for those that died as a result of errors/complications. This included incorrect doses, wrong type of drug, allergies to drugs, etc.

I forget the 'rates' of deaths, Mike perhaps you have that information as well? How many people are saved each year due to the same medications and hospital treatments?

 

The Naturopathic doctors (they are doctors although some are educated in their own Universities) are the sources of most of my posts . They do examine the researches done in natural substances. So their knowledge is based on scientific researches.

Their own results with patients is also used as proofs of the natural treatments.

 

Those examples you cite above would probably include some errors of dispensing but that only proives that drugs are dangerous .

 

Ever hear of anyone dying of vitamin or mineral overdoses?

Extremely excessive overdoses can kill some people but I mean doses of 10x over the recommended amounts .

This rarely happens and I mean rarely.

 

Mike C